No bird seed allowed at BCLP? No fair! How dare they!

[Joe Roller]

Dismayed at the officiousness of the Bear Creek Lake Park rangers, I worked up my indignation and managed to find a "work-around."

After many phone-calls and emails, I established contact with the three nuns (Sister Anne Marie, Sister Elizabeth and Sister Bernadette) who visited the Park the other day. They agreed 

to take a big bag of birdseed to the Brambling hangout tomorrow. Too busy today. Others will have to sneak some (seed, not nuns) into the park

on other days. 

If you missed rebelling in the sixties and did not burn your draft card, here is your chance to step

forward into the exciting world of civil disobedience!

Three of us are signed up so far to either go your bail or visit you in jail.

Joe Roller, 

Denver

[Paul Hurtado]

Alternatively, it would be a big win for the birding community if we could get the park to reverse the new 'no seed' policy.  Do we even know why they put the sign up?? If it's a matter of observers breaking park rules, we can help make sure those rules get enforced (yes, even for nuns).  If it's a matter of not feeding wildlife, we have plenty of other parks and refuges that put out seed for birds.

Have any of the local/regional birding organizations tried to work with the park to set some mutually acceptable ground rules that would allow birders to put down seed?? 

The masses are getting restless ;-)

Good birding,
Paul Hurtado
 

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[elena]

As a veteran of non-violent civil disobedience with a short record of arrests for peace and justice efforts to prove it, I encourage folks to be respectful and also follow their nose for common sense (and unusual birds). Free the birdseed!!!!!   Long live the brambling, and anyone else who wants to eat illegal seeds!!!! -Elena Klaver

[Ira Sanders]

I'm unclear here. Is Jim equating putting out seed for the birds at Bear Creek with killing a small dog of a property owner?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not aware that putting out seed for birds is a violation of the ABA code of ethics. Harassing birds is clearly against the code of ethics but that isn't happening here.  I'm not aware of anyone stalking this bird when in fact bicycle riders and hikers are constantly traversing the bridge where the bird is seen.

I certainly abide by the ABA code of ethics but when a rule is silly, it should be seen for what it really is.  Dumb.

Ira Sanders

Golden, CO

and yes, 1 of the requirements of this list serve is to sign your name.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Jim Dandy <jimda...@gmail.com> wrote:

Situational ethics alive and well.  Civil disobedience is standing up for what you believe to be unjust to society.  It's not breaking the rules just so that you can add a bird to your life list. Nor is it asking nuns to do your dirty work for you.

I see lots of posts here and on other birding lists along the lines of "Please, if  you come to see XYZ, respect the property owner and don't trample his grass or kill his small barking dog".  But I guess if it's a good bird, say goodbye to the dog!

What is the CFO position on this?

I've lurked here for years and joined this list specifically to post this.  I hope the list owners don't see fit to terminate me for this; that would say a lot in and of itself.

On Friday, November 23, 2012 11:03:01 AM UTC-7, Joe Roller wrote:

Dismayed at the officiousness of the Bear Creek Lake Park rangers, I worked up my indignation and managed to find a "work-around."

After many phone-calls and emails, I established contact with the three nuns (Sister Anne Marie, Sister Elizabeth and Sister Bernadette) who visited the Park the other day. They agreed 

to take a big bag of birdseed to the Brambling hangout tomorrow. Too busy today. Others will have to sneak some (seed, not nuns) into the park

on other days. 

If you missed rebelling in the sixties and did not burn your draft card, here is your chance to step

forward into the exciting world of civil disobedience!

Three of us are signed up so far to either go your bail or visit you in jail.

Joe Roller, 

Denver

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[Wayne Wathen]

I assume no one has been given a rationale for the "no bird seed" regulation.  The only rationale that I can think of is that there has been a huge problem in the U.S. and other
parts of the world with noxious weeds as well as critters reaching the U.S. both accidently and introduced on purpose.  I would think that bird seed should not be included but sometimes
other seeds not so nice could be mixed in with the bird seed causing or possibly causing problems in the park.  Seems like that is a possibility.  Perhaps, we birders could agree to monitor
the area after the Brambling leaves, especially this Spring to make sure it doesn't happen.  Just a thought to keep seeming this wonderful bird in Colorado.
 
Wayne Wathen
Highlands Ranch

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From: zroadr...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:55:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Re: No bird seed allowed at BCLP? No fair! How dare they!
To: jimda...@gmail.com
CC: cob...@googlegroups.com

[Eric DeFonso]

The ABA code of ethics is pretty clear (see Sec 2(b)) about violating rules and regulations, which in this case seem to prohibit the feeding of animals in the park. Maybe the park rule in question is "dumb" (and I'm inclined to agree), but it's a rule all the same, and until it is changed I am a bit uncomfortable seeing rule-breaking being advocated in this way. I much prefer Paul Hurtado's approach of constructive engagement (which would indeed be real forward progress here) as opposed to encouraging selfish rule-breaking as some kind of official or even unofficial CFO policy. We have to remember that we are all ambassadors for birding, and that it's occasions like this where we can show non-birders that we are willing to share resources responsibly.

--
Eric DeFonso
Boulder, CO

[Alison Kondler]

I can see the parks side on this. Feeding wildlife can cause an imbalance in the ecosystem. The problem with bird seed is that not only birds eat it. Rodents especially love it. A few years ago I saw a gigantic rat in BCLP! OK, so we're attracting rodents. Now think of what animals eat rodents? Yay, more raptors, not a bad thing to have more of. But, now think of the big predators coming into the park and how it would effect all human visitors there. Coyotes live there, fine, butl they can still be a danger. Bears, it may still be warm enough to attract them. But, the big guns that are attracted to rodents are mountain lions. Yes, the odds are low, but...

My thoughts: If you haven't see the brambling yet, GO NOW! Let's respect the park and be gracious to have it there in the first place. We need to paint birders in a good light and show that we are responsible people who are supporters of wildlife and their precious habitats.

Alison Kondler
Jefferson County CO

[Jim Dandy]

Not specifically.  But I guess what you're saying is, because it's ok to feed birds according to the ABA, it's ok to ignore the park rules.  Or by extension property owner rules.   It may be a silly rule, but it's one that is levied by the park, for reasons unknown to you.

So you can either ignore the rule or abide by it, but the hypocrisy of abiding by an "ABA rule of ethics" in the face of disregard for the property owner rules, should be recognized for what it is.  And trying to skirt your way around it  is just goofy

And please... to elevate any of this to the level of "civil disobedience", especially in having nuns do it for you (!!!) is not only ludicrous, but is also an afront to those people that have given up everything in the name of social justice.

I'm appalled by listers, time and again.  This the last I'll say on the subject.  

[Holly Reinhard]

Hello birders,

I am no longer in Colorado, but haven't unsubscribed from the list yet. I have been following this thread with interest, and I have to say I am in absolute 100% agreement with those who say that breaking a rule that you feel is "stupid", just to have better chances to see a bird, is certainly not on par with "civil disobedience", such as sit-ins to end injustices against whole groups of people.

I also entirely agree with those who say that we as birders want to portray ourselves in the most positive light possible. Breaking a "stupid" rule is not going to endear ourselves to anyone, and in addition to fostering resentful feelings against birders at this park and/or other areas where birders break the rules in order to add to their lists, news of this sort of thing will spread. When I worked at a grocery store a while back, we had a training in which they told us something along the lines of that you must provide outstanding customer service about 10 times in order for one person to tell his/her friends, but if you provide crummy customer service once, the person will tell 10 other people. My point is, unfortunately, people are more likely to share bad news than good news, and negative feelings and experiences more than positive.

Sure we've all made mistakes. But let's try to respect rules and also not encourage others to break them, and by doing, risk offending those who are playing host to this special bird.

Sincerely,

Holly Reinhard
Laredo, TX (formerly Hayden [Routt county], Colorado)

[Linda Paulsen]

I agree. Linda Paulsen Lamar

[Larry Griffin]

I needed to get my two- cents worth in on this thread. One would think
the Bear Creek Lake Park management would recognize and appreciate the
obvious economic windfall we birders have brought to the Park in order
to see the brambling. Has anyone approached management to learn their
reasons for the feeding ban, and to point out the potential loss of
additional entrance fees from birders?

Larry Griffin
Ft. Collins

[Linda Paulsen]

Rules are rules. You can look up the rules concerning baiting in the
parks in Colorado. Linda Paulsen Lamar CO

[steven...@comcast.net]

I've never seen a Mountain Lion. Would it be ethical to stake out the neighbor's small dog to try and attract one? Steve Larson

Northglenn, CO

---

From: "Alison Kondler" <birdin...@msn.com>
To: cob...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 12:30:07 PM
Subject: [cobirds] No bird seed allowed at BCLP? No fair! How dare they! COMMENT.

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[Eric DeFonso]

By the way, it is equally ludicrous (and lazy, frankly) to smear all "listers" as continually seeking to violate good birding ethics. There are plenty of us who list and who also do right by the code.

[Dave Cameron]

To address the "rules are rules" thought, I'd ask, was this a rule at BCLP prior to today, or did the park react to the influx of birders seeking the Brambling to create and post a single sign?  If the latter, why?  Is there a real problem resulting from the seed that seems to be getting eaten primarily by Tree Sparrows?  Red Rocks doesn't seem to be suffering any adverse effects from all the seed we put out there....

 

If it's always been a rule, then we should all consider ourselves lucky to have had a heightened advantage with the Brambling due to the seed, and stop putting it out. 

 

In either case, one might point out to the park management that the special nature of such a rarity not only might justify permitting the spreading of seed, but also that the special nature of such a rarity has probably increased park revenues by close to a grand in the last few days.  Special circumstances + lots of cash might = special consideration.

 

And yes, as Ira said, you're required to sign your name here.

 

Dave Cameron

Denver