Re: clintonhilldogrun - 4 new messages in 1 topic - digest

[stephanie bergsma]

Hi,
Tish has explained that it is not about having more people PRO v CON at cuyler.  Its about the tally in the direct radius of the park.  So all the dog owners in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene could want it but if (for example) a senior citizens tower building next to the park doesn't want it, we loose even though we out number them.  we need to prove that every one else who live nearby except the tower building does want it.

Steuben Playground is on Steuben & park & flushing & williamsburg st/the bqe.  It is not the fenced pavement.

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Daisy Okas <beagm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am strongly in favor of Cuyler Gore as it is most central and logical in terms of layout and the mininal use of that park. If we get more people on this list and advocating for that location then we may have a stronger community than the opposition. Dog lovers are a vocal and passionate bunch so if we poll people and gather emails we can spread the word. Has anyone approached Brownstoner or the Local about getting the word out? I'm happy to do that.

Under the BQE is depressing. I like dog runs for the purpose of being outside and enjoying nature as well as letting my dog exercise.

 I'm not sure where Steuben park is. I looked on a map and walked over there but didn't anything resembling a park. Is it that giant stretch of fenced in pavement right below the navy yard?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:10 AM, clintonhilldogrun group <nor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


Clinton Hill Dog Run
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en

clintonh...@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Oct 2009 update - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun/t/a279b68b086f0a85?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oct 2009 update
http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun/t/a279b68b086f0a85?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Oct 5 2009 11:57 am
From: SB11205


This is where we have landed:

Park location options are-
1) underneath the bqe (somewhere in the middle)
2) Steuben Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B221/)
3) Cuyler Gore Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B026/)

This is the status of each
1) BQE: Tish walked it with DOT and they are fine with a dog run being
there.  Parks Dept is fine with a dog run being there.  We are
awaiting the budget meeting for 2010 funds where Tish will get the
project the funds it needs.  Then Parks Dept will make the dog run.
Estimated finished date by me personally? 2011 best case scenario.

2) Steuben Park: Funds available, Parks Dept can proceed to
construction immediately within their own calendar.  This location
lacks enthusiastic support from the community since it is not central
to our neighborhood.  Also a dog owner and member of this google group
(who I will not name) has protested directly to Tish & PUPS & other
blog websites (but not this website) in order to prevent using part of
this park as a dog run.  This site is still an option if the community
is enthusiastic about it.

3) Cuyler Gore Park:  Tish is convinced the direct neighbors of this
park are very against the idea of a dog run there.  Obstacle here is
proving somehow that there are actual dog owners in the immediate area
who want it and that everyone else in the immediate area is not
vehemently against it.  I think this would involve polling people in
the park and 2 block radius ad asking for their name & email & street
address to prove they live super microscopically close by the park
(unlike myself who lives pretty far from that park even though its the
same neighborhood).  Arguments against dog run at this site = smell,
sound, dogs are unsafe/dangerous.  Arguments for dog run at this site
= Park "grassy" areas are already segmented by sidewalks and fenced
off from people using.  People only use the paved areas of this park &
the playground & the garden.  They do not sit on the dirt and picnic
here.  Grassy areas are not grassy because the trees are too thick/
shady IE dog run will not detract from the beauty of park by killing
the grass because there is no grass.  I am almost positive there is a
hose spicket in one of the grass areas, add a bowl and you have a dog
fountain!  It would be easy to fence off and create a "small dog's"
run and a "big dog's" run.

What do you think about our options for a community dog run?




== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 6 2009 8:11 am
From: Mak Keltner


I vote for option #2 (Steuben), followed by option #1 (BQE).

The only reason I am not excited about #3 is if too many neighbors
protest, then it wouldn't make sense.  However, I do like the idea of
a small dog run.  (I see serious fights some mornings at Fort Greene
Park that scare me a little!)

As long as the fence is high enough that my dog can't jump it, I am
excited about these locations.  Steuben seems a bit prettier I
suppose.  I'm curious about the individual who opposes this location.
What are the arguments against? (My apologies if we've been over that
already.)  Also, how can one person's objections have such a strong
influence here--Steuben appears to be a very viable option especially
if construction can begin relatively soon.  Again, I am open to
hearing the reasons against (other than geographic).

Thanks to those who have been working on this.



On Oct 5, 2:57 pm, SB11205 <stephanieberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is where we have landed:

Park location options are-
1) underneath the bqe (somewhere in the middle)
2) Steuben Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B221/)
3) Cuyler Gore Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B026/)

This is the status of each
1) BQE: Tish walked it with DOT and they are fine with a dog run being
there.  Parks Dept is fine with a dog run being there.  We are
awaiting the budget meeting for 2010 funds where Tish will get the
project the funds it needs.  Then Parks Dept will make the dog run.
Estimated finished date by me personally? 2011 best case scenario.

2) Steuben Park: Funds available, Parks Dept can proceed to
construction immediately within their own calendar.  This location
lacks enthusiastic support from the community since it is not central
to our neighborhood.  Also a dog owner and member of this google group
(who I will not name) has protested directly to Tish & PUPS & other
blog websites (but not this website) in order to prevent using part of
this park as a dog run.  This site is still an option if the community
is enthusiastic about it.

3) Cuyler Gore Park:  Tish is convinced the direct neighbors of this
park are very against the idea of a dog run there.  Obstacle here is
proving somehow that there are actual dog owners in the immediate area
who want it and that everyone else in the immediate area is not
vehemently against it.  I think this would involve polling people in
the park and 2 block radius ad asking for their name & email & street
address to prove they live super microscopically close by the park
(unlike myself who lives pretty far from that park even though its the
same neighborhood).  Arguments against dog run at this site = smell,
sound, dogs are unsafe/dangerous.  Arguments for dog run at this site
= Park "grassy" areas are already segmented by sidewalks and fenced
off from people using.  People only use the paved areas of this park &
the playground & the garden.  They do not sit on the dirt and picnic
here.  Grassy areas are not grassy because the trees are too thick/
shady IE dog run will not detract from the beauty of park by killing
the grass because there is no grass.  I am almost positive there is a
hose spicket in one of the grass areas, add a bowl and you have a dog
fountain!  It would be easy to fence off and create a "small dog's"
run and a "big dog's" run.

What do you think about our options for a community dog run?



== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 6 2009 5:39 pm
From: stephanie bergsma


The reason against using Steuben, as per the individual who complained, is
that the People community uses the park and it is precious to them because
they have no other alternative locations to use if they are displaced.
That's obviously untrue.  There are loads and loads of other parks and
playgrounds to go to within just 1/2 a mile, but it is an "opinion" so you
can't really argue.

This one opinion does not make this location not an option.  Steuben is
still an option.  But there has not been a lot of enthusiasm for it from
this google group, probably because its not central.  If everyone is excited
and think Steuben is the best option, please chime in.

There *has*  been a lot of excitement about a run under the BQE.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Mak Keltner <kelt...@yahoo.com> wrote:


I vote for option #2 (Steuben), followed by option #1 (BQE).

The only reason I am not excited about #3 is if too many neighbors
protest, then it wouldn't make sense.  However, I do like the idea of
a small dog run.  (I see serious fights some mornings at Fort Greene
Park that scare me a little!)

As long as the fence is high enough that my dog can't jump it, I am
excited about these locations.  Steuben seems a bit prettier I
suppose.  I'm curious about the individual who opposes this location.
What are the arguments against? (My apologies if we've been over that
already.)  Also, how can one person's objections have such a strong
influence here--Steuben appears to be a very viable option especially
if construction can begin relatively soon.  Again, I am open to
hearing the reasons against (other than geographic).

Thanks to those who have been working on this.



On Oct 5, 2:57 pm, SB11205 <stephanieberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is where we have landed:

Park location options are-
1) underneath the bqe (somewhere in the middle)
2) Steuben Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B221/)
3) Cuyler Gore Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B026/)

This is the status of each
1) BQE: Tish walked it with DOT and they are fine with a dog run being
there.  Parks Dept is fine with a dog run being there.  We are
awaiting the budget meeting for 2010 funds where Tish will get the
project the funds it needs.  Then Parks Dept will make the dog run.
Estimated finished date by me personally? 2011 best case scenario.

2) Steuben Park: Funds available, Parks Dept can proceed to
construction immediately within their own calendar.  This location
lacks enthusiastic support from the community since it is not central
to our neighborhood.  Also a dog owner and member of this google group
(who I will not name) has protested directly to Tish & PUPS & other
blog websites (but not this website) in order to prevent using part of
this park as a dog run.  This site is still an option if the community
is enthusiastic about it.

3) Cuyler Gore Park:  Tish is convinced the direct neighbors of this
park are very against the idea of a dog run there.  Obstacle here is
proving somehow that there are actual dog owners in the immediate area
who want it and that everyone else in the immediate area is not
vehemently against it.  I think this would involve polling people in
the park and 2 block radius ad asking for their name & email & street
address to prove they live super microscopically close by the park
(unlike myself who lives pretty far from that park even though its the
same neighborhood).  Arguments against dog run at this site = smell,
sound, dogs are unsafe/dangerous.  Arguments for dog run at this site
= Park "grassy" areas are already segmented by sidewalks and fenced
off from people using.  People only use the paved areas of this park &
the playground & the garden.  They do not sit on the dirt and picnic
here.  Grassy areas are not grassy because the trees are too thick/
shady IE dog run will not detract from the beauty of park by killing
the grass because there is no grass.  I am almost positive there is a
hose spicket in one of the grass areas, add a bowl and you have a dog
fountain!  It would be easy to fence off and create a "small dog's"
run and a "big dog's" run.

What do you think about our options for a community dog run?






== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 6 2009 6:00 pm
From: Eric Suquet


I think Steuben makes the most sense by far. At the moment I live a
couple blocks away from Steuben, but next month I'm moving about as
far away from it as possible while still being considered to live in
Ft. Greene. That said, it STILL strikes me as a no brainer to go for a
large dog park there given the circumstances.

Speaking from experience with the park, it is HIGHLY underutilized.
The vast majority of people who use the part of the park in question,
are dog owners who use it as a de-facto dog park already (illegally).
I stopped taking my dog there 6 months ago, because I was tired of him
getting into chicken bones and other trash left strewn about the park.
If we had a fenced in dog run, this wouldn't be an issue. The only
detractor  who has been vocal on this board is against having a dog
park there, because he brings his dog there, and he doesn't trust the
parks department to do the job properly. Please feel free to correct
me if I am wrong un-named detractor.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't pursue Steuben given Stephanie's
explanation. It sounds like everyone is on board except for one
(possibly two) people.

If anyone is concerned with the "community's" reaction, I suggest
spending a week hitting the park and asking whoever is there what they
think. I can almost guarantee you that most of them will be dog
owners, and most if not all of them will enthusiastically support a
dog run. I would offer to do just this, but at the moment I'm swamped
and preparing for a move.



On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 8:39 PM, stephanie bergsma
<stephani...@gmail.com> wrote:
The reason against using Steuben, as per the individual who complained, is
that the People community uses the park and it is precious to them because
they have no other alternative locations to use if they are displaced.
That's obviously untrue.  There are loads and loads of other parks and
playgrounds to go to within just 1/2 a mile, but it is an "opinion" so you
can't really argue.

This one opinion does not make this location not an option.  Steuben is
still an option.  But there has not been a lot of enthusiasm for it from
this google group, probably because its not central.  If everyone is excited
and think Steuben is the best option, please chime in.

There has  been a lot of excitement about a run under the BQE.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Mak Keltner <kelt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I vote for option #2 (Steuben), followed by option #1 (BQE).

The only reason I am not excited about #3 is if too many neighbors
protest, then it wouldn't make sense.  However, I do like the idea of
a small dog run.  (I see serious fights some mornings at Fort Greene
Park that scare me a little!)

As long as the fence is high enough that my dog can't jump it, I am
excited about these locations.  Steuben seems a bit prettier I
suppose.  I'm curious about the individual who opposes this location.
What are the arguments against? (My apologies if we've been over that
already.)  Also, how can one person's objections have such a strong
influence here--Steuben appears to be a very viable option especially
if construction can begin relatively soon.  Again, I am open to
hearing the reasons against (other than geographic).

Thanks to those who have been working on this.



On Oct 5, 2:57 pm, SB11205 <stephanieberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is where we have landed:

Park location options are-
1) underneath the bqe (somewhere in the middle)
2) Steuben Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B221/)
3) Cuyler Gore Park (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B026/)

This is the status of each
1) BQE: Tish walked it with DOT and they are fine with a dog run being
there.  Parks Dept is fine with a dog run being there.  We are
awaiting the budget meeting for 2010 funds where Tish will get the
project the funds it needs.  Then Parks Dept will make the dog run.
Estimated finished date by me personally? 2011 best case scenario.

2) Steuben Park: Funds available, Parks Dept can proceed to
construction immediately within their own calendar.  This location
lacks enthusiastic support from the community since it is not central
to our neighborhood.  Also a dog owner and member of this google group
(who I will not name) has protested directly to Tish & PUPS & other
blog websites (but not this website) in order to prevent using part of
this park as a dog run.  This site is still an option if the community
is enthusiastic about it.

3) Cuyler Gore Park:  Tish is convinced the direct neighbors of this
park are very against the idea of a dog run there.  Obstacle here is
proving somehow that there are actual dog owners in the immediate area
who want it and that everyone else in the immediate area is not
vehemently against it.  I think this would involve polling people in
the park and 2 block radius ad asking for their name & email & street
address to prove they live super microscopically close by the park
(unlike myself who lives pretty far from that park even though its the
same neighborhood).  Arguments against dog run at this site = smell,
sound, dogs are unsafe/dangerous.  Arguments for dog run at this site
= Park "grassy" areas are already segmented by sidewalks and fenced
off from people using.  People only use the paved areas of this park &
the playground & the garden.  They do not sit on the dirt and picnic
here.  Grassy areas are not grassy because the trees are too thick/
shady IE dog run will not detract from the beauty of park by killing
the grass because there is no grass.  I am almost positive there is a
hose spicket in one of the grass areas, add a bowl and you have a dog
fountain!  It would be easy to fence off and create a "small dog's"
run and a "big dog's" run.

What do you think about our options for a community dog run?








--
-----------------
Eric Suquet
www.ericsuquet.com
347-432-5939
-----------------




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[Christina]

Hi all!

I am moving to Ft Greene next month with my dog Hunter and I'd LOVE to
see a dog run in the neighborhood as he is a sighthound and thus it is
especially dangerous for him to be off leash in an unfenced park. I'm
so glad that there is this group and people working so hard on this
issue.

Anyway here's my opinion, if it is at all helpful:

Of the three potential park sites, Cuyler seems closest to me (I'll be
on Carlton Ave between Myrtle and Willoughby) and thus the most
convenient, however, it doesn't seem like that is the most practical
option due to lack of support in the immediate neighborhood.

Steuben is way too far for me, personally. I'd be more likely to hop
in the car and take Hunter to Hillside than to go here.

Depending on where the BQE park would be it seems like the best option
from my perspective. No neighbors to be upset about taking away park
land and it seems like the authorities are on our side. There would
also be some shelter from the snow in the winter. While I agree that
it would be nicer to be out in the open air, it seems like it's
somewhat of an uphill battle to get a more "prime" location -- I'd
rather have some kind of dog park and walk on-leash in FGP to enjoy
nature than have no dog park at all.

Anyway so my support would be for BQE, then Cuyler, with no support
for Steuben.

Thanks again to everyone who has been working so diligently and
thoughtfully on this issue!

Best,
Christina

On Oct 7, 10:10 pm, stephanie bergsma <stephanieberg...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
> Tish has explained that it is not about having more people PRO v CON at
> cuyler.  Its about the tally in the direct radius of the park.  So all the
> dog owners in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene could want it but if (for
> example) a senior citizens tower building next to the park doesn't want it,
> we loose even though we out number them.  we need to prove that every one

> else who live nearby except the tower building *does* want it.

>
> Steuben Playground is on Steuben & park & flushing & williamsburg st/the
> bqe.  It is not the fenced pavement.
>

> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Daisy Okas <beagmam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I am strongly in favor of Cuyler Gore as it is most central and logical in
> > terms of layout and the mininal use of that park. If we get more people on
> > this list and advocating for that location then we may have a stronger
> > community than the opposition. Dog lovers are a vocal and passionate bunch
> > so if we poll people and gather emails we can spread the word. Has anyone
> > approached Brownstoner or the Local about getting the word out? I'm happy to
> > do that.
>
> > Under the BQE is depressing. I like dog runs for the purpose of being
> > outside and enjoying nature as well as letting my dog exercise.
>
> >  I'm not sure where Steuben park is. I looked on a map and walked over
> > there but didn't anything resembling a park. Is it that giant stretch of
> > fenced in pavement right below the navy yard?
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:10 AM, clintonhilldogrun group <
> > nor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> > Clinton Hill Dog Run
> >http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en
>
> > clintonh...@googlegroups.com
>
> > Today's topics:
>
> > * Oct 2009 update - 4 messages, 3 authors

> >http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun/t/a279b68b086f0a85?h...

>
> > ==============================================================================
> > TOPIC: Oct 2009 update

> >http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun/t/a279b68b086f0a85?h...

> > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Mak Keltner <keltne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I vote for option #2 (Steuben), followed by option #1 (BQE).
>
> > The only reason I am not excited about #3 is if too many neighbors
> > protest, then it wouldn't make sense.  However, I do like the idea of
> > a small dog run.  (I see serious fights some mornings at Fort Greene
> > Park that scare me a little!)
>
> > As long as the fence is high enough that my dog can't jump it, I am
> > excited about these locations.  Steuben seems a bit prettier I
> > suppose.  I'm curious about the individual who opposes this location.
> > What are the arguments against? (My apologies if we've been over that
> > already.)  Also, how can one person's objections
>

> ...
>
> read more »