to M1 or not to M1?

[Mayfield, Lily]

Hello everyone,

Looking for some input...

I’m in the market for a new iMac. With the introduction of the new M1 chip with the MacBook, I’m wondering if I should hold out for the iMac with the M1 chip (probably coming out early/mid 2021) or just go ahead and buy the Intel version.  Apparently there are some compatibility issues with Adobe with the M1 chip.  Adobe says they will have updated for M1 at the end of this year or early 2021. 

Thoughts? What would you do?

Lily Mayfield, MFA
Adjunct Faculty, Photography
mayf...@cod.edu

[Christopher Hurley]

Hi Lily,

I purchased a new iMac last year 5k 27” 2019 3.1 GHz 6 Core Itel core i5 I put my own 64gb In it  and I love it.  Very fast

I heard possible issues with new chip but not sure.  The system cost me under 2000 thru ABT, they gave me 24 months no interest,  can’t beat that!!   Less memory upgrade I did via OWC.  I am happy.  I think apple is coming out with to many changes right now I might wait but up to you!! No issues so far

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[Alan Wolsky]

Dear Lily,

     I’ve been asking myself the same question. My from time to time 10 year old iMac has  behaved oddly, nothing catastrophic but nothing that Apple Care has been able to fix, either. So, I back up to an external drive. If and when bad things happen, I’ll be able to port my files to my iMac’s successor. My instinct is to wait for the new chip and the software upgrades that Adobe and others will announce so that my iMac’s successor won’t be deemed obsolete by Tech Support (e.g., Apple , Adobe, etc) two years after I buy it. I also expect (with no basis) that further IT miracles (for example, 3D) will become available and these miracles will require as much crunching power as is available, which makes the new chip desirable to me. Of course, all this is just my speculation.

    Replacement came up in a recentI phone call with one of Apple’s Senior Advisors while he was helping me with my present iMac. When he observed that Apple isn’t keen on supporting 10 year old iMacs but he’d help me anyway, I asked "why upgrade”? What’s wrong with fixing what I’ve got and just continuing doing my thing. He said that one of these days, I’d notice problems reaching some parts of the web because the world would upgrade its software while (due to hardware limitations) my OS would stay what it is now and the world’s software would gradually become incompatible with my OS. 

     He said, I could certainly run my machine forever, as long as I ran it as an isolated computer. This is an appealing thought; no one can hack a machine after it is disconnected from all others. So Financial records etc are safe. The only drawbacks I see is my lack of space for two desktops and the inconvenience of securely moving data from a plugged in machine to the otherwise isolated machine.

     

               Hope this helps,

               Alan

On Nov 17, 2020, at 8:12 PM, Mayfield, Lily <mayf...@cod.edu> wrote:

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[wiegan...@gmail.com]

Hi all,

From what I've heard the M1 Chip (over what is on laptops) is offering a noticeable but small performance boost even in non-optimized applications (like photoshop) via the emulation they are using. For optimized applications, people are noting a sizeable boost to performance, but as the majority of tests have been on the laptop versions, the biggest change everyone is noting is the massive battery life improvements seen when using optimized apps. (I think this video covers it nicely without getting too techy https://youtu.be/f4g2nPY-VZc?t=67)

So if you are looking to upgrade it will offer a performance boost over the more traditional intel machines (at an increased cost of course) with more coming in the future.  Just be careful and don't fully switch over until you make sure everything works, apparently some minor apps have compatibility issues. (one other thing to note is because RAM is all part of the M1 chip there will be NO aftermarket RAM upgrades, something that usually was very easy to do on an iMac) 

Another option that could be considered, if your someone willing to get a bit hands-on with the computer, is a "Hackintosh." That is taking off the shelf parts, assembling them, and running Mac OS on them, it can often offer a MASSIVE performance boost over even top-end machines at a fraction of the cost. It of course isn't without its own hiccups as you have to build it yourself and some of the integration between other apple products may be slightly limited.  (Here is a video covering this option https://youtu.be/l_QPLl81GrY it is a bit of a handful but the performance is impressive) 

So in short: they currently seem to be faster, with less thermal throttling and minimal growing pains and should get better down the line. But if you can, might be worth waiting for M2 to make sure it all works out. 

[Adam Lee]

Hi Lily,

Regarding your question there are some things to consider. Moving from an Intel based platform to an ARm-based platform may present some problems.

If you intend on purchasing the M1 processor in the new computer, you may want to verify that ALL your applications will be supported on that CPU and the timeframe if it is not supported. This is similar to buying a newly released camera and you want to import raw files in Lightroom to edit, but Adobe has not updated ACR to support the new camera's raw file format. The end result is it will work when Adobe releases an updated Camera Raw, but in the meantime you have to wait, or change your workflow by converting raw files to a file format that can be imported.

That being said, I am not one to be bleeding edge with OS updates and application updates as soon as they come out. I tend to be a month or two behind, as I rather not have to deal with new bugs or changes that could impact my ability to use my computer as needed.

Ultimately, it would be your decision which CPU to get. Depending upon your circumstances and what you have stated possible release date, can you still use your current iMac until the M1 has been out and used by bleeding edge users? That could be another 6 months to wait and see how those users fared with it. 

One thing you do know would be that the Intel platform, everything should work as that is what you are using now.

If you really want to dig into comparing Intel vs M1 (ARM)... you can read this article that explains things very well and also mentions how they work at a high level.

https://www.androidauthority.com/arm-vs-x86-key-differences-explained-568718/

This may be more than you wanted to read tech-wise, but should help you understand why it can be so hard to make recommendations about computers. Unfortunately it's not just the CPU, although it plays a large part of it, but also the rest of the platform architecture that determines what is best. What is best for you is determined by what you use your computer for and by priority the type of work you expect to accomplish. A content creator (which I expect us photographers are) and a gamer would have similar goals but you would not necessarily need a very high-end gaming class platform to accomplish the work. My computers were chosen for workstation class capability, while they are not the speediest at 4 years old they have been reliable and works well.

HTH, somehow.

Adam

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[Mayfield, Lily]

Thanks everyone for the input!  I really appreciate it! 

Alan - I’m in a similar situation working with a 10 year old iMac.  It works perfectly fine with Lightroom and Photoshop and teaching via Zoom.  But I can’t upgrade my OS anymore which has prevented me from being able to update to the newest version of Lightroom (which some of my students are now using). And I’m now running into issues where I can’t open catalogs from students who have the newer version of Lightroom. My solution has been for those students to turn in jpg files, but I prefer to see their catalogs for grading.

It’s frustrating.  And I’m worried if I buy the 2020 iMac that it will become obsolete in a few years once the M1 chip becomes standard.  

Unfortunately with needing to teach and work from home, I feel like I don’t have much choice but to buy an iMac now. 

Thanks again everyone! Let me know if you have any other bright ideas!

Best, 

Lily

Lily Mayfield, MFA

Adjunct Faculty, Photography

mayf...@cod.edu

On Nov 18, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Adam Lee <alee...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Adam Lee]

Lily,

I would not worry too much about end of life support for a computer that you purchase today versus waiting for the M1 based computer. You will still be part of a larger Intel user base of their product line. I have added a link for their lifecycle statement for you to review.

Their official lifecycle statement is typical in terms of technology products (5 years support and up to 7 years depending upon availability of parts). You may be able to find support after the 7 years depending upon parts, OS, software availability from 3rd party sources (resellers). 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624#:~:text=Owners%20of%20iPhone%2C%20iPad%2C%20iPod,for%20certain%20technologically%20obsolete%20products.

Sue has a vintage iPod video 30GB that hasn't been used in years. I looked online to see if I could find a replacement battery. I was amazed to find batteries AND that there are memory upgrades that will allow me to use microsd cards in place of the hard drive (up to 1 TB total capacity, if I wanted to)!

Adam

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[Mayfield, Lily]

Thanks again Adam for the info.  Vintage iPods... ha!  Well at least you can still use it!

Lily Mayfield, MFA

Adjunct Faculty, Photography

mayf...@cod.edu

On Nov 19, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Adam Lee <alee...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mike Neville]

Hi Lily,

You may find this article just published interesting - it’s an in-depth review of the mini but much applies to new MacBook as well.  Concluded performance is fantastic, Rosetta actually works well, but integration with iOS apps needs a lot of work. 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/mac-mini-and-apple-silicon-m1-review-not-so-crazy-after-all/

Mike

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[Mayfield, Lily]

Thanks everyone!  You might be happy to know I went ahead and ordered the 2020 27" iMac.  I plan to install 64 gb of ram myself.  So I have one more question: is it better to order 4x16gb or 2x32gb of ram? I see mixed information online.

Thanks again!  This photo group is a great resource of highly knowledgable tech-y folks!  I appreciate you all.

Lily Mayfield, MFA
Adjunct Faculty, Photography
mayf...@cod.edu

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Subject: Re: [cod-photolist] to M1 or not to M1?

 

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[Christopher Schneberger]

Lily,

I'm in the same boat as you. I've got a mid-2010 MacPro tower that I can't upgrade to Mojave, and that prevents me from updating to LrC v.10 which some of my students are using (despite my pleas to not update, and to downgrade if they have). It's possible that I could install a Metal-compatible graphics card which would allow updating to Mojave, but that would run $200 or so, and a new M1 Mac Mini would only be $700 - $880 (if I got the additional RAM version). 

For now, my MacBook Pro does use Mojave, so I will be using that to run LrC v.10 and grade student work. Just not my preference.

Best,

Chris

[Miles Boone]

Chris,

Be aware that the metal-compatible graphics card upgrade is no longer an option for my mid 2012 Mac Pro running on High Sierra.  It was an option before the latest os, but it isn’t and that computer is officially at a dead end.

Miles

Miles Boone Photography, LLC

mi...@milesboonephotography.com

 www.milesboonephotography.com

              PH. 630.294.8022

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[Adam Lee]

Lily,

It depends upon how many memory slots are in the machine and how Apple decided to populate the memory slots with the amount of memory you ordered. If it has 16 or 32 GB installed would determine what you need to do or if you are going to swap itbout entirely (per the next paragraph).

PC manufacturers loved to fully populate the slots in a pc utulizing the lower density memory sticks. End result is having to buy a memory upgrade that left you with some memory that you can't use or have to turn around and sell.

If you can find a service or owners manual online for the machine, you should be able to find out the info mentioned above. It shoukd also have recommendations for memory specifications that you should follow. I would do it for you, but am currently mobile (much easier dine via my desktop computer!).

If you are lucky Apple will have used the higher density memory and left some slots open for you to add more to get to 64GB.

BTW, I think you made the right choice, since Adobe products will always use as much memory as it can.

Adam Lee

alee...@gmail.com

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From: "Mayfield, Lily"
Sent: Fri Nov 20 11:03:43 CST 2020

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[Adam Lee]

Lily,

I ran across this article this morning and thought you might like to read it knowing you made the best choice based on the information presented (IMO).

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/apple-silicon-mac-mini-vs-intel-mac-mini/

Adam

[Mayfield, Lily]

Thanks Adam for all the great links and info.  Regarding the ram, the iMac has 4 slots.  I always thought it was better to fill all slots with the same amount of ram but apparently that isn't necessarily true.  Some suggest filling only 2 slots with 32gb ram (64 gb total) and then leaving the other slots empty for a possible future upgrade to 128 gb total ram. 

I guess either way it works fine.  I think I might try the 2x32gb ram just to allow for future upgrades if I think I need more ram at some point.

Chris - I feel your pain.  I feel like my 10 year old iMac was forced into obsolescence.  It still works well overall.  I'm planning to pass it onto my husband who can use it for recording music.  He doesn't necessarily need the newest OS for that.

Lily Mayfield, MFA
Adjunct Faculty, Photography
mayf...@cod.edu

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From: codphotogr...@googlegroups.com <codphotogr...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Adam Lee <alee...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 8:17:05 AM

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[Adam Lee]

Lily,

You are welcome! 

The suggestion to utilize 2 slots with 32gb ram (64 gb total) and then leaving the other slots empty for a possible future upgrade to 128 gb total ram would be an advantage!

The advantage would be that if you decide to add more memory, hopefully the prices for the memory would be less expensive. Should you go this route make sure that you keep all the specs for the memory sticks you purchased. All the memory cards sticks specifications clock speed should match across the entire installed memory. If one set of  installed memory is slower in clock speed (typically 2 memory sticks = 1 bank)  then the computer will access all the memory at the slower clock speed between the two banks. This should also be noted in the manual for memory specs.

Adam

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