here is an idea

[Nevyn Nowhere]

To start out, why not be less restricting to musicians, since you need them or you have no union.

ie, let's give those clubs stars or whatever.  but if a union musician has a chance to play a non union club, or with non union bands, then they do just that.

That will allow musicians to get involved first, which is what you need before you have any clout with the clubs.  And those who support the union could add their support to that...

..except wasn't the previous post by the owners that there was no support?

Dunno, I change my suggestion.  We don't need a union, we need community/communities organization.

-nn
happyhumans.org

[Ross Lampert]

Two things.

One, there are far more than 5 to 8 people involved in this campaign.  Greg seriously understated the amount of involvement.  He was simply asking you who are part of this list to become involved.

Two, we are essentially acting as a community organization.  My background is as a community organizer and as the labor laws are, we cannot organize club musicians in a traditional manner for a union, only as a community.  We are being exceptionally open and inviting in this process and asking everyone to get involved, union member or non-member.  The reason the Union (or community organization or whatever you want to call us) is necessary is because we provide the backbone/support for this campaign.  Without us organizing, would this type of project even be in existence in a real form?

Ross

[Nevyn Nowhere]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Ross Lampert <ro...@afm99.org> wrote:

Two things.

One, there are far more than 5 to 8 people involved in this campaign.  Greg seriously understated the amount of involvement.  He was simply asking you who are part of this list to become involved.

Hey, you guys send the emails out, not me.  Per meeting, I should have said.  Still, that's nothing for the amount of musicians in this town. 

Two, we are essentially acting as a community organization.  My background is as a community organizer and as the labor laws are, we cannot organize club musicians in a traditional manner for a union, only as a community. 

What's with the union dues then?  I'm involved with multiple community organizations, each and every which of one works from donations and/or grants.
 

We are being exceptionally open and inviting in this process and asking everyone to get involved, union member or non-member. 

Yes, you are asking everyone to get involved, repeatedly.  I just don't see actions jibing unless people put up the skrilla.  And then?  Who knows, I'm not them.
 

The reason the Union (or community organization or whatever you want to call us) is necessary is because we provide the backbone/support for this campaign.  Without us organizing, would this type of project even be in existence in a real form?

It certainly could.  There are a myriad of donation based/volunteer based organizations that exist and thrive.  If you bowed out, I'd probably start one.  But since you're giving it a shot, I'll either watch and learn from your mistakes, or participate when it seems like something I wish to be a part of.  Meantime, I'll share my thoughts, and seemedly never once have the direct issues I've brought up be addressed.

-nn
happyhumans.org

PS: I'd be very interested in hearing your responses to what I view as problems (yes I mixed the two organizational names, but the problems I brought up were spoken of with the union in mind, clearly) with what you're doing.  I presented valid arguments as to what I viewed as being problematic, and not only have yet to have an answer, but HAVE you telling me I haven't said anything.