Liquid Investments - Brazil

[James]

Hi,

Does anyone know what happened to Liquid Investments who were establishing a large scale coconut plantation in Brazil?   FYI - Liquid investments was started by a couple of British guys whereby they sold set allotments of their coconut plantation to international investors.   The reason I ask is that the company website looks like it has been closed which would indicate the company is no longer operating.      

[Vinay Chand]

James,

 

I kept a watch on it initially but it was so unviable that I could not see how it was a straight proposition.

 

Vinay Chand
www.ruraldevelopment.info
Tel: +44 20 77945977

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coconut" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to coconut+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Doug DuBosque]

Unviable? Interesting, that wasn't the conclusion of Jim Rogers, who I'm going to guess has a little more experience in such things. I was at the conference in Fortaleeza in late 2014 when he toured the plantations. It is the execution of the plan that's an ongoing struggle, simply because Brazil is one of the most convoluted countries on earth to do business.

In early 2015, the project moved into its planned next phase, targeting institutional investors. The original individual investors are still invested, but the project itself has scaled up, and no more individuals are allowed in. Perfectly logical. The current web site is unique-management.com.

[Cocoman]

Well, I must say Doug is completely right.

Project was feasible but in my point of view they associated to the wrong people in Brazil.

Added to that there is a severe drought going on for the past 4 years in the region they chose to invest.

Other mistake in my point of view was to start the coconut plantations without installing the irrigation system firstly - I heard they lost the whole first plantation.

As anywhere there is a learning curve that must be taken into account. My guess is that they are more mature now and things are going go get back to track.

I also heard they are targeting investments to some local coconut companies. 

Best Regards and a wonderful 2016 to all.

[Vinay Chand]

I remain sceptical. There is a long history of plans to invest in coconut plantations and Unilever Plantations is perhaps the best example. They were producing over 120 million hybrid nuts per annum and could even do tissue culture Macapuno in probably the most advanced research facility on coconuts that has ever existed. Coconuts are a smallholder crop because of the implications of the value chain for coconut oil, over 95% of global plantings are smallholdings. There has to be a logic behind that historical global outcome. The rate of return on copra nuts is poor. If I saw an intention to move away from that oil orientation, I may think differently. Viability depends on the value of the nuts, not on willingness to learn about plantation economics all over again. The oil value chain ends up with a price of around 2 US cents per nut for the vast majority of the copra coconuts in the world. You cannot defy the laws of gravity in world markets. I see there is a shared focus on Neem in Brazil and that may be more interesting.

 

A shortened value chain, hybrids and irrigation do not compensate enough for higher plantation costs as Unilever found out decades ago. Smallholders sell copra nuts below production cost as marginal revenue. There is more money in processing and marketing than in growing coconuts. Prodution economics in new investments in Brazil in plantations for oil can only be a small fraction of production in Philippines, Indonesia and India. But if like Jim Rogers you dont think India will exist in its present form by 2030, I suppose defying gravity is a cinch.

 

Despite the fact that things have obviously not gone so well yet, I wish them luck. Perhaps they could consider high value products in an integrated system (not diesel substitute at todays prices), that may be more viable.

 

Happy New Year to all,

 

Vinay Chand
www.ruraldevelopment.info
Tel: +44 20 77945977

--

[Christoph Roth]

with material planted decades ago, you had a yield of 60 to 100 nuts per tree… today we’re at 250+ nuts per tree (no irrigation) at 200 gram of copra meat per nut !… metrics have changed

yet agreed a sound mix of products is imperative - coconut provide all the opportunities in itself, homework has to be done!

Chris

[Richard Illingworth]

Dear Group
Vinay and Dulce got it right.
Chris's palm producing 250+ nuts (p.a.) must be seen, but cannot be plantation average.
Yours
Richard

-- 
Richard Illingworth, Pres.
Costa Rica Cricket Federation
San José, Costa Rica
Tel +506 2268 2903
Mob +506 8981 7710

[Ed Hartz]

Jim:

You might try calling Richard Illingworth. See what he knows. Don't say too much. But maybe he might be interested to work with s. Fish around for some answers and see if he is honest and interested, first.

See his notations below…………….

Richard Illingworth, Pres.
Costa Rica Cricket Federation
San José, Costa Rica
Tel +506 2268 2903
Mob +506 8981 7710

Ed

[Cocoman]

Dear Mr. Chand

Brazil is a bit odd compared to other coconut producer countries.

Virgin Coconut Oil had its moment 2 years ago, but now it's just a delicacy with a very selective market while RBD and other non-edible coconut oil are not made from copra but from paring skin that is a by-product of the desiccated coconut industry.

Therefore coconuts in Brazil have mainly 2 uses: desiccated coconut (with coconut milk being a by-product) and coconut water.

 

I bet the focus of Unique is coconut water as I heard they are planting the dwarf variety.

Dwarf variety with a proper irrigation system in Brazil yields from 250 to 300 nuts per year so it would make the project feasible.

Again, dwarf coconut plantations in Brazil are viable but not an easy business due to the local culture of "everything delays for some reason or for no reason". 

Investors might think in an integrated farm-factory business to add value to the project and I guess Unique already had this perception.

Regards,

Giovani

[Vinay Chand]

Dear Giovanni,

 

you raise very interesting points. Paring oil will always be a useful by-product but adds a minor revenue only.

 

DC and milk and mature water are a very viable combination that allow a higher price for nuts than does copra. Leading producers in Philippines and Indonesia are upgrading their processing to maximise returns. You can pay 10 cents per nut for DC and milk, maybe a shade more. But even 10 cents per nut is a poor return on land.

 

On their web site Unique still talk about coconut oil. If they stick to DC and milk and mature water it is viable. They dont even need 250 nuts per tree which individual trees can give but has never been a plantation average or everybody would have done it. I am sorry but I cannot take it seriously. Many such claims have been made elsewhere in the past. 250 nuts per tree would also increase return per ha if used for copra/oil but not even to DC level and would be unviable. You have to process husks as well which Unique do not mention. Unique appear very weak on marketing to me.

 

An integrated coconut process which say produced milk, mature water, rubberised coir, activated carbon would be very profitable but the profits would be in the marketing and not the plantation. Outsiders coming to coconuts are always tempted by an integrated approach meaning farms, processing and trading but they often do not fully understand the economics of it. The emphasis is placed on controlling or ensuring supply instead of on how they use the coconuts. Typical for financial people.

 

There is no shortage of coconuts in the world. We have 70 billion a year and rising. Over 10% are even not harvested due to site cost peculiarities. But half are used for low value uses and could be moved to higher value if the markets are developed.

 

 Best wishes,

[Vinay Chand]

Dear Giovanni,

 

you raise very interesting points. Paring oil will always be a useful by-product but adds a minor revenue only.

 

DC and milk and mature water are a very viable combination that allow a higher price for nuts than does copra. Leading producers in Philippines and Indonesia are upgrading their processing to maximise returns. You can pay 10 cents per nut for DC and milk, maybe a shade more. But even 10 cents per nut is a poor return on land.

 

On their web site Unique still talk about coconut oil. If they stick to DC and milk and mature water it is viable. They dont even need 250 nuts per tree which individual trees can give but has never been a plantation average or everybody would have done it. I am sorry but I cannot take it seriously. Many such claims have been made elsewhere in the past. 250 nuts per tree would also increase return per ha if used for copra/oil but not even to DC level and would be unviable. You have to process husks as well which Unique do not mention. Unique appear very weak on marketing to me.

 

An integrated coconut process which say produced milk, mature water, rubberised coir, activated carbon would be very profitable but the profits would be in the marketing and not the plantation. Outsiders coming to coconuts are always tempted by an integrated approach meaning farms, processing and trading but they often do not fully understand the economics of it. The emphasis is placed on controlling or ensuring supply instead of on how they use the coconuts. Typical for financial people.

 

There is no shortage of coconuts in the world. We have 70 billion a year and rising. Over 10% are even not harvested due to site cost peculiarities. But half are used for low value uses and could be moved to higher value if the markets are developed.

 

 Best wishes,

 

Vinay Chand
www.ruraldevelopment.info
Tel: +44 20 77945977

----- Original Message -----

From: Cocoman

To: Coconut

Sent: 07 January 2016 11:40

[Cocoman]

Dear Mr. Chand

You ignored the main point: coconuts in Brazil are for water mainly, therefore main crops are of dwarf variety.

If we were talking about tall or hybrids I would agree with you, but that's not the case over here.

Said that, in the north-west of Brazil where there is a good climate-soil condition (now with the drought problem), it is perfectly - and I saw myself -

possible to yield 250 to 300 in the whole plantation.

The palms produce 13 to 15 inflorescences per year with an average of 20 coconuts per bunch. 

Today (summer in the south of Brazil) there is a lack of coconuts for water mainly sold by the beach, and prices per unit at the farm are sold at R$1,20 ($0,30). Medium price along the year is R$0,50(R$0,13). This is taking into account exchange rates of BRL-USD are the highest in the history and doubled in 1 year.

Cost of production per nut is around $0,07.

Provided all these numbers you can do the homework.

Best Regards,

Giovani

[Vinay Chand]

Dear Giovani, Divinia, and Luiz,

 

Coconuts are divided between a fresh market and for processing. Around 40% are consumed fresh often without payment, sometimes on a commercial basis. When they are sold for money it is a good price and there is no dispute where there is a commercial demand, producing drinking nuts will always be viable. The prices in Brazil are no different from those in many other countries. Some have higher prices.

 

The best conditions for coconuts are to be found in the region including Sulawesi, Mindanao and Riau, accounting for over 25% of global production. My first Mission to the Philippines was at the behest of the PCA 35 years ago (to develop a high value product strategy) who were given two loans from the World Bank for hundreds of millions of dollars to implement a plan to triple coconut production in the country based on the yields of the MAWA hybrid. It was of course nonsense.

 

The prospect for high yields excited me too until I was told by a leading coconut agronomist that it was not unusual to have 250 or more coconuts on a palm but not at harvesting let alone as an average. I know there can be many early stage coconuts on palms and I know very high yield rates can be achieved under test conditions but you must consider that if it were possible the only real proof would be in the field and would be reflected in statistics. So despite current claims from Brazil, India and Belize I remain sceptical.

 

If through some miracle it was possible to tripple coconut yields, two things would happen: the world market price would collapse and if used for low value uses they would still be unviable and a poor rate of return for land. Instead of a $100 per ha for copra nuts, even if we were to tripple it to $300 per ha, it would make no difference.

 

Drinking fresh green nuts is fantastic. It all depends on how many in coconut regions in urban concentrations want to drink them but out of 3 billion coconuts in Brazil, I am sure that not one billion are being consumed in that fashion as Luiz agrees.

 

Giovanni estimates production cost at 7 cents per coconut in Brazil compared to under 2 in much of Asia and the Pacific. Selling for fresh consumption is fine, for copra oil it does not make financial sense. The thinking has to start with markets not yield rates. We have to develop markets for high value products now that we have exploited the easy part of the market. Too many development aid people at the UN and in the EC are still wedded to a perceived need to educate farmers to plant the right varieties more quickly, that makes bureaucratic sense but is not business. 

[Gerson Machado]

Vinay,

Agroecology or permaculture programmes worldwide, Sustainable sugarcane initiative in India, various organic farms or other research initiatives concerned with vital soil, vital plants and vital health have shown that doubling to more than tripling yields in agriculture (sustainably) is very feasible. If one adds perhaps less known technologies like structured water irrigation, sound and light stimulation, energetic balancing/radionics, etc, natural immunity, this can be improved further to very significant numbers. All the pieces are out there, but few integrate the research or connect the dots. Improving yield sustainably (and not via means based ultimately on lobby from the oil industry --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySnk-f2ThpE) is as valid a business strategy as is working on value-add products on multiple verticalised chains in 'blue-economy'-style, ideally one wants all strategies. Higher yield does not automatically cause price collapse, that logic is flawed as too many other variables are at play including the time it takes for various to adopt it, the wider reach (volume demand) from a lower realisable supply price, other balancing costs including logistics, verticalisation or not, geographical/natural matters etc. The ideal business should consider all aspects of its production and distribution chain, and not exclude one or the other, albeit of course there would be nothing wrong with prioritising farmer education and industrial value-add as potentially bringing more returns shorter term. 

Rgds

Gerson Machado

Brazil/UK

[Roland BOURDEIX]

Dear colleagues,

 

Do you have any idea about agricultural and/or traditional practices for reducing the vertical growth of Tall-type coconut palms? We found such a practice in Vietnam, and we would like to know if other techniques are used in other countries.

 

A traditional practice from farmers of the Mekong Delta

 

In 1998, in the framework of an expertise on collecting strategies (Bourdeix et al, 1999[i]), the island of Hung Phong (01008N 10622E) in Mekong Delta was visited. While interacting with farmers, it appeared that what farmers called “Dwarf’ and “Tall” coconut palms did not fit with what was described in all other countries. More precisely, some coconut palms described by farmers as “Tall-types” had the typical stem of what is normally called “Dwarf”: a thin stem without any basal bulb, and very short internodes.

We finally find an explanation (see fig. 1 and 2). In this island, farmers had a very special traditional practice, never described before (as far as we know).

 

When 2 years old, the young tall coconut palm is removed from the ground, its roots and leaves are cut and, after that, the palm is planted again in the ground. Such palm will develop stem similar to those of Dwarf cultivars: no bole, very short internode distance and slow vertical growth. Farmers said that this practice causes a delay of about one year on the starting of production but does not affect the future performance of the palms.

 

It could be very useful to to scientifically assess this traditional practice, for both extending the lifespan of accessions in ex situ Coconut field genebanks, and for proposing a new ways of cultivation making harvest and field management more convenient and safe.

 

Links to figures: http://coconutvietnam.blogspot.fr/2016/01/coconut-bonzai-reducing-vertical-growth.html

 

Kind regards

 

Roland

 

 

[Hengky Novarianto]

Dear Roland,

This information is the first for me, and I think this technology is very important for practice and improve that technology in the future. Because now farmers and other stakeholders want the perennial crop, not only coconut is short trunk ,and slowly growth. I'm want to see the picture, but when I open they ask the email address. I put my email, but the response is wrong address? Can you send me the picture with another way?

Dr.Roland, after 2 years yous mention that farmer remove from ground, and cutting the root and leaves. How long the root cut, and how about the leaves, all leave and how long too.

Thank you, and I'm very appreciate for your response.

Best regards,

Hengky Novarianto

Senior scientist of IPRI

Manado

Indonbesia

[Roland BOURDEIX]

Dear Hengky,

 

Nice to hear you again. I apologize, I had to change the setting and now this is working: to connect to the site where are the pictures, you simply have to get a Google account and then you can reach the information:

 

Links to figures: http://coconutvietnam.blogspot.fr/2016/01/coconut-bonzai-reducing-vertical-growth.html

 

Kind regards

 

Roland

 

[Roland BOURDEIX]

Dear Colleagues,

 

I have recently been invited to participate in a TV show named "On n’est pas que des cobayes” on the theme: "How to break a coconut with bare hand?". This popular scientific show from the France 5 Channel will be broadcast the Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 7pm (Paris hour) in France. They made plenty of tests related to resistance and hardness of cococnut. More details on the website:

 

http://www.france5.fr/emissions/on-n-est-pas-que-des-cobayes/diffusions

 

In my video, I show a traditional Polynesian technique which was not filmed in the TV show. This technique well allows a normal man to break a coconut with bare hand. Indeed, a man can do it, but what about a woman? Please check it in the video ...

 

 

Please follow one of these links :

 

https://www.facebook.com/diversiflora/

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk5fZltdkTVRhvcPKijNNZ7Mq8b7ZZx3Y

 

Kind regards,

 

Roland

[Hengky Novarianto]

Thanks Roland Dikirim dari Yahoo Mail pada Android Dari:"Roland BOURDEIX" <roland....@cirad.fr> Tanggal:Rab, 13 Jan 2016 pada 12:07 Judul:Re: [Coconut:6870] Reducing the vertical growth of Tall-type coconut palms

[Cleso Antônio Patto Pacheco]

Dear Dr. Bourdeix ,

 I'ts very interesting. 

After this publication: http://coconutvietnam.blogspot.com.br/2016/01/coconut-bonzai-reducing-vertical-growth.html

you got to test the technique to see if it works in other conditions ?

Best regards.

Cleso

[Roland BOURDEIX]

Dear Cleso,

 

With IOOP we wrote a small project on this subject. We submitted this project to an internal call for funding in CIRAD. We do not know if it will be successful, as this call is very competitive. But anyway, we also prepared a small movie to demonstrate the most common technique used in Ben Tre Province. Final version of this movie will be released online within a month.

 

Another way for reducing the growth of Tall type coconut palm could be chemical, by using growth regulators and hormones such as auxins, gibberellins, etc... These chemicals could be injected in the stem at the right stage in order to see if they can reduce the vertical growth of Tall type coconut palms. The first step could be to make a complete bibliographic analyse of similar works conducted on other palms and plants; an then, somewhere in the world, to test it at true scale on coconut palms in the fields of a research centre. Unfortunately, I have presently no time for that. This could be a good subject for a Phd student, for instance. I could be interested in following such a student together with her/his national supervisors.

 

Kind regards

 

Roland

 

---

--