[ANN] New clojure.org!

[Alex Miller]

The new http://clojure.org is alive!

Most of the content on the site is the same content as before (but in a new shinier package). However, the site is now sourced from the public repo at https://github.com/clojure/clojure-site and is open for contribution. Contributions (via pull request) require a signed Clojure Contributor Agreement, just as with Clojure itself - if you've already signed it, then you don't need to do anything additional.

We have been working on several new guides for the new Guides section and you can see things in process at https://github.com/clojure/clojure-site/issues - feel free to discuss on issues there or threads here with a [DOC] indicator. Or on the #docs channel on Slack.

Big thanks to Tom Hickey on the design for the new site! As always, he was a pleasure to work with.

Alex

[Marc O'Morain]

Very nice! Good job all.

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[Stephen Gilardi]

+1 great fresh look and process!

[Colin Yates]

+1 this is really great.

[JeremyS]

The new website is great !

Cheers,

Jeremy.

[Sean Corfield]

Very nice!

Also good to see a number of Pull Requests already and some discussion in Issues as well!

Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

[Laurens Van Houtven]

Huge fan of the redesign! Unfortunately HTTPS is still broken, serving with a CloudFront cert.

[Alex Miller]

The clojure.org has never, and does not now, support https. It is an entirely static site, so it is not high on my priority list to work on.

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[Ritchie Cai]

New site looks great! 

I feel like https://clojuredocs.org should be added to the community resources. Personally, it's my main reference website, and it has been extremely helpful. I'm sure it will be for other people too.

[Laurens Van Houtven]

Hi,

On Jan 14, 2016, at 12:34 PM, Alex Miller <al...@puredanger.com> wrote:

The clojure.org has never, and does not now, support https. It is an entirely static site, so it is not high on my priority list to work on.

Sure; but it does respond to HTTPS requests with a bogus cert, instead of simply not supporting HTTPS at all.

Since it’s HTTP, an attacker on a local network can fairly trivially (by which I mean: using off the shelf tools) make that “download Clojure” link point to whatever they want, which is my main concern. 

I don’t know if this is an option for you, but CloudFlare will give you a fairly hassle-free (and money-free) TLS termination option.

lvh

[Leon Grapenthin]

Amazing. I really like the clean and minimalistic design.

Congratulations!

[Alex Miller]

Noted, I will bump it up the priority list.

[Alex Miller]

Hi Ritchie,

There are actually two different places where "resources" exist (just a by-product of the transition into the new structure really):

- http://clojure.org/guides/getting_started - has a ton of things at the end, including clojuredocs 

- http://clojure.org/community/resources - more obvious and presumably what you're referring to

I'm going to clean this up and move most of the former to the latter. Thanks for the ping.

Alex

[Howard Lewis Ship]

Long overdue, and an excellent start.  I hope to squeeze in some time to provide some contributions!

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[Michael Cohen]

Awesome! 

Every time - every single time - I've ever pulled up the api docs in a browser, for a split second I feel a tinge of embarrassment to be part of a community that has a language this good but a docs site that *#@&$#!& bad.

The new site is a quantum leap forward. Everyone involved take a bow. I'm ashamed I haven't contributed anything to it. I vow to remedy that in the new year.

Congratulations to every involved, and the community. 

[Eunmin Kim]

Great!!

[Bozhidar Batsov]

Great work! This was long overdue, but I'm extremely happy we made this solid first step! 

On 15 January 2016 at 04:11, Eunmin Kim <telepo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great!!

[Mars0i]

I like the new look a lot.  Thanks.

One comment: The cheatsheet now links to Grimoire pages that seem to be for Clojure 1.6.0.  The old default cheatsheet linked to ClojureDocs, which looks better and includes a few more useful features, such as links to related functions and to the source.

[Alan Moore]

Great job everyone! I really like the layout and the color scheme, very pleasing to the eye and professional looking.

My *only* constructive comment is that a total newbie landing on clojure.org is faced with a lot of reading when maybe they should be presented with super basic code examples, just to give them a general feel of what Clojure code looks like. Much of this does exist on the site but is maybe less accessible and not as up-front as it could be. I'll submit some suggestions via the public repo and do my part to help out :-)

All in all this is looking great and I appreciate the hard work in getting it to this point. Thanks Alex for organizing the effort!

Alan

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 7:45:06 AM UTC-8, Alex Miller wrote:

[Timothy Washington]

+1 Looks good.

[Brent Millare]

I think another useful way to look at the issue that Alan brings up is to view it as a top down vs bottom up approach to learning the language. The site favors a top down approach, leading with the rationale and concepts rather than examples that can act like hooks that encourage the reader to investigate further even without complete understanding. While I'm more of a default top down thinker myself, I know and respect many bottom up thinkers. I believe enhancing the website to address both learning approaches will increase its usability not to just beginners but also to experienced programmers.

[Alex Miller]

The site does does not have any "learning" material at all. The material on the existing site is intended to be authoritative reference material, written by Rich (or in a few cases me). 

We will add more learning / getting started material - this is definitely the biggest gap in the existing site (although things like Clojure for the Brave and True are great alternatives).

We actually have a body of work in this area already and I will be integrating it as I have time to.

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[Leon Grapenthin]

Have you considered linking to or embedding Rich Hickeys videos "Clojure for Java programmers", "Clojure for Lisp programmers" and "Clojure data structures"?

When I was learning the language they served as excellent introductory material and among facts really conveyed a "feeling" for the language. Maybe David Nolen could add a ClojureScript for Javascript developers in similar style?

[Mars0i]

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 2:36:46 PM UTC-6, Mars0i wrote:

I like the new look a lot.  Thanks.

One comment: The cheatsheet now links to Grimoire pages that seem to be for Clojure 1.6.0.  The old default cheatsheet linked to ClojureDocs, which looks better and includes a few more useful features, such as links to related functions and to the source.

Fixed now.  Thanks!

[Reid McKenzie]

Hum... if this is true it's because I've diverged from Andy's cheatsheet builds and haven't synced back up. Grimoire has 1.7 content and will promptly support 1.8. Looking into this.

Reid

On 01/15/2016 02:36 PM, Mars0i wrote:

I like the new look a lot.  Thanks.

One comment: The cheatsheet now links to Grimoire pages that seem to be for Clojure 1.6.0.  The old default cheatsheet linked to ClojureDocs, which looks better and includes a few more useful features, such as links to related functions and to the source.

[Alex Miller]

Actually, I was using an old version of the cheatsheet and have updated.

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[Reid McKenzie]

Okay. Thanks for the quick reply Alex.

Reid

[Reid McKenzie]

That this is an afterthought I suppose indicates my priorities, but if you have particular complaints about the present design of Grimoire I'd be delighted to hear them over on the bugtracker [1]. I'm well aware that Grimoire lacks some amount of UI/web N+1 polish, however as I'm no UI/UX expert progress here is and will remain slow without specific feedback as my primary concerns are example, notes and their value add over the official docs.

Reid

[1] https://github.com/clojure-grimoire/grimoire/issues

On 01/15/2016 02:36 PM, Mars0i wrote:

I like the new look a lot.  Thanks.

One comment: The cheatsheet now links to Grimoire pages that seem to be for Clojure 1.6.0.  The old default cheatsheet linked to ClojureDocs, which looks better and includes a few more useful features, such as links to related functions and to the source.

[Mars0i]

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 6:24:06 PM UTC-6, Reid McKenzie wrote:

That this is an afterthought I suppose indicates my priorities, but if you have particular complaints about the present design of Grimoire I'd be delighted to hear them over on the bugtracker [1]. I'm well aware that Grimoire lacks some amount of UI/web N+1 polish, however as I'm no UI/UX expert progress here is and will remain slow without specific feedback as my primary concerns are example, notes and their value add over the official docs.

Reid

[1] https://github.com/clojure-grimoire/grimoire/issues

Thanks Reid.   I'm a little confused about the relationships between the goals of ClojureDocs and Grimoire.  They both provide community-supported documentation.   The top-level interfaces are different of course, but I'm not sure whether there are differences in functionality once one knows the ins and outs of each system.  (I see now that some of what I thought was available only in ClojureDocs is available on Grimoire as well.)

Are ClojureDocs and Grimoire in competition?  If so, there's nothing necessarily wrong with that; each person can choose what seems best.  Perhaps there is this drawback: If a user adds an example or comment to one, it won't appear in the other.  Given that the core documentation in each is the same, one would have to scan through two pages for a single function in order to see whether there's any useful information in one but not the other.

[Reid McKenzie]

Grimoire was originally built to replace ClojureDocs when it had been
inactive for some time, and as it turns out mere months prior to the big
update which is now live. That I continue to operate Grimoire now that
ClojureDocs has been updated is I suppose competition at some level.

Yes ClojureDocs and Grimoire use independent and unsynchronized content
stores. Originally Grimoire started with all of ClojureDocs' examples
unaltered. I put a bunch of time into reformatting and editing them for
Grimoire this summer. I've shared these changes with zkim although I
don't think he's done anything with them yet.

As to documentation, ClojureDocs serves the default unmodified Clojure
docstrings. My goal with Grimoire is to largely replace these famously
curt strings with more fully formed articles and commentary. This is
very much a demand directed operation, with the worklist [1] or personal
points of friction being used to direct priorities.

The examples on both ClojureDocs and Grimoire are adequate. I don't
think there's value being lost between one or the other there.
ClojureDocs has a huge Google PageRank lead which I don't think it's
worthwhile to invest time competing against. Hence my goal has been to
provide augmented docstrings which are I hope more helpful.

Reid

[1] conj.io/worklist

[Alan Moore]

Reid,

Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize the differences. I've been landing on clojuredocs primarily due to page rank but will be sure to include/check grimoire because I want/need the enhanced doc strings.

Terseness is great when you are an expert but I'm not there yet and can still use the extra help with some of the less frequently used functions.

Thanks for your efforts putting grimoire together, much appreciated.

Alan
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[Mars0i]

Reid, thanks very much for the explanation, and thanks for all of the work.  Knowing that the docstrings may be different on Grimoire is very helpful.

[Alex Miller]

You can now access https://clojure.org, thanks for the push.

[Colin Yates]

It’s probably just me but I always think tech companies that don’t do SSL reflects badly on them, like they couldn’t be bothered :-). Can’t really justify that prejudice, but anyways, glad this is working now.

(There is also http://searchengineland.com/google-starts-giving-ranking-boost-secure-httpsssl-sites-199446).

[Alan Thompson]

Alex - I could not find a link to the Clojure.org github project on the clojure.org site. Should one be added under "Contributing" somewhere?

[Alex Miller]

Well there's a whole page about it at the link mentioned in the message below - https://github.com/clojure/clojure-site

I also have an outstanding ticket to add a link from every page to the source file in the footer. I think that will be sufficient.

[Alex Miller]

Shoot, that was not the link I meant. I meant: http://clojure.org/community/contributing_site