Tish James Questions
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stephanie bergsma
Jul 19, 2009, 12:37:39 AM7/19/09
to clintonh...@googlegroups.com
pls see emails below
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: stephanie bergsma <stephani...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Subject: Fwd: Dog Run Followup Questions
To: clintonhilldogrun group <nor...@googlegroups.com>
Hi All,
I have been working on the dog run project slowly but surely. The email below is the latest communication with Leticia James. Please let me know if I am representing your opinion accurately of if you have other suggestions. Please see her response and advise any comments you have. I read her explanation and I still don't understand why a fenced in area cant co-exist at Fort Greene Park. Do you?
I also spoke with her on the phone for about 20 minutes and she answered a lot of our questions. For example: Many dog owners in the area have suggested the empty lot on the north east corner of Myrtle and Waverly near Jive Turkey and Bank of America. Several people have advised that this has been vacant for 10 / 20 / 30 years. Turns out that the property has been in legal limbo but is now finally out and the property is sold to become affordable housing.
Also she told me that community members have been attempting to get a fenced dog run for 5 years now. She says they have not been able to find a spot. She is 100% behind us if we can find a spot, we don't need to convince her that a fenced dog run is desired or needed.
I am looking to squeak in with a small basic dog run and prove that our community will use it a ton. We can work from there if what we get is not enough or temporary. The other goal is that we have to be clear not to change anything about Fort Greene's (unfenced) free run. This is not negotiable. We cannot un-do what other community members have worked for. Plus I love free run, it's just that we (Bruce Wayne and I) cant make it except the weekends.
That's it for now. Remember to read below and send everyone your feedback.
-Stephanie
General Coordinator
Clinton Hill Dog Run
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en
-----------------------------------------(email response from Tish):
From: stephanie bergsma <stephani...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Subject: Fwd: Dog Run Followup Questions
To: clintonhilldogrun group <nor...@googlegroups.com>
Hi All,
I have been working on the dog run project slowly but surely. The email below is the latest communication with Leticia James. Please let me know if I am representing your opinion accurately of if you have other suggestions. Please see her response and advise any comments you have. I read her explanation and I still don't understand why a fenced in area cant co-exist at Fort Greene Park. Do you?
I also spoke with her on the phone for about 20 minutes and she answered a lot of our questions. For example: Many dog owners in the area have suggested the empty lot on the north east corner of Myrtle and Waverly near Jive Turkey and Bank of America. Several people have advised that this has been vacant for 10 / 20 / 30 years. Turns out that the property has been in legal limbo but is now finally out and the property is sold to become affordable housing.
Also she told me that community members have been attempting to get a fenced dog run for 5 years now. She says they have not been able to find a spot. She is 100% behind us if we can find a spot, we don't need to convince her that a fenced dog run is desired or needed.
I am looking to squeak in with a small basic dog run and prove that our community will use it a ton. We can work from there if what we get is not enough or temporary. The other goal is that we have to be clear not to change anything about Fort Greene's (unfenced) free run. This is not negotiable. We cannot un-do what other community members have worked for. Plus I love free run, it's just that we (Bruce Wayne and I) cant make it except the weekends.
That's it for now. Remember to read below and send everyone your feedback.
-Stephanie
General Coordinator
Clinton Hill Dog Run
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: stephanie bergsma
Date: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM
Subject: Dog Run Followup Questions
From: stephanie bergsma
Date: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM
Subject: Dog Run Followup Questions
To: lja...@council.nyc.gov
I do understand that in any location you will probably hear push back from the community who is already using that space. The question becomes whether that community is larger than the un-served dog run community in fort greene and clinton hill. My argument is that there are many many parks for the community to go to. If a dog run was to transform one corner of just one park, the rest of the community would still have options for park use. As it stands, anyone employed 9-6 (i hope there are still a lot of us left!) cannot meet in a safe spot and exercise our dogs.
Ideas for locations:
Hi Tish,
Thank you for taking the time to speak with me on the phone a week ago. Before I get started asking around about a dog run there is one point I am still unclear on. What is the reason that, at Fort Greene Park, it must be either off leash hours -or- a fenced in dog run? I know I asked you and you tried to explain it to me, but I still do not understanding why we cant have both in one park?
The reason I had hoped to find or create a fenced in dog run is that Free Run hours are not usable with a 9-6 work schedule. I wont be out after 9pm with my small dog and I cant make the 2 mile round trip to the park and have time for my pup to play before 9am weekdays (the other dogs are usually there between 7:30/8am to 9am).
I do understand that in any location you will probably hear push back from the community who is already using that space. The question becomes whether that community is larger than the un-served dog run community in fort greene and clinton hill. My argument is that there are many many parks for the community to go to. If a dog run was to transform one corner of just one park, the rest of the community would still have options for park use. As it stands, anyone employed 9-6 (i hope there are still a lot of us left!) cannot meet in a safe spot and exercise our dogs.
Ideas for locations:
a) Non Park spaces:I saw that there was a brainstorming meeting about what to do with the stone paved open space on Lafayette between St. James and Classon. I know a dog run aspect was suggested there.
Also, I attended the brainstorming meeting under the BQE where I heard & made the same suggestion. Do you think either of these could happen?
Do you think it would it be possible to be granted temporary stewardship of an open space for a dog run? In that way we could just borrow the space and see if the community will use it. Based on the community use we could see if there was cause to secure a permanent space. Maybe if the community displays their desire to use either of those spaces in a temporary way, a dog run would be drawn into the plans for the permanent redesign of that space?
Also, I attended the brainstorming meeting under the BQE where I heard & made the same suggestion. Do you think either of these could happen?
Do you think it would it be possible to be granted temporary stewardship of an open space for a dog run? In that way we could just borrow the space and see if the community will use it. Based on the community use we could see if there was cause to secure a permanent space. Maybe if the community displays their desire to use either of those spaces in a temporary way, a dog run would be drawn into the plans for the permanent redesign of that space?
b) Would you direct me to the groups I should talk to about the already fenced/gated grassy area in Underwood Park at Lafayette and Washington? This is a very dog run friendly set up with benches all around for easy watching. We would not need any $ to change this into a dog run! (it does not even need a double gate since it is already inside the park's gate.)
c) I do have a new location idea: Parham Playground on Clermont between Willoughby and Dekalb. There are 2 sections of this park I have never seen used (see photos attached). These sections would lend well to be separate but adjacent small dog and large dog fenced dog runs. In fact, they are already fenced, with some gates, benches and trash cans. One section is on street level, on the north east corner of the park which is currently "green space" i am guessing (however - pls see photo, its not green because its too shady) making it unused by the community. It is long and narrow and low fenced with a gate already outside the park entrance. This would be ideal for small dogs. It also already has chicken wire at ground level which prevents digging & very small dogs from slipping thru the bars & balls from rolling out through the fence.
The other area is larger square with benches and partial paved perimeter. It is the sunken area directly adjacent to the 1st area and is behind and below the swings which are near the pool. This area would be ideal for larger dogs. I think the two sections could easily be connected without disturbing the flow of the park and without walking dogs thru kid's play areas. There are other much larger seating areas in this park that would not be disturbed.
There are a couple negatives to this location though; 1) it is directly adjacent a school (which could be argued that this raises the risk of children and dogs being harmed. However, there is a risk anywhere and with the easy install of some small "chicken" wire we can easily keep children's fingers from being nipped and dogs from being harmed by swallowing school supplies.) 2) it is a very segmented crowded park with different levels (making it confusing at first how to enter different areas, some existing gate entrances/exits may need to be closed off). It would take very very small amount of $ to change this into a dog run (only 1 gate is needed).
Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you for your time.
Stephanie Bergsma
c) I do have a new location idea: Parham Playground on Clermont between Willoughby and Dekalb. There are 2 sections of this park I have never seen used (see photos attached). These sections would lend well to be separate but adjacent small dog and large dog fenced dog runs. In fact, they are already fenced, with some gates, benches and trash cans. One section is on street level, on the north east corner of the park which is currently "green space" i am guessing (however - pls see photo, its not green because its too shady) making it unused by the community. It is long and narrow and low fenced with a gate already outside the park entrance. This would be ideal for small dogs. It also already has chicken wire at ground level which prevents digging & very small dogs from slipping thru the bars & balls from rolling out through the fence.
The other area is larger square with benches and partial paved perimeter. It is the sunken area directly adjacent to the 1st area and is behind and below the swings which are near the pool. This area would be ideal for larger dogs. I think the two sections could easily be connected without disturbing the flow of the park and without walking dogs thru kid's play areas. There are other much larger seating areas in this park that would not be disturbed.
There are a couple negatives to this location though; 1) it is directly adjacent a school (which could be argued that this raises the risk of children and dogs being harmed. However, there is a risk anywhere and with the easy install of some small "chicken" wire we can easily keep children's fingers from being nipped and dogs from being harmed by swallowing school supplies.) 2) it is a very segmented crowded park with different levels (making it confusing at first how to enter different areas, some existing gate entrances/exits may need to be closed off). It would take very very small amount of $ to change this into a dog run (only 1 gate is needed).
Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you for your time.Stephanie Bergsma
| hide details 12:15 AM (3 minutes ago)
|
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stephanie: nice to hear from you . At a contentious
community meeting a few years ago sponsored by PUPS the dog owner
association in the community, it was decided that off leash hours were
preferable to a dog run. Further, non dog owners at the meeting
recounted several dog bite stories in fort greene park, and argued
against not only extending off leash hours but a dog run, as well. Fort
greene park is very popular and every summer I have to balance
competing interests who all want to use the park. Working with parks
dept we have had to reduce the number of permits because residents
complain about all of the uses being allowed in the park and a plea for
peace and quiet. In regards to parham, I doubt DOE would agree to a
dog run near PS 20. I spearheaded the streetscape project for
lafayette ave which is almost complete. This plan reflects the ideas
from residents of the three towers on lafayette ave. Most of the
residents are seniors and are requesting restoration of belgium blocks
and trees. They have complained in the past about irresponsible dog
owners who walk their dogs on lafayette ave. Therefore, I do not think
it would work at that location. As I stated in our earlier
conversation, Underwood is patronized by several public, private and
church sponsored day care centers during the day and after school
programs. There would be MAJOR push back if a dog run were planned in
this playground. That leaves under the BQE. A dog run is being
considered at this site and at Commodore Barry Park as I stated in our
earlier conversation. I know you do not like the location of Commodore
Barry park and so I will push for the dog run under the BQE when DOT
issues an RFP for that site. I do not know the timing of this project
but will inquire. Please know that a dog run in commodore barry park
would happen sooner since we are renovating that park. It is a very
safe park with a lot of activities and a pool. You should visit the
park sometime soon and see for yourself. Tish
Matt Townsend
Jul 19, 2009, 9:48:04 AM7/19/09
to clintonh...@googlegroups.com
| Personally I think the idea of a dog run under the BQE is an excellent idea. On the days and/or evenings when the rain is falling it would be nice to have a place to take your dog. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, stephanie bergsma <stephani...@gmail.com> wrote: |
Mayumi Shimose Poe
Jul 19, 2009, 10:05:42 AM7/19/09
to clintonh...@googlegroups.com
Under the BQE sounds great.
But just wondering what's wrong with Commodore Barry park? It actually
is a really nice, somewhat underutilized park ... and if they are
already leaning towards allowing a dog park there, I say GO for it.
Cheers,
Mayumi
> fromJames, Letitia <LJa...@council.nyc.gov>
> sender-timeSent at 12:15 AM (GMT-04:00). Current time there: 12:19 AM. ✆
> tostephaniebergsma
> dateSun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM
> subjectRe: Dog Run Followup Questions
> mailed-bycouncil.nyc.gov
--
May in the Bay is now Live from Brooklyn. Check me out at
http://www.mayumishimosepoe.com.
To keep myself humble, I remember that the great William Faulkner once
remarked to an editor: "I know you mean well, but so do I."
“How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to
live.” –David Henry Thoreau
“You are lucky to be one of those people who wishes to build sand
castles with words . . . This is what separates artists from ordinary
people: the belief, deep in our hearts, that if we build our castles
well enough, somehow the ocean won’t wash them away. I think this is a
wonderful kind of person to be.” –Anne Lamott (Bird by Bird, p. 231).
But just wondering what's wrong with Commodore Barry park? It actually
is a really nice, somewhat underutilized park ... and if they are
already leaning towards allowing a dog park there, I say GO for it.
Cheers,
Mayumi
> sender-timeSent at 12:15 AM (GMT-04:00). Current time there: 12:19 AM. ✆
> tostephaniebergsma
> dateSun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM
> subjectRe: Dog Run Followup Questions
> mailed-bycouncil.nyc.gov
> hide details 12:15 AM (3 minutes ago)
> Reply
May in the Bay is now Live from Brooklyn. Check me out at
http://www.mayumishimosepoe.com.
To keep myself humble, I remember that the great William Faulkner once
remarked to an editor: "I know you mean well, but so do I."
“How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to
live.” –David Henry Thoreau
“You are lucky to be one of those people who wishes to build sand
castles with words . . . This is what separates artists from ordinary
people: the belief, deep in our hearts, that if we build our castles
well enough, somehow the ocean won’t wash them away. I think this is a
wonderful kind of person to be.” –Anne Lamott (Bird by Bird, p. 231).
Amy Hecht
Jul 19, 2009, 10:51:52 AM7/19/09
to clintonh...@googlegroups.com
I am one of the original founders of PUPS, and I
was at the contentious meeting Tush described. We were, at the time,
trying to extend off-leash hours during the lesser-used months
of November through March, as they do in Prospect Park. This opened up
a monstrous can of worms whereby some in the community wanted off-
leash abolished in FGP altogether. While we were able to fight back and
secure the current hours (indeed, it is now official NYC law) we
recognized just how tenuous off-leash time is. This why PUPS does not
support a dog run in FGP, because those who oppose dogs off-leash would
quickly rally to end it if there was a dog run to use. And they'd have
a point. Additionally, you mention you don't use the park during
off-leash but surely you are aware of the amount of dogs who do. There
is NO SPACE in FGP that would be both large enough for all these dogs
and that the community as a whole would be willing to give up to a dog
run.
Sounds like under the BQE is the best hope, or Commodore Barry Park (what is your objection to that space?)
There is also a HUGE empty lot bordered by Clermont and Vanderbilt, Park and Flushing. Half of it would already make a large dog run, and it's already fenced, although there is no shade. My husband approached Tish about it some time ago and she said it was slated for housing, but these plans don't always go through. Might be worth it to inquire.
Also proposed has been Cuyler Gore park. There are three separate grassy areas that border the park. (People already use it as an unofficial dog run from time to time.) It would need some additional fencing. I'm sure you will get push back from the community there but you will at any space you propose. My husband and I also tried to get a dog run established in Murray Hill, Manhattan, years ago. Same story: the community acknowledged the need for a run, but the battle always remains where? We ended up moving to Brooklyn, and it got dropped. So I know it's not easy. Good luck!
Amy
Sounds like under the BQE is the best hope, or Commodore Barry Park (what is your objection to that space?)
There is also a HUGE empty lot bordered by Clermont and Vanderbilt, Park and Flushing. Half of it would already make a large dog run, and it's already fenced, although there is no shade. My husband approached Tish about it some time ago and she said it was slated for housing, but these plans don't always go through. Might be worth it to inquire.
Also proposed has been Cuyler Gore park. There are three separate grassy areas that border the park. (People already use it as an unofficial dog run from time to time.) It would need some additional fencing. I'm sure you will get push back from the community there but you will at any space you propose. My husband and I also tried to get a dog run established in Murray Hill, Manhattan, years ago. Same story: the community acknowledged the need for a run, but the battle always remains where? We ended up moving to Brooklyn, and it got dropped. So I know it's not easy. Good luck!
Amy
Werner
Jul 19, 2009, 11:50:02 PM7/19/09
to Clinton Hill Dog Run
So what happened to trying for Steuben Park? have you given up on it?
Also, have you contacted NYCDog to speak to them about starting a dog
run?
On Jul 19, 12:37 am, stephanie bergsma <stephanieberg...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Ideas for locations:*
> *a)* Non Park spaces:I saw that there was a brainstorming meeting about what
> Willoughby and Dekalb<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-&sll=40693239,-73967894&cid=5839509295...>.
> Stephanie Bergsma**
> -----------------------------------------(email response from Tish):
> fromJames, Letitia <LJa...@council.nyc.gov> sender-timeSent at 12:15 AM
> (GMT-04:00). Current time there: 12:19 AM. ✆ tostephaniebergsma
> dateSun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM subjectRe: Dog Run Followup Questions
> mailed-bycouncil.nyc.gov
> IMG_0488.JPG
> 1218KViewDownload
>
> IMG_0487.JPG
> 1284KViewDownload
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> IMG_0474.JPG
> 1636KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -
Also, have you contacted NYCDog to speak to them about starting a dog
run?
On Jul 19, 12:37 am, stephanie bergsma <stephanieberg...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> pls see emails below
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: stephanie bergsma <stephanieberg...@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:32 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Dog Run Followup Questions
> To: clintonhilldogrun group <nor...@googlegroups.com>
>
> Hi All,
> I have been working on the dog run project slowly but surely. The email
> below is the latest communication with Leticia James. Please let me know if
> I am representing your opinion accurately of if you have other suggestions.
> Please see her response and advise any comments you have. I read her
> explanation and I still don't understand why a fenced in area cant co-exist
> at Fort Greene Park. Do you?
>
> I also spoke with her on the phone for about 20 minutes and she answered a
> lot of our questions. For example: Many dog owners in the area have
> suggested the empty lot on the north east corner of Myrtle and
> Waverly<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-&sll=40693239,-73967894&cid=5839509295...>near
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: stephanie bergsma <stephanieberg...@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:32 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Dog Run Followup Questions
> To: clintonhilldogrun group <nor...@googlegroups.com>
>
> Hi All,
> I have been working on the dog run project slowly but surely. The email
> below is the latest communication with Leticia James. Please let me know if
> I am representing your opinion accurately of if you have other suggestions.
> Please see her response and advise any comments you have. I read her
> explanation and I still don't understand why a fenced in area cant co-exist
> at Fort Greene Park. Do you?
>
> I also spoke with her on the phone for about 20 minutes and she answered a
> lot of our questions. For example: Many dog owners in the area have
> suggested the empty lot on the north east corner of Myrtle and
> Jive Turkey and Bank of America. Several people have advised that
> this
> has been vacant for 10 / 20 / 30 years. Turns out that the property has
> been in legal limbo but is now finally out and the property is sold to
> become affordable housing.
>
> Also she told me that community members have been attempting to get a fenced
> dog run for 5 years now. She says they have not been able to find a spot.
> She is 100% behind us if we can find a spot, we don't need to convince her
> that a fenced dog run is desired or needed.
>
> I am looking to squeak in with a small basic dog run and prove that our
> community will use it a ton. We can work from there if what we get is not
> enough or temporary. The other goal is that we have to be clear not to
> change anything about Fort Greene's (unfenced) free run. This is not
> negotiable. We cannot un-do what other community members have worked for.
> Plus I love free run, it's just that we (Bruce Wayne and I) cant make it
> except the weekends.
>
> That's it for now. Remember to read below and send everyone your feedback.
> -Stephanie
> General Coordinator
> Clinton Hill Dog Runhttp://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en
> this
> has been vacant for 10 / 20 / 30 years. Turns out that the property has
> been in legal limbo but is now finally out and the property is sold to
> become affordable housing.
>
> Also she told me that community members have been attempting to get a fenced
> dog run for 5 years now. She says they have not been able to find a spot.
> She is 100% behind us if we can find a spot, we don't need to convince her
> that a fenced dog run is desired or needed.
>
> I am looking to squeak in with a small basic dog run and prove that our
> community will use it a ton. We can work from there if what we get is not
> enough or temporary. The other goal is that we have to be clear not to
> change anything about Fort Greene's (unfenced) free run. This is not
> negotiable. We cannot un-do what other community members have worked for.
> Plus I love free run, it's just that we (Bruce Wayne and I) cant make it
> except the weekends.
>
> That's it for now. Remember to read below and send everyone your feedback.
> -Stephanie
> General Coordinator
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: stephanie bergsma
> Date: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM
> Subject: Dog Run Followup Questions
> To: lja...@council.nyc.gov
>
> Hi Tish,
> Thank you for taking the time to speak with me on the phone a week ago.
> Before I get started asking around about a dog run there is one point I am
> still unclear on. What is the reason that, *at Fort Greene Park*, it must
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: stephanie bergsma
> Date: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 11:18 PM
> Subject: Dog Run Followup Questions
> To: lja...@council.nyc.gov
>
> Hi Tish,
> Thank you for taking the time to speak with me on the phone a week ago.
> Before I get started asking around about a dog run there is one point I am
> be either off leash hours -or- a fenced in dog run? I know I asked you and
> you tried to explain it to me, but I still do not understanding why we cant
> have both in one park?
>
> The reason I had hoped to find or create a fenced in dog run is that Free
> Run hours are not usable with a 9-6 work schedule. I wont be out after 9pm
> with my small dog and I cant make the 2 mile round trip to the park and have
> time for my pup to play before 9am weekdays (the other dogs are usually
> there between 7:30/8am to 9am).
>
> I do understand that in any location you will probably hear push back from
> the community who is already using that space. The question becomes whether
> that community is larger than the un-served dog run community in fort greene
> and clinton hill. My argument is that there are many many parks for the
> community to go to. If a dog run was to transform one corner of just one
> park, the rest of the community would still have options for park use. As
> it stands, anyone employed 9-6 (i hope there are still a lot of us left!)
> cannot meet in a safe spot and exercise our dogs.
> *
> you tried to explain it to me, but I still do not understanding why we cant
> have both in one park?
>
> The reason I had hoped to find or create a fenced in dog run is that Free
> Run hours are not usable with a 9-6 work schedule. I wont be out after 9pm
> with my small dog and I cant make the 2 mile round trip to the park and have
> time for my pup to play before 9am weekdays (the other dogs are usually
> there between 7:30/8am to 9am).
>
> I do understand that in any location you will probably hear push back from
> the community who is already using that space. The question becomes whether
> that community is larger than the un-served dog run community in fort greene
> and clinton hill. My argument is that there are many many parks for the
> community to go to. If a dog run was to transform one corner of just one
> park, the rest of the community would still have options for park use. As
> it stands, anyone employed 9-6 (i hope there are still a lot of us left!)
> cannot meet in a safe spot and exercise our dogs.
> Ideas for locations:*
> *a)* Non Park spaces:I saw that there was a brainstorming meeting about what
> to do with the stone paved open space on Lafayette between St. James and
> Classon<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-&sll=40693239,-73967894&cid=5839509295...>.
> I know a dog run aspect was suggested there.
>
> Also, I attended the brainstorming meeting under the BQE where I heard &
> made the same suggestion. Do you think either of these could happen?
>
> Do you think it would it be possible to be granted temporary stewardship of
> an open space for a dog run? In that way we could just borrow the space and
> see if the community will use it. Based on the community use we could see
> if there was cause to secure a permanent space. Maybe if the community
> displays their desire to use either of those spaces in a temporary way, a
> dog run would be drawn into the plans for the permanent redesign of that
> space?
>
> *b)* Would you direct me to the groups I should talk to about the already
>
> Also, I attended the brainstorming meeting under the BQE where I heard &
> made the same suggestion. Do you think either of these could happen?
>
> Do you think it would it be possible to be granted temporary stewardship of
> an open space for a dog run? In that way we could just borrow the space and
> see if the community will use it. Based on the community use we could see
> if there was cause to secure a permanent space. Maybe if the community
> displays their desire to use either of those spaces in a temporary way, a
> dog run would be drawn into the plans for the permanent redesign of that
> space?
>
> fenced/gated grassy area in Underwood Park at Lafayette and
> Washington<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-&sll=40693239,-73967894&cid=5839509295...>?
> This is a very dog run friendly set up with benches all around for easy
> watching. We would not need any $ to change this into a dog run! (it does
> not even need a double gate since it is already inside the park's gate.)
> *c)* I do have a new location idea: Parham Playground on Clermont between
> watching. We would not need any $ to change this into a dog run! (it does
> not even need a double gate since it is already inside the park's gate.)
> Willoughby and Dekalb<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-&sll=40693239,-73967894&cid=5839509295...>.
> -----------------------------------------(email response from Tish):
> fromJames, Letitia <LJa...@council.nyc.gov> sender-timeSent at 12:15 AM
> (GMT-04:00). Current time there: 12:19 AM. ✆ tostephaniebergsma
> dateSun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM subjectRe: Dog Run Followup Questions
> mailed-bycouncil.nyc.gov
> hide details 12:15 AM (3 minutes ago)
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stephanie bergsma
Jul 22, 2009, 7:58:13 AM7/22/09
to clintonh...@googlegroups.com
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the feedback (if any more of you would like to chime in, please do!)
Thanks for the feedback (if any more of you would like to chime in, please do!)
I think many of you have been communicating about this project for a while so I just want to call out that I am brand new to this project. I am hoping to facilitate the creation of a fenced run somewhere central in Clinton hill/fort greene neighborhoods. I want to mention that this fenced run project will not alter the off leash hours at Fort Greene Park in any way. Also, before we reach out to any other organizations for help, I was hoping we can survey our options and decide which we would most like to pursue. As of now, I consider us to be brainstorming. I think many people have already asked about all of the parks in the area as potential site for a dog run. But I am going to ask AGAIN about any site we deem a good idea. There is no harm asking for an update. Maybe the community may have rejected the idea in the past but now that there are more dog owners around - they may love the idea. Who knows! I don't think there have been any community meetings about a dog run in our area in several years. I do believe the climate has changed in our favor (1 new vet - 3 new dog/pet stores/spas/boutiques). I think Tish is ready to close this nagging issue iif she can this.
To those of you who know PUPs organization, do you think they will help us? How could they help us? (pls do not reach out just yet - just asking for your opinion) Also, does anyone know the status of their project to create a "permanent 24 hour off leash lawn" in fort greene park (listed on their website)?
Location options (click on links for maps of parks):
My objection to Commodore Barry Park was only that it is not central to Fort Greene/Clinton Hill. To me, it is out of the way and though it may technically be fort greene, I consider it Wallabout/Vinegar hill (aka east Dumbo). I just did not want that park to be the 1st choice as I am very afraid that it will be under used. I was hoping for a location within a few blocks of fort greene park towards the center of the neighborhood / towards Clinton hill / towards residential areas instead of further towards commercial areas. I wanted to ensure the dog community already using fort greene park could easily use the fenced run outside off leash hours. However I just looked at the map and I see that Commodore Barry Park is only 2 blocks north and 1 block west of the north-western corner of fort greene park. So I guess it is not that much further away, it just feels like a completely different neighborhood.
Steuben Park has many of the same issues as Commodore Barry does. It is North of the BQE as well meaning 99% will be walking up from the south (ie it is not central or convenient to the majority). Also around the corner to the north and east there is a very dense population of Hasidic Jewish persons whom I see out walking all of the time but I have never ever ever ever seen to own a dog. So not many people around there would use this park meaning many of us would be walking from further away. This park is at the far right of the BQE passing around the navy yard and Commodore Barry Park is at the far left. Either of these locations are OK with me. They just aren't my 1st choice and I wanted to exhaust all of the "ideal" options before pursuing a "less than ideal" option.
I guess I understand the fort Greene free vs fenced issue better now. I wish it was not so, but I accept it. I have been looking back at this google groups history and I see some heated discussions about this topic. I hope that the PUPs organization can come to accept that with every new dog owner that uses free run may ask the same question "Why cant we have a fenced run here too?"
My objection to Commodore Barry Park was only that it is not central to Fort Greene/Clinton Hill. To me, it is out of the way and though it may technically be fort greene, I consider it Wallabout/Vinegar hill (aka east Dumbo). I just did not want that park to be the 1st choice as I am very afraid that it will be under used. I was hoping for a location within a few blocks of fort greene park towards the center of the neighborhood / towards Clinton hill / towards residential areas instead of further towards commercial areas. I wanted to ensure the dog community already using fort greene park could easily use the fenced run outside off leash hours. However I just looked at the map and I see that Commodore Barry Park is only 2 blocks north and 1 block west of the north-western corner of fort greene park. So I guess it is not that much further away, it just feels like a completely different neighborhood.
Steuben Park has many of the same issues as Commodore Barry does. It is North of the BQE as well meaning 99% will be walking up from the south (ie it is not central or convenient to the majority). Also around the corner to the north and east there is a very dense population of Hasidic Jewish persons whom I see out walking all of the time but I have never ever ever ever seen to own a dog. So not many people around there would use this park meaning many of us would be walking from further away. This park is at the far right of the BQE passing around the navy yard and Commodore Barry Park is at the far left. Either of these locations are OK with me. They just aren't my 1st choice and I wanted to exhaust all of the "ideal" options before pursuing a "less than ideal" option.
I guess I understand the fort Greene free vs fenced issue better now. I wish it was not so, but I accept it. I have been looking back at this google groups history and I see some heated discussions about this topic. I hope that the PUPs organization can come to accept that with every new dog owner that uses free run may ask the same question "Why cant we have a fenced run here too?"
Cuyler Gore park is a great suggestion. Its a very central park to the neighborhoods and it is already sectioned off. I will ask Tish about this option.
In a few days after we have gathered a few options we like I will make an online survey and we can vote on our favorites and ask Tish to hold a meeting with the appropriate parties to ask about these possibilities. Then when we have our main park choice we can reach out to everyone for help.
Sound good to you?
Any other location suggestions?
Thanks,
Stephanie
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun
Any other location suggestions?
Thanks,
Stephanie
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun
Eric Suquet
Jul 22, 2009, 9:19:25 AM7/22/09
to clintonh...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for taking the lead on this Stephanie.
I think under the BQE is a great option. The city is looking for
different ways to utilize this space now that construction is
finished. Besides being handy when it's raining or snowing, I think
the main advantage is that it's NEW space, and no one else in the
neighborhood will feel infringed upon. Everyone wins.
I know some people might be sketched out by the space under the BQE,
but that's exactly why it SHOULD be converted into a dog park or some
other public use space. Converting an underused and run down area into
a well lit and useful part of the community will do wonders for the
neighborhood.
Besides the BQE, I still think Steuben is the best option space wise.
It is way underutilized and the parks department has told me numerous
times that it's the only park they're in favor of converting. I think
it would be our best option to get a larger space. The small dog parks
I've seen get very dirty and dogs are more prone to fighting.
If anyone out there would like to do something more useful with the
website I set up please contact me, and I'd be happy to give you all
the info.
-----------------
Eric Suquet
www.ericsuquet.com
347-432-5939
-----------------
Werner
Aug 24, 2009, 1:47:02 AM8/24/09
to Clinton Hill Dog Run
Hi,
How would a dog run under the BQE work? How would you deal with
drainage and cleanup, etc., since the dog run would be on a tar
surface (or tar under wood chips). Is anyone concerned about the hard
surface wear on dog joints, etc. Also, and I'm just curious here, do
people have dogs that don't like snow?
I think drainage and runoff from dog urine and even stormwater running
into the area might make some problems underneat the BQE. It seems
like anything under the highway would require major work by parks dept
to make it safe (special drainage for example). Also there could be an
issue with rodents there.
Also, as I mentioned before, NYCDog is a great resource for a project
like this. They have helped several communities start dog runs and
know about logistics, best ways to approach, dealing with parks dept,
etc.
How would a dog run under the BQE work? How would you deal with
drainage and cleanup, etc., since the dog run would be on a tar
surface (or tar under wood chips). Is anyone concerned about the hard
surface wear on dog joints, etc. Also, and I'm just curious here, do
people have dogs that don't like snow?
I think drainage and runoff from dog urine and even stormwater running
into the area might make some problems underneat the BQE. It seems
like anything under the highway would require major work by parks dept
to make it safe (special drainage for example). Also there could be an
issue with rodents there.
Also, as I mentioned before, NYCDog is a great resource for a project
like this. They have helped several communities start dog runs and
know about logistics, best ways to approach, dealing with parks dept,
etc.
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