Has cloud computing killed co-location
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jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 10:33:47 AM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Hey guys,
I would be extremely interested to hear insights, comments or
arguments "for" or "against" any of the "two" views below. Which one
do you agree with and why? Is there a way to make co-location
complement a cloud rollout?
******************************************
VIEW 1: Cloud has killed co-location
******************************************
The rise of cloud computing, including private and public clouds, will
progressively make the traditional co-lo and managed co-lo hosting
services extinct. Instead, by 2020 companies will progressively
deploy a range of public and private clouds that will provision 80% of
all apps, data and storage via the Internet.
*************************************************************************
VIEW 2: Co-location can be used to expand your cloud footprint.
*************************************************************************
Alternatively, companies using private and public clouds should
consider using co-located options to extend their cloud footprint and
take advantage of robust security, customization and other features.
Cloud and co-located servers can co-exist. It does not have to be an
'either/or' issue.
Thus, In the context of the re-vitalized 'virtualization' or 'cloud'
revolution what role, if any, does co-location play in complementing
or synergizing a cloud rollout?
I welcome all and any feedback!
Cheers
Jason
I would be extremely interested to hear insights, comments or
arguments "for" or "against" any of the "two" views below. Which one
do you agree with and why? Is there a way to make co-location
complement a cloud rollout?
******************************************
VIEW 1: Cloud has killed co-location
******************************************
The rise of cloud computing, including private and public clouds, will
progressively make the traditional co-lo and managed co-lo hosting
services extinct. Instead, by 2020 companies will progressively
deploy a range of public and private clouds that will provision 80% of
all apps, data and storage via the Internet.
*************************************************************************
VIEW 2: Co-location can be used to expand your cloud footprint.
*************************************************************************
Alternatively, companies using private and public clouds should
consider using co-located options to extend their cloud footprint and
take advantage of robust security, customization and other features.
Cloud and co-located servers can co-exist. It does not have to be an
'either/or' issue.
Thus, In the context of the re-vitalized 'virtualization' or 'cloud'
revolution what role, if any, does co-location play in complementing
or synergizing a cloud rollout?
I welcome all and any feedback!
Cheers
Jason
Andrew Badera
Dec 17, 2010, 1:10:33 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Smaller providers of SaaS services still heavily use coloc.
∞ Andy Badera
∞ +1 518-641-1280 Google Voice
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
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∞ Andy Badera
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∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
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Tim Cramer
Dec 17, 2010, 11:23:55 AM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com, Cloud Computing
I believe that co-lo will be vital for any high performance applications in the cloud.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Ray Nugent
Dec 17, 2010, 1:20:50 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I did an analysis for a customer a while back that you can find up on slide share. It may not be exactly the scenario you had in mind but it's a data point. I think colo will always be around but most, if not all, of them are scrambling to move to a cloud model as they see the writing on the wall.
http://www.slideshare.net/rnugent/aws-vs-colo-analysis
http://www.slideshare.net/rnugent/aws-vs-colo
Ray
http://www.slideshare.net/rnugent/aws-vs-colo-analysis
http://www.slideshare.net/rnugent/aws-vs-colo
Ray
From: Andrew Badera <and...@badera.us>
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] Has cloud computing killed co-location
jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 1:20:30 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Hey Tim, I tend to agree but perhaps it just a question of
'terminology' or semantics:
If you can existing cloud solution with a 3rd party service provider
e.g.:
IaaS
PaaS
SaaS
....why would you bother extending any of the above into traditional
colo or 'managed' colo.
Or, be defination, if you are using IaaS through a provider does this
in fact mean you are using a form of co-location? In other words, is
the term co-location morphing into something else?
Regards
Jason
On Dec 17, 11:23 am, Tim Cramer <timothy.cra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe that co-lo will be vital for any high performance applications in the cloud.
>
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
'terminology' or semantics:
If you can existing cloud solution with a 3rd party service provider
e.g.:
IaaS
PaaS
SaaS
....why would you bother extending any of the above into traditional
colo or 'managed' colo.
Or, be defination, if you are using IaaS through a provider does this
in fact mean you are using a form of co-location? In other words, is
the term co-location morphing into something else?
Regards
Jason
On Dec 17, 11:23 am, Tim Cramer <timothy.cra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe that co-lo will be vital for any high performance applications in the cloud.
>
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Follow us on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/cloudcomp_groupor @cloudcomp_group
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > Follow us on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/cloudcomp_groupor @cloudcomp_group
> > Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmlandhttp://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
Bobinson K B
Dec 17, 2010, 1:16:32 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
This is a very interesting topic. I am of View 1. When large public providers are are able to provide SLAs matching co-located service providers the need for traditional services will reduce. There may be still applications that require co-located services for a small subset of applications.
Looking forward to hear ideas from more people.
Thanks and Regards,
Bobinson K B
jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 1:24:33 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Thanks Andrew. But a quick question.... a small hosting provider
offering a company the choice between offsite private and public SaaS
services:
Why would that company need to use a co-lo when he can simply leverage
IaaS or PaaS functionality in addition to his existing private or
public SaaS?
What would be the point of signing up for additional co-lo services
unless the principle sticking point is security or a whole bunch of
customized mission crit apps that they do not wish to migrate to a
cloud?
I guess this point is throwing me off a bit.
Thanks
Jason
On Dec 17, 1:10 pm, Andrew Badera <and...@badera.us> wrote:
> Smaller providers of SaaS services still heavily use coloc.
>
> ∞ Andy Badera
> ∞ +1 518-641-1280 Google Voice
> ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
> ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:33 AM, jason-stevens.com
> <silversc...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
offering a company the choice between offsite private and public SaaS
services:
Why would that company need to use a co-lo when he can simply leverage
IaaS or PaaS functionality in addition to his existing private or
public SaaS?
What would be the point of signing up for additional co-lo services
unless the principle sticking point is security or a whole bunch of
customized mission crit apps that they do not wish to migrate to a
cloud?
I guess this point is throwing me off a bit.
Thanks
Jason
On Dec 17, 1:10 pm, Andrew Badera <and...@badera.us> wrote:
> Smaller providers of SaaS services still heavily use coloc.
>
> ∞ Andy Badera
> ∞ +1 518-641-1280 Google Voice
> ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
> ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:33 AM, jason-stevens.com
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,
> >http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
Ray Nugent
Dec 17, 2010, 1:29:04 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
No, it's not. The term colo is going to die and be replaced by cloud. regardless of whether it really is or not.
Ray
Ray
From: jason-stevens.com <silve...@gmail.com>
To: Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:20:30 AM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Has cloud computing killed co-location
UP-Start Cloud Awards http://www.up-con.com/awards
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Posting guidelines: http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
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jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 1:38:17 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Thanks Ray. Interesting although this adopts an "either/or" approach;
I am looking for synergies between the two.
I have summarized your main points (I realize the dangers of doing
so! :):
***********************************************************
Year 1: Amazon cloud 60% cheaper than co-lo
Year 2: Amazon cloud 20% cheaper than co-lo (subjective %)
Year 3: Amazon cloud 19% more expensive than co-lo
Year 4: Re-investement in cool turns tables; Amazon cloud 18% cheaper
than reinvestment in cool.
*****************************************************************************************************************
General conclusion: Co-lo averaged out over a multi-year period may
for a certain amount of time trump cloud; but over long term the cost
and ease of access to deploy clouds means co-location cannot win this
battle.
But again, how can an existing private or public cloud rollout take
advantage of additional co-lo (traditional or managed) in the short,
medium or long term; if at all?
On Dec 17, 1:20 pm, Ray Nugent <rnug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I did an analysis for a customer a while back that you can find up on slide
> share. It may not be exactly the scenario you had in mind but it's a data
> point. I think colo will always be around but most, if not all, of them are
> scrambling to move to a cloud model as they see the writing on the wall.
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/rnugent/aws-vs-colo-analysishttp://www.slideshare.net/rnugent/aws-vs-colo
> >UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD athttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmlandhttp://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
I am looking for synergies between the two.
I have summarized your main points (I realize the dangers of doing
so! :):
***********************************************************
Year 1: Amazon cloud 60% cheaper than co-lo
Year 2: Amazon cloud 20% cheaper than co-lo (subjective %)
Year 3: Amazon cloud 19% more expensive than co-lo
Year 4: Re-investement in cool turns tables; Amazon cloud 18% cheaper
than reinvestment in cool.
*****************************************************************************************************************
General conclusion: Co-lo averaged out over a multi-year period may
for a certain amount of time trump cloud; but over long term the cost
and ease of access to deploy clouds means co-location cannot win this
battle.
But again, how can an existing private or public cloud rollout take
advantage of additional co-lo (traditional or managed) in the short,
medium or long term; if at all?
On Dec 17, 1:20 pm, Ray Nugent <rnug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I did an analysis for a customer a while back that you can find up on slide
> share. It may not be exactly the scenario you had in mind but it's a data
> point. I think colo will always be around but most, if not all, of them are
> scrambling to move to a cloud model as they see the writing on the wall.
>
>
> Ray
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrew Badera <and...@badera.us>
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] Has cloud computing killed co-location
>
> Smaller providers of SaaS services still heavily use coloc.
>
> ∞ Andy Badera
> ∞ +1 518-641-1280 Google Voice
> ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
> ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:33 AM, jason-stevens.com <silversc...@gmail.com>
> Ray
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrew Badera <and...@badera.us>
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] Has cloud computing killed co-location
>
> Smaller providers of SaaS services still heavily use coloc.
>
> ∞ Andy Badera
> ∞ +1 518-641-1280 Google Voice
> ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
> ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera
>
> >Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comand
> >http://cloudslam09.com
> >Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> >http://cloudslam09.com
> >Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> >Follow us on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/cloudcomp_groupor @cloudcomp_group
> >Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> >Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> >downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmland
> >http://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
>
> >~~~~~
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>
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> ~~~~~
> UP 2010 Conference:http://www.up-con.com
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>
> >~~~~~
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>
> --
> ~~~~~
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> Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
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> Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
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> downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmlandhttp://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
Ray Nugent
Dec 17, 2010, 1:38:25 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Because he wants to own the hardware?
Ray
Ray
From: jason-stevens.com <silve...@gmail.com>
To: Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:24:33 AM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Has cloud computing killed co-location
UP-Start Cloud Awards http://www.up-con.com/awards
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Posting guidelines: http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
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jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 1:42:53 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Thanks Bobinson. But this again implies that a company with an
existing co-location facility offshored at a provider will probably
migrate some (or all) of its data, storage or apps to a cloud model.
But, would this be true in the reverse?
Would a company employing cloud services ever decide to consume
additional co-located services?
Point take on customized SLAs. The more a provider allows
customization of the SLA with regards a cloud roll-out the more reach
they will get with companies consuming an on-premise solution or a
colo service. I have heard reports that some hosting providers in
2010 have been selling out cloud solutions on VMware and Xen at a rate
of 4-1 in relation to managed dedicated boxes and co-lo services.
On Dec 17, 1:16 pm, Bobinson K B <bobin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a very interesting topic. I am of View 1. When large public
> providers are are able to provide SLAs matching co-located service providers
> the need for traditional services will reduce. There may be still
> applications that require co-located services for a small subset of
> applications.
>
> Looking forward to hear ideas from more people.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Bobinson K B
>
> > > UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> > > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
existing co-location facility offshored at a provider will probably
migrate some (or all) of its data, storage or apps to a cloud model.
But, would this be true in the reverse?
Would a company employing cloud services ever decide to consume
additional co-located services?
Point take on customized SLAs. The more a provider allows
customization of the SLA with regards a cloud roll-out the more reach
they will get with companies consuming an on-premise solution or a
colo service. I have heard reports that some hosting providers in
2010 have been selling out cloud solutions on VMware and Xen at a rate
of 4-1 in relation to managed dedicated boxes and co-lo services.
On Dec 17, 1:16 pm, Bobinson K B <bobin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a very interesting topic. I am of View 1. When large public
> providers are are able to provide SLAs matching co-located service providers
> the need for traditional services will reduce. There may be still
> applications that require co-located services for a small subset of
> applications.
>
> Looking forward to hear ideas from more people.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Bobinson K B
>
> On 17 December 2010 21:53, Tim Cramer <timothy.cra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I believe that co-lo will be vital for any high performance applications in
> > the cloud.
>
> > Tim
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2010, at 9:33 AM, "jason-stevens.com" <silversc...@gmail.com>
>
> > I believe that co-lo will be vital for any high performance applications in
> > the cloud.
>
> > Tim
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,
> >http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> > > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > > Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD
> > at
> > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> > at
> > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> > downloadable versions at
> >http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmland
> >http://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
>
> > > ~~~~~
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Cloud Computing" group.
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>
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> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
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> > Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
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> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
Adwait Ullal
Dec 17, 2010, 2:30:41 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Is IaaS by it's very nature Colo ... albeit in a virtualized manner? Perhaps it should be VaaS :)
Happy Holidays!
--
~~~~~
UP 2010 Conference: http://www.up-con.com
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Tim Cramer
Dec 17, 2010, 5:30:46 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I agree Ray, the term colo will die, the semantics of what Co-lo
does may not die. In some instances, you'll have SLA's that will
require the data or network to be co-located in order to achieve the
SLA. Maybe that's a better way of looking at it than mucking with
the terminology.
Tim
Tim
Miha Ahronovitz
Dec 17, 2010, 5:23:42 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
VaaS is not a cloud, if it ever exists.
So as Ray clearly stated, whatever we call co-location today will
become a cloud, or disappear.
Miha
On Dec 17, 11:30 am, Adwait Ullal <adwait.ul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is IaaS by it's very nature Colo ... albeit in a virtualized manner? Perhaps
> it should be VaaS :)
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> - Adwait
> --
> Adwait Ullal
>
> w:http://www.adwait.com
> p: (408) 898-2581
>
> > UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
So as Ray clearly stated, whatever we call co-location today will
become a cloud, or disappear.
Miha
On Dec 17, 11:30 am, Adwait Ullal <adwait.ul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is IaaS by it's very nature Colo ... albeit in a virtualized manner? Perhaps
> it should be VaaS :)
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> - Adwait
> --
> Adwait Ullal
>
> w:http://www.adwait.com
> p: (408) 898-2581
>
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,
> >http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
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> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
Ray Nugent
Dec 17, 2010, 3:55:32 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I would be surprised if that ratio weren't higher. Think not only about the cost but also the time to deploy. Colo is slow, weeks or more to deploy. Cloud is almost instant by comparison.
You can always get more money, but you can never get more time...
Ray
You can always get more money, but you can never get more time...
Ray
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 10:42:53 AM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Has cloud computing killed co-location
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jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 4:06:49 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Yes, this is a good point, but considering the cost savings and
reduction in complexity and the fact that you get near granular access
to hardware via IaaS offerings why bother?
I guess we could revert to the 'security' and 'compliance' issues, but
these look like they may be sorting themselves out in the near future.
Okay, So I agree 'hardware' ownership is a big point, although this
appears to becoming less and less important.
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, Ray Nugent <rnug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Because he wants to own the hardware?
>
> Ray
>
> ________________________________
> From: jason-stevens.com <silversc...@gmail.com>
> > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uorget instant access to
> Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmlandhttp://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
reduction in complexity and the fact that you get near granular access
to hardware via IaaS offerings why bother?
I guess we could revert to the 'security' and 'compliance' issues, but
these look like they may be sorting themselves out in the near future.
Okay, So I agree 'hardware' ownership is a big point, although this
appears to becoming less and less important.
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, Ray Nugent <rnug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Because he wants to own the hardware?
>
> Ray
>
> ________________________________
> > > downloadable versions at
> > >http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmland
> > >http://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
>
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jason-stevens.com
Dec 17, 2010, 4:12:16 PM12/17/10
to Cloud Computing
Adwait, I have been pondering this very point: Is IaaS simply a
virtualized co-located server except you do not own the hardware, the
hosting company does?
Thus, VaaS may well be an apt term. I guess if the company consuming a
colocation service from a provider loads a Vsphere or Xen server on
top the box he in sense becoming an IaaS provider although I not sure
this is strictly correct.
Or another way, to frame this question: If you had a co-located box
would you move strive towards a Iaas + PaaS + SaaS model or simply the
last two. I realize this is a very subjective question and very broad
but I am attempting to distill this answer in the contact of the
original question.
On Dec 17, 2:30 pm, Adwait Ullal <adwait.ul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is IaaS by it's very nature Colo ... albeit in a virtualized manner? Perhaps
> it should be VaaS :)
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> - Adwait
> --
> Adwait Ullal
>
> w:http://www.adwait.com
> p: (408) 898-2581
>
> > UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
virtualized co-located server except you do not own the hardware, the
hosting company does?
Thus, VaaS may well be an apt term. I guess if the company consuming a
colocation service from a provider loads a Vsphere or Xen server on
top the box he in sense becoming an IaaS provider although I not sure
this is strictly correct.
Or another way, to frame this question: If you had a co-located box
would you move strive towards a Iaas + PaaS + SaaS model or simply the
last two. I realize this is a very subjective question and very broad
but I am attempting to distill this answer in the contact of the
original question.
On Dec 17, 2:30 pm, Adwait Ullal <adwait.ul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is IaaS by it's very nature Colo ... albeit in a virtualized manner? Perhaps
> it should be VaaS :)
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> - Adwait
> --
> Adwait Ullal
>
> w:http://www.adwait.com
> p: (408) 898-2581
>
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,
> >http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,
Ray Nugent
Dec 17, 2010, 6:01:59 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
VaaS never existed nor should it ever...
From: Miha Ahronovitz <myinne...@gmail.com>
To: Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 2:23:42 PM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Has cloud computing killed co-location
UP-Start Cloud Awards http://www.up-con.com/awards
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Ray Nugent
Dec 17, 2010, 5:56:04 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Separation Anxiety...:-)
From: jason-stevens.com <silve...@gmail.com>
To: Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 1:06:49 PM
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matt thompson
Dec 17, 2010, 8:44:45 PM12/17/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Tim,
What we are seeing is that "co-lo" is already dead for medium sized customers, and quickly dying for small (incl. start ups). Everything is IaaS at the low end (even the classic hosters [of which we have 000's of as partners ww]. The vast majority of these guys are trying to move into offering a "hosted cloud" model.
Some of the leaders in this space (like Rackspace) are starting up engineering efforts to build pieces of their own infrastructure software (db, management, etc.), others will pull off the shelf pieces together as part of their cloud hosting stack.
We are also starting to see the emergence of vertically-focused IaaS players (gov't and manufacturing specifically) to address specific markets.
- Matt
Mattt Thompson
Cloud Guy@Microsoft
--- On Fri, 12/17/10, Tim Cramer <timothy...@gmail.com> wrote: |
Ray Nugent
Dec 18, 2010, 11:23:08 AM12/18/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
We see all levels of hosting scrambling to become cloud providers. (Almost a panic as they are seeing their customers flee to Amazon.) The big guys like Rackspace are pulling out the stops with efforts like OpenStack to try to slow the migration. Not sure how that's working yet. Enterprises are doing the math on Private vs Public clouds and evaluating what's a real enterprise product vs a cloud washed product from their traditional enterprise vendors who are scrambling to buy start ups to help answer that question.
2011 is going to be a pivotal year for cloud computing in my opinion...
Ray
2011 is going to be a pivotal year for cloud computing in my opinion...
Ray
From: matt thompson <oneyel...@yahoo.com>
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 5:44:45 PM
|
|
|
|
|
jason-stevens.com
Dec 18, 2010, 11:19:58 AM12/18/10
to Cloud Computing
Hey Matt,
I agree, that a number of customers who have existing dedicated
servers or col-located facilities may wish to immediately move their
non-critical apps to SaaS and even some of their more NB apps.
But, surely there would also be a number of customers on dedicated or
colos (trad and managed) who would simply like to extend their
configuration into further cloud models using hybrid approaches or
bridge-clouds rather than completely dispending with their colo?
I am thinking specifically of products such as "CloudSwitch"
http://www.cloudswitch.com/ which allow you to point-and-click your
data center into the cloud, perhaps even IaaS, without losing the
ownership of hardware via colo?
Or recent parallel developments with Amazon announcing their new
VMimport tool to import on-premise/hosted cloud VMs into the Amazon
EC2? http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/vmimport/
What I am getting at is since a number of enterprises have complex IT
configurations or are hesitant to embrace the cloud due to security
and compliance considerations may simply wish to keep things 'as-is'
but use 'connectors' to gain some traction (and benefit) from cloud
computing.
In other words, is a hybrid-setup not going to become more popular
rather than the complete eliminiation of colo configs?
Thanks
Jason
On Dec 17, 8:44 pm, matt thompson <oneyellowt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> What we are seeing is that "co-lo" is already dead for medium sized customers, and quickly dying for small (incl. start ups). Everything is IaaS at the low end (even the classic hosters [of which we have 000's of as partners ww]. The vast majority of these guys are trying to move into offering a "hosted cloud" model.
>
> Some of the leaders in this space (like Rackspace) are starting up engineering efforts to build pieces of their own infrastructure software (db, management, etc.), others will pull off the shelf pieces together as part of their cloud hosting stack.
>
> We are also starting to see the emergence of vertically-focused IaaS players (gov't and manufacturing specifically) to address specific markets.
>
> - Matt
>
> Mattt Thompson
> Cloud Guy@Microsoft
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Tim Cramer <timothy.cra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/...get instant access to downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmlandhttp://cloudslam...
I agree, that a number of customers who have existing dedicated
servers or col-located facilities may wish to immediately move their
non-critical apps to SaaS and even some of their more NB apps.
But, surely there would also be a number of customers on dedicated or
colos (trad and managed) who would simply like to extend their
configuration into further cloud models using hybrid approaches or
bridge-clouds rather than completely dispending with their colo?
I am thinking specifically of products such as "CloudSwitch"
http://www.cloudswitch.com/ which allow you to point-and-click your
data center into the cloud, perhaps even IaaS, without losing the
ownership of hardware via colo?
Or recent parallel developments with Amazon announcing their new
VMimport tool to import on-premise/hosted cloud VMs into the Amazon
EC2? http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/vmimport/
What I am getting at is since a number of enterprises have complex IT
configurations or are hesitant to embrace the cloud due to security
and compliance considerations may simply wish to keep things 'as-is'
but use 'connectors' to gain some traction (and benefit) from cloud
computing.
In other words, is a hybrid-setup not going to become more popular
rather than the complete eliminiation of colo configs?
Thanks
Jason
On Dec 17, 8:44 pm, matt thompson <oneyellowt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> What we are seeing is that "co-lo" is already dead for medium sized customers, and quickly dying for small (incl. start ups). Everything is IaaS at the low end (even the classic hosters [of which we have 000's of as partners ww]. The vast majority of these guys are trying to move into offering a "hosted cloud" model.
>
> Some of the leaders in this space (like Rackspace) are starting up engineering efforts to build pieces of their own infrastructure software (db, management, etc.), others will pull off the shelf pieces together as part of their cloud hosting stack.
>
> We are also starting to see the emergence of vertically-focused IaaS players (gov't and manufacturing specifically) to address specific markets.
>
> - Matt
>
> Mattt Thompson
> Cloud Guy@Microsoft
>
>
>
>
> From: Tim Cramer <timothy.cra...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Has cloud computing killed co-location
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 2:30 PM
>
> I agree Ray, the term colo will die, the semantics of what Co-lo does may not die. In some instances, you'll have SLA's that will require the data or network to be co-located in order to achieve the SLA. Maybe that's a better way of looking at it than mucking with the terminology.
>
> Tim
>
> On 12/17/2010 12:29 PM, Ray Nugent wrote:
>
> No, it's not. The term colo is going to die and be replaced by cloud. regardless of whether it really is or not.
>
> Ray
>
> From: Tim Cramer <timothy.cra...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Has cloud computing killed co-location
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 2:30 PM
>
> I agree Ray, the term colo will die, the semantics of what Co-lo does may not die. In some instances, you'll have SLA's that will require the data or network to be co-located in order to achieve the SLA. Maybe that's a better way of looking at it than mucking with the terminology.
>
> Tim
>
> On 12/17/2010 12:29 PM, Ray Nugent wrote:
>
> No, it's not. The term colo is going to die and be replaced by cloud. regardless of whether it really is or not.
>
> Ray
>
>
> > > ~~~~~
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Daniel Matthis
Dec 19, 2010, 10:07:02 AM12/19/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Colos (depending on location) may be able to branch into the high frequency trading space, (http://www.kurzweilai.net/when-the-speed-of-light-is-too-slow)
--
- Daniel
That said I don't think Colo's will necessarily die. If anything they will just add capacity to various cloud platforms.
That all said I've yet to see a public cloud that can match the resources I have from a manage colo. You can get a shared linux host for less than $5 a month and host your own little webpage with e-mail, storage, and your own web presence. If you go to a cloud provider you get a very small amount of resources for free and then the pricing jumps significantly. In short colo/hosted sites can still have a price advantage for some markets, especially developers learning/developing new websites.
Take EC2 for example. It's $0.085 per hour (of use) on the linux tier. If I use it only 10 hours a day 5 days a week that is $4.25. My shared host I use now could meet that demand and cost $5 a month. It's just not economical for everything to move to EC2. Now if I had grown my site to needing more processing power and significantly increased my customer base then EC2 might we more economical.
As far as I have seen public cloud economics plays more to the medium to large businesses not small businesses, mom/pop stores, or small developers.
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--
- Daniel
Daniel Drozdzewski
Dec 19, 2010, 7:08:52 PM12/19/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Daniel,
Some really good points there, but please mind that the global
arbitrage in high frequency trading is all about private
infrastructures. It's easy to see how big bucks will get spent to get
the 'LO' and avoid at any price the 'CO' as the exlusivity of location
will be the only physical advantage.
Also it is not pure cpu quant or bandwidth price that is advantageous
in cloud, but elasticity with pay per use pricing. In other words what
efforts would you need to scale your service up 10-fold just to scale
it down again? Twice a day? That elasticity and instrumentation add
complexity and incur time & energy costs, hence units are cheaper with
colo but in the long dynamic run with big amplitudes in demand cloud
should be cheaper.
> --
> - Daniel
>
>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~
> UP 2010 Conference: http://www.up-con.com
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--
Daniel Drozdzewski
Sean Patrick Tario
Dec 20, 2010, 7:06:34 PM12/20/10
to Cloud Computing
Jason,
As someone who's sold colocation and "cloud" private dedicated and
managed hosting services over the past 5 years to companies both large
and small, for what it's worth, I'm seeing the evolution of most SMBs
from "in house" colo to private dedicated hosting or datacenter colo.
As a %, more are moving to outsourced colo vs. a "cloud" or hosted
environment... even in Silicon Valley, where you would think that
decision makers would be more sophisticated in understanding the
advantages of "the cloud" vs. owning/managing the hardware.
Large firms need to have control over their infrastructure for
security and application optimization purposes, and thus until an
elastic cloud service such as AWS can offer the type of security
compliance and resource optimization that a dedicated environment can
offer, Enterprise will need to own their own "clouds" leveraging the
likes of Cloud.com, RightScale, ect. to convert their own hardware
into a virtual cloud environment.
10 years from now, datacenter companies and hosting companies will
continue to merge, creating more secure dedicated hosting and managed
hosting environments that will look like a virtual cloud to their end
users. Those making the transition from "in house" colo to outsourced
colo in a datacenter will likely by then understand that they are not
experts in IT Infrastructure and the cost of pushing their business
applications and internal IT resources to a hosted environment will
have drastically increased.
End of the day, ALL CLOUD CUSTOMERS ARE COLO CUSTOMERS as whomever the
underlying provider of resources is will need to purchase power/space
from a datacenter provider somewhere. So, the question you're really
asking should be "how many IT organizations will move from an
outsourced colocation environment to a hosted or elastic cloud
environment over the next 5-10 years?"
Hope this is helpful.
Sean Patrick Tario
linkedin.com/in/seanpatricktario
On Dec 19, 4:08 pm, Daniel Drozdzewski <daniel.drozdzew...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > UP-Start Cloud Awardshttp://www.up-con.com/awards
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
>
> - Show quoted text -
As someone who's sold colocation and "cloud" private dedicated and
managed hosting services over the past 5 years to companies both large
and small, for what it's worth, I'm seeing the evolution of most SMBs
from "in house" colo to private dedicated hosting or datacenter colo.
As a %, more are moving to outsourced colo vs. a "cloud" or hosted
environment... even in Silicon Valley, where you would think that
decision makers would be more sophisticated in understanding the
advantages of "the cloud" vs. owning/managing the hardware.
Large firms need to have control over their infrastructure for
security and application optimization purposes, and thus until an
elastic cloud service such as AWS can offer the type of security
compliance and resource optimization that a dedicated environment can
offer, Enterprise will need to own their own "clouds" leveraging the
likes of Cloud.com, RightScale, ect. to convert their own hardware
into a virtual cloud environment.
10 years from now, datacenter companies and hosting companies will
continue to merge, creating more secure dedicated hosting and managed
hosting environments that will look like a virtual cloud to their end
users. Those making the transition from "in house" colo to outsourced
colo in a datacenter will likely by then understand that they are not
experts in IT Infrastructure and the cost of pushing their business
applications and internal IT resources to a hosted environment will
have drastically increased.
End of the day, ALL CLOUD CUSTOMERS ARE COLO CUSTOMERS as whomever the
underlying provider of resources is will need to purchase power/space
from a datacenter provider somewhere. So, the question you're really
asking should be "how many IT organizations will move from an
outsourced colocation environment to a hosted or elastic cloud
environment over the next 5-10 years?"
Hope this is helpful.
Sean Patrick Tario
linkedin.com/in/seanpatricktario
On Dec 19, 4:08 pm, Daniel Drozdzewski <daniel.drozdzew...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Daniel,
>
> Some really good points there, but please mind that the global
> arbitrage in high frequency trading is all about private
> infrastructures. It's easy to see how big bucks will get spent to get
> the 'LO' and avoid at any price the 'CO' as the exlusivity of location
> will be the only physical advantage.
>
> Also it is not pure cpu quant or bandwidth price that is advantageous
> in cloud, but elasticity with pay per use pricing. In other words what
> efforts would you need to scale your service up 10-fold just to scale
> it down again? Twice a day? That elasticity and instrumentation add
> complexity and incur time & energy costs, hence units are cheaper with
> colo but in the long dynamic run with big amplitudes in demand cloud
> should be cheaper.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, December 19, 2010, Daniel Matthis <daniel.matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Colos (depending on location) may be able to branch into the high frequency trading space, (http://www.kurzweilai.net/when-the-speed-of-light-is-too-slow)
> > That said I don't think Colo's will necessarily die. If anything they will just add capacity to various cloud platforms.
> > That all said I've yet to see a public cloud that can match the resources I have from a manage colo. You can get a shared linux host for less than $5 a month and host your own little webpage with e-mail, storage, and your own web presence. If you go to a cloud provider you get a very small amount of resources for free and then the pricing jumps significantly. In short colo/hosted sites can still have a price advantage for some markets, especially developers learning/developing new websites.
>
> > Take EC2 for example. It's $0.085 per hour (of use) on the linux tier. If I use it only 10 hours a day 5 days a week that is $4.25. My shared host I use now could meet that demand and cost $5 a month. It's just not economical for everything to move to EC2. Now if I had grown my site to needing more processing power and significantly increased my customer base then EC2 might we more economical.
>
> > As far as I have seen public cloud economics plays more to the medium to large businesses not small businesses, mom/pop stores, or small developers.
>
>
> Some really good points there, but please mind that the global
> arbitrage in high frequency trading is all about private
> infrastructures. It's easy to see how big bucks will get spent to get
> the 'LO' and avoid at any price the 'CO' as the exlusivity of location
> will be the only physical advantage.
>
> Also it is not pure cpu quant or bandwidth price that is advantageous
> in cloud, but elasticity with pay per use pricing. In other words what
> efforts would you need to scale your service up 10-fold just to scale
> it down again? Twice a day? That elasticity and instrumentation add
> complexity and incur time & energy costs, hence units are cheaper with
> colo but in the long dynamic run with big amplitudes in demand cloud
> should be cheaper.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, December 19, 2010, Daniel Matthis <daniel.matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Colos (depending on location) may be able to branch into the high frequency trading space, (http://www.kurzweilai.net/when-the-speed-of-light-is-too-slow)
> > That said I don't think Colo's will necessarily die. If anything they will just add capacity to various cloud platforms.
> > That all said I've yet to see a public cloud that can match the resources I have from a manage colo. You can get a shared linux host for less than $5 a month and host your own little webpage with e-mail, storage, and your own web presence. If you go to a cloud provider you get a very small amount of resources for free and then the pricing jumps significantly. In short colo/hosted sites can still have a price advantage for some markets, especially developers learning/developing new websites.
>
> > Take EC2 for example. It's $0.085 per hour (of use) on the linux tier. If I use it only 10 hours a day 5 days a week that is $4.25. My shared host I use now could meet that demand and cost $5 a month. It's just not economical for everything to move to EC2. Now if I had grown my site to needing more processing power and significantly increased my customer base then EC2 might we more economical.
>
> > As far as I have seen public cloud economics plays more to the medium to large businesses not small businesses, mom/pop stores, or small developers.
>
> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 10:19 AM, jason-stevens.com <silversc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey Matt,
>
> > I agree, that a number of customers who have existing dedicated
> > servers or col-located facilities may wish to immediately move their
> > non-critical apps to SaaS and even some of their more NB apps.
>
> > But, surely there would also be a number of customers on dedicated or
> > colos (trad and managed) who would simply like to extend their
> > configuration into further cloud models using hybrid approaches or
> > bridge-clouds rather than completely dispending with their colo?
>
> > I am thinking specifically of products such as "CloudSwitch"
> >http://www.cloudswitch.com/which allow you to point-and-click your
> > Hey Matt,
>
> > I agree, that a number of customers who have existing dedicated
> > servers or col-located facilities may wish to immediately move their
> > non-critical apps to SaaS and even some of their more NB apps.
>
> > But, surely there would also be a number of customers on dedicated or
> > colos (trad and managed) who would simply like to extend their
> > configuration into further cloud models using hybrid approaches or
> > bridge-clouds rather than completely dispending with their colo?
>
> > I am thinking specifically of products such as "CloudSwitch"
> > data center into the cloud, perhaps even IaaS, without losing the
> > ownership of hardware via colo?
>
> > Or recent parallel developments with Amazon announcing their new
> > VMimport tool to import on-premise/hosted cloud VMs into the Amazon
> > EC2?http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/vmimport/
> > ownership of hardware via colo?
>
> > Or recent parallel developments with Amazon announcing their new
> > VMimport tool to import on-premise/hosted cloud VMs into the Amazon
> > Official Cloud Slam websites -http://cloudslam.org,http://cloudslam10.comandhttp://cloudslam09.com
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Follow us on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/cloudcomp_groupor @cloudcomp_group
> > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > Buy hundreds of conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.htmlandhttp://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
>
> > ~~~~~
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>
> --
> Daniel Drozdzewski- Hide quoted text -
> > ~~~~~
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cloud Computing" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cloud-computi...@googlegroups.com
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Daniel Matthis
Dec 21, 2010, 11:57:09 AM12/21/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Daniel,
from a datacenter provider somewhere."
Yes that point is understood. My contention is that Cloud computing does not fit all users. There will still be a market for the traditional colo. However just as Sean Patrick has pointed out "End of the day, ALL CLOUD CUSTOMERS ARE COLO CUSTOMERS as whomever the underlying provider of resources is will need to purchase power/space
from a datacenter provider somewhere."
Now that doesn't mean that the current colo landscape will be the same. I'm guessing some big players may end up buying smaller players for their space and infrastructure.
- Daniel
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