How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption

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Ashish Mittal

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Aug 15, 2013, 11:16:39 AM8/15/13
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While enterprises realizes that Cloud computing is a great technology , customers are still apprehensive in cloud adoption and partners do not want to recommend (read as push)  their clients to migrate to cloud services. Any thoughts.

cloud murali

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Aug 15, 2013, 11:54:11 AM8/15/13
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i can say they don't have clarity on SLA's



On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Ashish Mittal <ashis...@gmail.com> wrote:
While enterprises realizes that Cloud computing is a great technology , customers are still apprehensive in cloud adoption and partners do not want to recommend (read as push)  their clients to migrate to cloud services. Any thoughts.

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Bhaven Thacker

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Aug 15, 2013, 2:22:58 PM8/15/13
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The biggest point for persuading people to adopt cloud in the mainstream they have always been sending mails with data attached to it.

The collaborate over mails and share data, cloud grids are safer that way........ also the cloud grid where the VMs are hosted need to have vital configs like IP Assigned to a particular VM should be having dedicated VLAN mapped right upto the physical port, for e.g Cisco UCS server's CNA and VNIC features...... 
 


On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Ashish Mittal <ashis...@gmail.com> wrote:
While enterprises realizes that Cloud computing is a great technology , customers are still apprehensive in cloud adoption and partners do not want to recommend (read as push)  their clients to migrate to cloud services. Any thoughts.

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Thanks & Warm Regards

Bhaven Thacker
 

Tim M. Crawford

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Aug 16, 2013, 3:23:50 AM8/16/13
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It depends on the organization and where they are in the process. The level of maturity within the leadership of the organization will also sway the drivers. Security, privacy, cost are early conversation starters. But eventually the conversation quickly moves beyond those factors.

Tim

_______________________________________
Tim M. Crawford

On Aug 15, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Faiq Gazdhar <fai...@gmail.com> wrote:

What most people i have met worry about are - security, privacy, cost, control.

Rozila Ismail

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Aug 16, 2013, 5:29:55 AM8/16/13
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Yeah thats true..but mostly because lack of understanding and awareness of cloud computing..


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Faiq Gazdhar <fai...@gmail.com> wrote:
What most people i have met worry about are - security, privacy, cost, control.

Peter Lowe

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Aug 16, 2013, 3:52:56 AM8/16/13
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Most companies considering their  Cloud options are waiting until their next “Wintel technology refresh”.

In several recent cases the “write-off of legacy assets and Software licensing issues “ have blown the Cloud business case.

 

Security , Privacy and operational control issues have all been dealt with by Azure and AWS.

 

The biggest risk of any company committing to the Cloud remains who deals with and pays for the “Cloud Outages’.

If your business can carry the risk cloud is a viable option – if not server virtualization is the way to go.

From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Faiq Gazdhar
Sent: 16 August 2013 08:09 AM
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption

 

What most people i have met worry about are - security, privacy, cost, control.

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Jafar

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Aug 16, 2013, 10:57:12 AM8/16/13
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The service providers must realize that it must make business sense before businesses start switching. People on legacy systems and env will mostly follow the 'if it aint broken dont fixit' mantra rather than let's di it because it exists.

Sent from phone-

Jafar Ismail

Bhaven Thacker

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Aug 16, 2013, 12:18:25 PM8/16/13
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Full potential of cloud can be unleashed only when the application also supports the elasticity which is offered by the true blue cloud setup. Data security worries can be addressed eventually and there are ways n means of ensuring the same as well.

J. Andrew Rogers

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Aug 16, 2013, 2:04:36 PM8/16/13
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Another practical aspect is that some classes of application perform relatively poorly in cloud environments relative to non-cloud equivalents (integer factor differences). It is not that uncommon to go from using the cloud to bare metal infrastructures; I know several companies that have made that transition (including my own). 

For the broader set of enterprise customers, public clouds are often not an option for a variety of security, regulatory, and legal reasons. I routinely see legitimate cases of this that preclude the use of Azure and AWS.



On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Ashish Mittal <ashis...@gmail.com> wrote:
While enterprises realizes that Cloud computing is a great technology , customers are still apprehensive in cloud adoption and partners do not want to recommend (read as push)  their clients to migrate to cloud services. Any thoughts.

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debashish sarkar

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Aug 16, 2013, 2:46:30 PM8/16/13
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Organizations with legacy systems are likely to be 'laggards'. Laggards will change only when they run out of options. Unless there's a transformational desire to move
the needle towards 'innovation'


Subject: Re: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption
From: jafar_...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:57:12 -0400
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com

Jim Peters

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Aug 17, 2013, 12:14:47 PM8/17/13
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I would be very surprised to learn that any SLA would adequately compensate an enterprise user for loss of service, loss of data, or loss of privacy ...

+J
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+1-647-444-5328 (Cell)

Ulf Mattsson

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Aug 18, 2013, 10:14:25 AM8/18/13
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In a public-cloud environment, one client’s data is typically stored with data belonging to multiple other clients. This makes a public cloud an attractive target for attackers, as the potential gain may be greater than that to be attained from attacking a number of organizations individually.

Ray

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Aug 18, 2013, 2:03:25 PM8/18/13
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And yet enterprise security breaches, behind the corporate firewall, have never been more abundant. Nothing is safe anywhere. Folks that believe their data is safe in their private data centers as misinformed.


From: Ulf Mattsson <ulf.ma...@protegrity.com>
To: "cloud-c...@googlegroups.com" <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 7:14 AM

Marc Dijkstra

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Aug 18, 2013, 2:37:43 PM8/18/13
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Great point, which would make one assume that the public cloud vendors take their security very seriously. In discussion recently with a IaaS startup that was gobbled up by the big G and it is very clear that these chaps, and the likes of AWS are under sustained, multi level, multi vector attack. If one were to compare a large public cloud vendor with 100,000 customers to a large financial institution with say 50,000 users, one could argue the public cloud vendor is streaks ahead of the large bank in terms of IDS, IPS, network security layer security etc

We are seeing a major shift in public cloud thinking in the emerging region of EMEA and the recent approval of AWS for financial institutions in the Netherlands makes for an interesting appraisal of where we are in the hype cycle, certainly in EMEA.

J. Andrew Rogers

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Aug 18, 2013, 3:53:26 PM8/18/13
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It is not that they believe their private data centers are so much more secure per se, it is that there are clear(-er) chains of custody, accountability, auditability, and liability for the data when breaches happen. Furthermore, enterprises are often legally obligated to warranty aspects of data disposition that would be difficult to realize using public cloud vendors because of the vendors' business and operational models. Processes that are optimal for the cloud vendor may not be optimal from a liability standpoint when security issues occur or when certain contractual clauses pertaining to data are triggered.

It is a difficult problem. Meeting those requirements in a public cloud setting become sufficiently costly that it is easier and less expensive to do manage the infrastructure in-house.

J. Andrew Rogers

Jeanne Morain

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Aug 18, 2013, 10:44:50 PM8/18/13
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There are many factors that contribute to cloud stall from my research on my books on cloud computing and experience:

1) Maturity of company and processes - those with immature processes and staff will ultimately hit roadblocks and high probability for failure when migrating to a cloud model (especially hybrid) as cloudifying bad processes only highlights the work arounds and where they break down faster.  Think of it like pouring gasoline on a fire.  Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
2) Costs - Cloud impacts costing and at times the juice is not worth the squeeze for larger enterprise customers due to loosing depreciation benefit, latency or other factors that go into play.  Hacking is prolific regardless of hosting mechanism - public cloud, SaaS, or private cloud environment.  The only way to truly insure environment isn't hacked is keeping up with patching systems, anti-virus, and limiting administrative rights to administrators. 
3) Compliance (Security, Regulatory, and Business directives) for the company.  For example - a key factor several companies cited was Blind Subpoena or concerns for international companies around hosting data in US Cloud Providers.
4) Ease of integration with brown field applications/components - for those saying the customers need to get with the "greenfield" they should wake up and try to understand their customers better.  No CIO worth their salt will accept that as a suitable answer as the company can not lift and shift all of their applications overnight - particularly sticky ones like CRM or Unified Communications. 
5) Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery planning - Well said below - who pays for outages.  Ultimately the customers do because their customers/company gets impacted.  It is important that company's have a succinct business continuity plan and negotiate precedence with their cloud providers.  Just because work loads are moved to 3rd party providers - we should not overlook best practices around data center optimization.  Whether it is on premise or hosted in a 3rd party cloud - the customer still needs to insure that outages do not equal a major impact to their business.




Amy Wohl

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Aug 19, 2013, 11:48:52 AM8/19/13
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Why don’t public cloud users automatically demand that their data be encrypted?

 

Amy D. Wohl

Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions

1954 Birchwood Park Drive North

Cherry Hill, NJ 08003

856-874-4034

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Phil Abraham

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Aug 19, 2013, 12:02:35 PM8/19/13
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Most people are not aware of encryption and its importance. Phil
Phil Abraham
Cloud Face LLC & CloudFace Labs
Innovative Cloud Solutions & Big Data/Security Solutions

LEGAL CONFIDENTIAL: The information in this e-mail and in any attachment may contain information which is legally privileged. It is intended only for the attention and use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to retain, disclose, copy or distribute the message and/or any of its attachments. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify me and delete this message. Thank-you.

brian cinque

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Aug 19, 2013, 12:05:12 PM8/19/13
to Torrance DeLeon
Who holds the keys if they make the demand?


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Amy Wohl <a...@wohl.com> wrote:

Rob Bird

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Aug 19, 2013, 12:12:07 PM8/19/13
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Why don't public cloud users simply encrypt their own data so they hold the keys? It's goofy to put that onus on the cloud providers from a security perspective, though it might make a compliance wonk feel better.

I also seriously question the validity of the statement that a public cloud provider has a more secure infrastructure than a large bank. You'd be astounded at the lack of defense in depth at public cloud scale. Why? Because security products generally doesn't scale remotely to that level. 
Best,
Rob

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Rob Bird, Chief Technology Officer
Red Lambda, Inc.

David Kramer

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Aug 19, 2013, 12:20:14 PM8/19/13
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We done want to pay the fee associated with the encryption...This includes the fact you most often have to add additional resources as well as the resources you add have additional costs to accomplish the encryption..

I am a cloud consumer - I purchase and consume a bunch - I only encrypt where I positively have to and then in elastic capacity (what i need when i need it)

I have roughly 3-4k workloads in the cloud at this time and have almost never had to encrypt the data ... When I have it altered the application design significantly...

"HT"


David "HT" Kramer
Managing Partner, Cooperative Computing

Tel: 972.636.5445

302 Roma Court, Allen, Texas, 75013, US
david....@cooperativecomputing.net
www.firstcloudteam.com


On Aug 19, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Amy Wohl <a...@wohl.com> wrote:

Why don’t public cloud users automatically demand that their data be encrypted?
 
Amy D. Wohl
Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions
1954 Birchwood Park Drive North
Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
Follow my blog at http://www.amywohlsopinions.com  
 

Geoff Arnold

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Aug 19, 2013, 12:27:12 PM8/19/13
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On Aug 19, 2013, at 9:12 AM, Rob Bird <rob...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why don't public cloud users simply encrypt their own data so they hold the keys?

All the sensible ones do.

It's goofy to put that onus on the cloud providers from a security perspective, though it might make a compliance wonk feel better.

I also seriously question the validity of the statement that a public cloud provider has a more secure infrastructure than a large bank.

The average cloud service provider has a vastly more secure infrastructure than the average customer, because they have to meet the demands of their most security-conscious customers, and most enterprises are clueless about security. Ask anyone who's been involved in PCI compliance audits.

You'd be astounded at the lack of defense in depth at public cloud scale. Why? Because security products generally doesn't scale remotely to that level. 

Security "products" are irrelevant. Excellent operational practices and controls are what matters. Companies like Amazon, Rackspace, and Softlayer understand this.

kl...@schulz.com

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Aug 19, 2013, 12:27:22 PM8/19/13
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Google to encrypt Cloud Storage data by default 
Google said Thursday it will by default encrypt data warehoused in its Cloud Storage service. The server-side encryption is now active for all new data written to Cloud Storage, and older data will be encrypted in the coming months, wrote Dave Barth, a Google product manager, in a blog post. Read More 

Khazret Sapenov

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:03:41 PM8/19/13
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Klaus,

But both keys are still on provider's side, even with two step encryption.

Rao Dronamraju

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:12:00 PM8/19/13
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and who encrypts the keys? J what about keys that encrypt keys? J and who assumes the responsibility of key management for hundreds if not thousands of clients?

Once you have taken responsibility for encryption and key management, are you LIABLE for any data breaches?

 

The issues are very cloudy!!! And the CSP’s have their heads in the clouds!

Mitesh Soni

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:26:04 PM8/19/13
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Geoff has hit the nail on the head. If you consider that your data is sensitive then it is your responsibility to encrypt it or secure it.

It is a similar type of case where you think there is a Government hence they should take care of your home and security, to the extent true...Government does it but you are also responsible for locking your house. You need to be cautious and same situation is in the Cloud.

Responsibilities are shared and hence Cloud Service Provider and Cloud Consumer are equally responsible for security.
Thanks and Regards,
Mitesh Soni


Rob Bird

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:27:26 PM8/19/13
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I didn't say average customer, I was responding to the previous email.

It may have been more useful to say tooling than products. And that includes the tools used for any of the security controls or provider administration.

I really hope you don't believe that the needs of the most security conscious cloud customers sets the minimum infrastructure bar for everyone "because it must, right?". That's not remotely true, but it's good copy for the providers. I've helped many folks understand that during said PCI audits, and more importantly, during deep red team exercises. The road to hell is paved with unaudited assumptions.

Phil Hunt

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:33:41 PM8/19/13
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The problem is much more complex than that.  What are the access rights, document sharing systems, etc.  

As someone said, breaches by authorized users isn't solved by simple data encryption.

Phil
@independentid
phil...@yahoo.com


On 2013-08-19, at 8:48 AM, "Amy Wohl" <a...@wohl.com> wrote:

Why don’t public cloud users automatically demand that their data be encrypted?
 
Amy D. Wohl
Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions
1954 Birchwood Park Drive North
Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
Follow my blog at http://www.amywohlsopinions.com  
 

Geoff Arnold

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:57:05 PM8/19/13
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I guess the ambiguity revolves around “large”. I’ve seen several banks whose infrastructure security (which is what we’re talking about) is much less sophisticated than Amazon’s. [Disclaimer: I used to work for Amazon.]

Cloud providers don’t use different grades of infrastructure security for different customers (excluding the specialized government clouds, about which I know nothing). That’s the blessing (and curse) of pooled resources. 

Larry Cable

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Aug 19, 2013, 1:59:57 PM8/19/13
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I think its "worse" than that (if I correctly understand how the feature is implemented), while both S3 and now Google Cloud Storage "auto" encrypt data while "on disk" it is automatically decrypted when read via properly authenticated API requests.

Seems to me that the likelihood that a potential hacker will obtain the necessary user credentials in order to masquerade as another user is much more likely than for that same hacker to penetrate the cloud
provider and traverse the implementation in order to find the file on some disk somewhere therein that contains the users (unencrypted) data (unless that hacker is an employee).

I think as others have already stated, if you are concerned about content security you must manage that yourself to obtain an adequate degree of confidence therein.



From: Rao Dronamraju <rao.dro...@sbcglobal.net>
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:12 AM

Mitesh Soni

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Aug 19, 2013, 2:18:40 PM8/19/13
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I believe, in this case, hybrid encryption will work. It is not new; It has been used in traditional environment as well where Content is encrypted with Symmetric Keys and Symmetric Keys are encrypted with Asymmetric Keys. In any case, Key Management has to be done by Cloud Consumers.

Not sure, whether 3rd Party key management providers can bring confidence here.

Priya Joseph

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Aug 19, 2013, 2:22:55 PM8/19/13
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com, larry...@yahoo.com

Encrypted at rest vs Encrypted in motion. Both are solved problems. The finra,hipaa,sox, regulated user demands it for sure.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

Subject: Re: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption
Sent: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:59:57 PM

Larry Cable

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Aug 19, 2013, 2:24:53 PM8/19/13
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Yep understood that was the case ... thanks


From: Priya Joseph <elletr...@yahoo.com>
To: "cloud-c...@googlegroups.com" <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>; "larry...@yahoo.com" <larry...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 11:22 AM

Tim M. Crawford

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Aug 19, 2013, 3:24:59 PM8/19/13
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Completely agree with Phil. The problem is far more complex than folks are making it out to be. In the most simplistic case, key management is a large piece of the problem. But in reality, there are a number of other factors to consider. Among the more challenging are:

- Knowledge: How is encryption managed, keys, etc
- Applications: How do apps access encrypted data and manage the key pairs?
- Contracts: How are the contracts between client and service provider setup?
- Data Management: Are data management techniques in place? How are they managed with encrypted data?
- Analytics: How is data accessed especially across different data sets where different keys may be used?

And many of those are only from the most simplistic perspective. In reality, the problem is much more complex and often avoided due to a number of reasons.

Tim
@tcrawford

frankg

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Aug 19, 2013, 5:28:53 PM8/19/13
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And perhaps you may want to differentiate retail banks from investment banks.  The network security at most large investment banks is at least as good as AWS.

Sent: 16 August 2013 08:09 AM
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption
 

What most people i have met worry about are - security, privacy, cost, control.

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UP 2012 is the biggest, brightest and best established cloud event. A world class lineup of speakers, covering solutions for today and tomorrow will look at the evolution of the cloud, and how it helps business and society to thrive. Listen, debate and enjoy the very latest trends and innovations, while networking with the movers and shakers of the cloud industry. Register at http://up-con.com/register-now
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UP 2012 is the biggest, brightest and best established cloud event. A world class lineup of speakers, covering solutions for today and tomorrow will look at the evolution of the cloud, and how it helps business and society to thrive. Listen, debate and enjoy the very latest trends and innovations, while networking with the movers and shakers of the cloud industry. Register at http://up-con.com/register-now
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Vic Winkler

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Aug 19, 2013, 6:33:12 PM8/19/13
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Geoff has it exactly right.

-- Vic Winkler
V...@VicWinkler.com   
Cell: (703) 622-7111
My Cloud Security book:  http://amzn.to/gRY1Bp 
_________________________________________ 

Jim Starkey

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Aug 20, 2013, 10:10:02 AM8/20/13
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I think the technical term for this is "fig leaf."

Google, like all US corporations, is required to turn over customer data on receipt of a "national security letter", which cannot, by law, be disclosed to the customer.� This would apply equally to their encryption keys, so from the perspective of privacy, the encryption is next to useless.

It is very hard to avoid recognizing that a major victim of Snowden's exposures of NSA's warrantless data vacuuming is the public cloud.� NSA's reach into a private data center requires both notice and a court order.� The same reach into a public cloud forbids notice and requires no specific court order.

The standard argument is that if a corporation has nothing to hide, this shouldn't be an issue.� But the Manning and Snowden cases show very clearly that what the government knows today can be on the front page tomorrow.

On 8/19/2013 12:27 PM, kl...@schulz.com wrote:
Google to encrypt Cloud Storage data by default�
Google said�Thursday�it will by default encrypt data warehoused in its Cloud Storage service. The server-side encryption is now active for all new data written to Cloud Storage, and older data will be encrypted in the coming months, wrote Dave Barth, a Google product manager, in a blog post.�Read More�


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Amy Wohl <a...@wohl.com> wrote:

Why don�t public cloud users automatically demand that their data be encrypted?

�

Amy D. Wohl

Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions

1954 Birchwood Park Drive North

Cherry Hill, NJ 08003

856-874-4034

a...@wohl.com

http://www.wohl.com

Follow my blog at http://www.amywohlsopinions.com��

�

From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marc Dijkstra
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 2:38 PM
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Cc: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com


Subject: Re: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption

�

Great point, which would make one assume that the public cloud vendors take their security very seriously. In discussion recently with a IaaS startup that was gobbled up by the big G and it is very clear that these chaps, and the likes of AWS are under sustained, multi level, multi vector attack. If one were to compare a large public cloud vendor with 100,000 customers to a large financial institution with say 50,000 users, one could argue the public cloud vendor is streaks ahead of the large bank in terms of IDS, IPS, network security layer security etc

�

We are seeing a major shift in public cloud thinking in the emerging region of EMEA and the recent approval of AWS for financial institutions in the Netherlands makes for an interesting appraisal of where we are in the hype cycle, certainly in EMEA.

�


On 18 Aug 2013, at 18:50, "Ulf Mattsson" <ulf.ma...@protegrity.com> wrote:

In a public-cloud environment, one client�s data is typically stored with data belonging to multiple other clients. This makes a public cloud an attractive target for attackers, as the potential gain may be greater than that to be attained from attacking a number of organizations individually.

�

From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Lowe
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 3:53 AM
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption

�

Most companies considering their �Cloud options are waiting until their next �Wintel technology refresh�.

In several recent cases the �write-off of legacy assets and Software licensing issues � have blown the Cloud business case.

�

Security , Privacy and operational control issues have all been dealt with by Azure and AWS.

�

The biggest risk of any company committing to the Cloud remains who deals with and pays for the �Cloud Outages�.

If your business can carry the risk cloud is a viable option � if not server virtualization is the way to go.

From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Faiq Gazdhar
Sent: 16 August 2013 08:09 AM
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Cloud Computing Google Group How to motivate partners and customers for cloud adoption

�

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