Disturbing bird incident

[Ira Sanders]

This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose, but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of it's foot.  

My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.  

The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water was a good idea at all.

In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.

--

Ira Sanders

Golden, CO

"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

[Mary Keithler]

Hi Ira and birders,

Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.  

Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Christy P]

You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future. 

Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.

Christy Payne

Wheat Ridge

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[Jane Pedersen]

Ira and Tammy--if it would make you feel any better, we trapped a very healthy hummingbird this summer at our project that only had one functional leg.  She seemed to be doing just fine in spite of her limitations.  Birds can be incredibly adaptable. 

Jane

Durango

Jane Pedersen

Jane...@aol.com

[Jeff Parks]

Hi all-

A little science background on this situation might be helpful.  

Metal has a high heat capacity, which means that it takes a large amount of heat to change the temperature of the metal.  That is the reason that anything with moisture in it will stick to untreated metal in freezing weather - the water flash freezes, and attaches to the metal and anything that the water was clinging to.  This is why you don't want to lick a metal pole in freezing weather, I am sure you have heard of kids getting their tongue stuck to metal objects in the winter.  Warm water doesn't help much, because you have to raise the temperature of the metal to the point that the ice melts.  Heating the metal could be accomplished with a hair dryer or small torch, but needs to be done carefully.  A hair dryer will take some time, and a torch will heat the metal pretty quickly, possibly causing other problems. Apply the heat to the metal a short distance away from the object, not to the object (bird) itself.   In this situation, it is important to avoid stressing the bird any further as well.

A better solution is to make sure that any metal objects that birds might perch on are properly coated, with paint, rubber coating (like Plasti-dip) or even something as simple as electrical tape.  When there is another material between the metal and the water, the ice won't stick to the paint, plastic, etc, and even if the moisture freezes on contact, it won't stay stuck to the other material.  

Hope this helps -

Jeff Parks

Boulder, CO

[Kay Niyo]

I used the “warm hand” method this fall in the huge heavy rain/gale winds we had in the Golden area.  I was on the phone with Ann Johnson and noticed a tiny saturated brown lump LEGO in the street in the heavy cold rain and being blown toward the “river” running in the gutter.  A car almost ran over it.  This was when I still had tons of Lesser Goldfinches coming to the thistle feeders.  I put on a raincoat and ran out and picked it up and sheltered it in my gently closed hand in the house for about 10-15 min.  I peeked at it and it amazingly was about dry just from my hand warmth.  With bird in closed hand, I got a small shoe box, added a soft cotton washcloth, and carefully placed the little juv LEGO in the box and covered it.  Within another 15 min he was all dry and peering at me.  The rain had let up and there were lots of LEGOs on the front porch feeder, so I took him out onto the covered porch and opened the box.  He flew to the window screen, looked at me, and then to the feeder.

 

So, warm hands can work wonders.  Sorry, Ira and Tammy.  Hope that doesn’t happen again.

 

Kay

 

Kayleen A. Niyo, Ph.D.

Niyo Scientific Communications

5651 Garnet St.

Golden, CO 80403

303.679.6646

K...@KayNiyo.com; www.KayNiyo.com

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[Kay Niyo]

I also suggested the following to Ira and Tammy:

 

On your sad story, have you thought of switching to thistle feeders that use screening instead of the metal ones?  That is what I have always used and the finches cling to them and move around with no problems.  I had never seen metal ones with holes until I came to your house last winter.  Your poor little guy will probably do ok just missing 1 toe if he didn’t get too weak from no food or water for too long.

 

Hang in there.  You are saving LOTS of birds with all your habitat and food!

 

Kay

 

Kayleen A. Niyo, Ph.D.

Niyo Scientific Communications

5651 Garnet St.

Golden, CO 80403

303.679.6646

K...@KayNiyo.com; www.KayNiyo.com

 

From: cob...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cob...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Parks
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:46 AM
To: Colorado Birds
Cc: zroadr...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

 

Hi all-

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[David Steingraeber]

We had something similar happen at our house yesterday, when my wife & a friend noticed a seemingly dead house finch hanging down from a metal trellis bar on which it had perched. They "enveloped" the bird in a fleece scarf and held it in place for a few minutes to warm it up.  The bird became detached from the bar, and after a few more minutes of warming (in/on the scarf, held by our friend in his cupped hands), it revived and flew away.

Dave Steingraeber
Fort Collins   

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[Kathy Kay]

The very same thing happened at my feeder this very same week last year.  I wasn't able to get to the Pine Sisken before it freed itself sans foot (separated at the knee).  He still comes to my feeder and bird bath.  He seems to be doing just fine a year after the incident.  You may see your Goldfinch again soon.

Kathy Kay

Golden, CO

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Christy P <passe...@gmail.com> wrote:

You have to be very careful applying heat of any kind to wildlife outdoors, especially one that may already be hypothermic. Oftentimes well-intentioned individuals kill animals trying to warm them back up by putting them into shock. Finding a heat source that only affects the portion of the bird that is stuck, as opposed to its entire body, would be recommended. With something as small as an American Goldfinch, assuming there wasn't a build-up of ice, maybe even just covering its foot with your warm hand and defrosting it that way may have worked, or would in future. 

Thanks for sharing Ira, it's always our worst fear to leave birds worse-off than they were to begin with. But at least you freed it.

Christy Payne

Wheat Ridge

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:27 AM Mary Keithler <mkei...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ira and birders,

Perhaps a hair dryer with a long extension cord would work better.  

Mary Keithler, Arapahoe County 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Ira Sanders <zroadr...@gmail.com> wrote:

This morning when I went to put out the feeders, there was a goldfinch hanging from the metal arm of the hooks we use to hang the feeders.  At first it wasn't moving and I was wondering how a bird could somehow die in that position.  I have no idea how long it was there, but I'm sure it was long enough to weaken it. As I got closer, I saw it's eyes were open and then it started to flutter a little.  It's foot had frozen to the iron arm and it was hanging by 1 foot.  I ran in to get some water to get it loose, but our efforts, which were incompetent and inadequate, didn't save all of it's foot.  

My first efforts only caused ice to form and made it worse.  

The bird did fly from Tammy's hand but part of it's foot was still on the metal.  Obviously we did it wrong.  In retrospect, I don't think warm water was a good idea at all.

In case someone else has this same miserable experience, maybe some forethought could result in a successful outcome and not our utter failure.

--

Ira Sanders

Golden, CO

"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

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[Eric DeFonso]

Regarding heat capacity...just a small correction to the earlier discussion. Metals actually have relatively low heat capacities, especially compared to water. What metals do have however is high heat *conductivity*. Their free electrons make them especially good not just at conducting electricity but also heat energy, and this is why the metal in the feeders was so effective at draining the heat from the moisture in the birds feet.

If you've ever lived near a large body of water like the Great Lakes or an ocean, you've experienced firsthand the heat capacity of water, with its ability to moderate temperatures year round compared to inland or high elevation locations.

Eric DeFonso

Westminster, CO

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[SeEttaM .]

Thank everyone for sharing about this issue but I have a continuing need for clarification .   Both USFWS and National Audubon as well as a number of others have previously stated that birds feet don't freeze to metal and metal feeders are not a risk. Yet clearly some birds have had their feet stuck to metal feeders or accessories as explained by several in this thread. 

"Birds don’t have sweat glands in their 

feet, so they won’t freeze onto metal 

feeders. There’s no need to cover 

any metal feeders parts with plastic 

or wood to protect birds’ feet, 

tongues or eyes. "

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fws.gov/nevada/nv_species/urban_wildlife/forthebirds.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwif5M__4ObQAhWjrlQKHZvEBNg4ChAWCF0wEA&usg=AFQjCNFNKgnEjcF5uo5dnlrJviN2T468yA&sig2=y_RjK6BWq4xnsbkazR3-jQ

"“Our fingers may stick to metal ice cube trays because moisture freezes on contact with frigid metal,” explains Kress. “However, a bird's feet are covered with dry scales, so there is no surface moisture to freeze to metal perches. Eyes, tongues, and beaks are usually safe from exposure to metal feeder parts."

Do Birds Stick to Metal Feeders In Winter? | 

 Could there be another reason the birds documented in this thread had their feet stick to metal--maybe there was melted snow on the metal?? Some other explanation? Or were USFWS and National Audubon just plain wrong?

SeEtta Moss

Canon City 

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[Joe Roller]

When the dew point is at a certain level, everything gets covered with some moisture.

For example: 

"Frosted windowpanes, candles gleaming inside..." The Christmas Waltz

Joe Roller, Denver

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[Ira Sanders]

Hey all,

I really appreciate all the information that has been shared on this subject and I have learned a lot from it.  I'll be taping the cast iron hooks to try to keep this from happening again.  I'll probably use cloth electrical tape as I think it will hold up better than duct tape.

To answer what SeEtta said, the best I can guess is that the goldfinch had been at the water feature bird bath before going to the feeder pole, and it's foot may have been wet.

I haven't had any trouble with birds sticking to the metal style thistle feeders that I use.

Ira Sanders

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[Karl Stecher Jr.]

Ira, some of my metal feeders have the metal as manufactured covered with a thin layer of plastic.

The guys (and girl) at the Wild Bird Center at Yale and Wadsworth may have some answers (and protected feeders).

 

Karl

 

 

 

---

From: "Ira Sanders" <zroadr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:50 AM
To: "Joe Roller" <jrol...@gmail.com>
Cc: "SeEtta Moss" <see...@gmail.com>, "Colorado Birds" <cob...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [cobirds] Disturbing bird incident

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