Forming the Co-operative
Ben Gibbs
Firstly, we need a name so they can do a namecheck before they register us.
Secondly, we need to decide whether we want the co-op to have joint ownership or common ownership. Joint ownership means that if it ends (Dissolution), the assets are distributed to the members. Common ownership means the assets are given to a similar organisation. They need to know this before they can register us. Please see the attached pdf's to see the differences in the rules.
Thirdly, they need a registered office address.
Fourthly, they need to know if we wish to change any of the rules, we can make up to 6 changes. Please see the attached pdf's to see the rules.
Fifthly, they need £400.
Sixthly, they need ID from 2 of the founder members.
Andrew Threlfall
Good work Ben.
Not sure about the name, but most can grow on me.
Ownership.
The pros of Joint Ownership are that the members (well recent ones)
who put the time and money in, get the assets when it dissolves which
seems right. But my worry is that if the co-op ends up owning
property etc, you could find that the membership 'sells out' to make
a quick buck for the remaining members. I am slightly in favour of
Common ownership, but am prepared to be swayed by a good argument!
We (Liquid Bronze) are prepared to match Ben's offer of £100 too, but
makes sense if these initial costs are put in as a loan, to be repaid
from income when the co-op gets running properly.
Once the legal structure has been decided, we can maybe get the main
points discussed on the list, and meet up if needed to finalise the
details.
Andrew Threlfall
Liquid Bronze
web :: design :: content management :: databases
t: 0161 8500111 f: 0870 2849286 w: www.liquidbronze.com
Greenheys, Manchester Science Park, Pencroft Way, Manchester M15 6JJ
Liquid Bronze Limited is a company registered in England and Wales
with company number 04037650
ShaunF
I&PS: both alternatives are I&PS rather than companies. These are good
if there is a need to raise share capital from members - much easier
than a share company, limited to £20k per member, and "par value"
shares (you get back what you put in). Many coops benefit from this,
but we need to decide whether it is a real benefit in this case.
Downside of I&PS is the initial cost - a company can be set up for a
lot less than the £400 Cooperatives UK want to set up an I&PS. I think
I would favour the I&PS route for a co-working venture, but worth
being aware of the alternatives.
Tax: setting up as common ownership means (I believe) that you can't
enjoy the corporation tax exemption which "mutual trading societies"
enjoy. It is also possible to include rules that make it difficult for
the members to sell out, but once you make it impossible the
corporation tax is back. This may sound bizarre, but there is a logic
to it.
Ben Gibbs
I've eventually got round to reading through the two different sets of rules we could choose. The main difference I see is that with the Joint Ownership rules, members can buy additional shares (above their single share for membership). I'm not entirely sure what the pro's and con's of this would be but one doesn't get more votes with more shares. I don't see any need to change any of the rules.
I think the Joint Ownership option is the way to go so if there are no objections by the beginning of next week (7th) I shall go ahead and set-up the Co-op under the Joint Ownership rules.
But we still need a name and another £200.
Any offers to help with the £200?
Another name I thought of was "Fly The Coop" - playing off the idea that co-working helps people leave their homes and bedrooms where they would usually work, and we could get the domain www.flythe.coop
We have had some good discussions with Manchester Science Park about using some space here for Co-Working. They are keen to help out but we need to become formalised before we can actually get some space.
I also noticed this article about how office space in Manchester is higher than Rome, Sydney and Washington D.C! (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/business/commercial_property_news/s/1056172_manchester_rents_top_rome) Of course Co-Working is not about providing the cheapest office space, but it's clear that there seems to be a market for space, or it's a bubble.
Please reply with some feedback about the rules, name and money.
Ta, Ben
Paul Robinson
> But we still need a name and another £200.
>
> Any offers to help with the £200?
I'm happy to contribute all of that (or rather Vagueware Ltd will),
but if somebody else wants some skin in the game at this stage, I'm
happy (more than happy!) to reduce my input by whatever they feel they
want to put in (even if it's just a tenner).
> Another name I thought of was "Fly The Coop" - playing off the idea
> that co-working helps people leave their homes and bedrooms where
> they would usually work, and we could get the domain www.flythe.coop
That's awfully clever. I like it. I like it a lot. +1 from me.
> Of course Co-Working is not about providing the cheapest office
> space, but it's clear that there seems to be a market for space, or
> it's a bubble.
It's a bit of both. Manchester is considered pricey in global terms
because there is relatively small supply but a large skilled working
population prepared to commute here, and the dominant sector wanting
offices in the 1-20 desk range is legal who are prepared to pay over
the odds. Over 20 people it gets better as that's dominated by call
centre stuff in the city centre, but still pricey: if you want to get
scared, go and look at how much it would cost to get ourselves based
on King Street. Not for the faint of heart.
It's also the reason why, despite the credit crunch, there is work
going on with 3 sky scrapers right now, all due to be up by 2010,
mostly filled with office space.
One day we'll own one of them. :-D
> Please reply with some feedback about the rules, name and money.
If you can throw us a set of the two rules you were looking at I can
give some detailed feedback on that.
--
Paul Robinson
http://vagueware.com :: pa...@vagueware.com :: +44 (0) 7740 465746
Vagueware Limited is registered in England/Wales, number 05700421
Registered Office: 3 Tivoli Place, Ilkley, W. Yorkshire, LS29 8SU
Correspondence: 55 Velvet Court, Granby Row, Manchester, M1 7AB
Ben Gibbs
I printed them off and highlighted the important bits, so you could look at my copies if you'd prefer?
Ben
Kevin Rutherford
I've just had a quick chat with Ben and so...
2008/7/2 Paul Robinson <pa...@vagueware.com>:
>
>> Any offers to help with the £200?
>
> I'm happy to contribute all of that (or rather Vagueware Ltd will),
> but if somebody else wants some skin in the game at this stage, I'm
> happy (more than happy!) to reduce my input by whatever they feel they
> want to put in (even if it's just a tenner).
I'm happy to donate £100 -- ie. to halve with you Paul.
What happens next?
Cheers,
Kevin
--
e: ke...@rutherford-software.com
w: http://www.kevinrutherford.co.uk
l: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinrutherford
Paul Robinson
> I'm happy to donate £100 -- ie. to halve with you Paul.
> What happens next?
We both give him money. :-)