Re: dog run--Steuben park
Matt Townsend
Hello all,
I trust that everyone had safe and happy Thanksgiving.
The purpose of my e-mail is to explain my reasons for opposing the conversion of Steuben Park to a fenced in dog run and to present a fourth option for discussion.
I’m definitely sympathetic to the desire to convert Steuben Park from a small grassy park into a dog run but I don’t believe it’s what’s best for the entire community.
My reasons for opposition are five-fold:
1. Steuben Park is the only grassy park in the Wallabout area. When you expand the map on the link that was provided in a previous e-mail (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B221/) you see that with the exception of Ft. Greene Park & Commodore Barry Park there are no other grassy areas in the neighborhood that are suitable for picnics, etc. In spite of what some maps call them there is no grass in Classon Playground, Taaffe Playground or Washington Hall Park. If there were other grassy options in the "loads and loads of other parks and playgrounds within just a 1/2 mile" then we wouldn't be having this discussion but there aren't. That's not an opinion that's a fact.
2. There have been no public hearings held on the conversion of Steuben Park to a dog run. People refer to Steuben Park as an underutilized park but there are groups that utilize Steuben Park for their family and/or church group picnics. I doubt I’m the only one that has seen the “moon bounce castle” or the piñatas hanging from the trees. Based on my unscientific observations the majority of the groups that utilize Steuben Park for their family picnics are non-English speaking, immigrant families. What effort, if any, has been made to reach out to these groups? If Stueben Park is turned into a dog run where will the families in the community that utilize Steuben Park for their family BBQs, birthday parties and holiday celebrations go?
3. Converting space under the BQE into a dog run means that we are creating new, useable space in the neighborhood and not destroying useable green space. For an example of dog run that has an overhead structure and is close to a major roadway please see Peter Detmold Park. (http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/M108N/) No, it’s not Manhattan’s answer to Dog Beach in San Diego but it’s heavily utilized by dog owners in the Turtle Bay area. It would also be in a more centralized location than Steuben Park. In Stephanie's e-mail of October 6th it was mentioned that there has been a lot of excitement about a run under the BQE.
4. In previous e-mails people have mentioned the fact that they have seen altercations between dogs in Ft. Greene Park as a reason for wanting another off-leash option in the neighborhood. Do people honestly believe that those sorts of issues would miraculously disappear if Steuben Park is converted to a dog run? It’s not the environment that causes the behavior but the poor leadership skills of the dog’s owner that lead to the altercations.
5. Other posts have referred to the problem of chicken bones, broken eggs and trash in Steuben Park. In my opinion these issues are not going to go away simply because it gets converted to a dog run. I fail to understand how this won’t still be an issue.
Lastly, whether people like to admit it or not I think there is another option besides underneath the BQE, Steuben Park or Cuyler Gore Park. The fourth option is to get off-leash hours bestowed on Steuben Park. This option is cheaper, it creates another off-leash option and it preserves the grassy space. I think it's a win-win situation.
All the best,
Matt
Monica McLaughlin
The overhead structure in Peter Detmold Park is a narrow footbridge that goes accross the park and then accross the FDR which is right next to the park. It is NOT a 6-lane highway. (See photo below. The green structure to the middle left of the photo is the footbridge.) The creation of Peter Detmold Park dog run did not create new, useable space in a neighborhood. The dog run took a sizeable portion of the existing Peter Detmold Park which for decades prior to its creation had been entirely used as a dog run 24/7.
Location, Location, Location
Whatever area is chosen as a dog run, it is important that that area be a place that is pleasant to be in. If it is nice to hang out underneath the BQE, then dog run owners and their dogs will be happy there. If it isn't nice, no one will go there once it becomes a dog run and dog owners will be at square one. Think of it as buying yourself a treadmill. Put it in the living room, and you will use it. Stick it in the basement or in a garage and it will sit unused. Those in favor of this (or any other) location, should actually go hang out there with their dogs before giving it a thumbs up.
Dog Run Size & Surface
A dog run need not take up the entire grassy area of any park so it need not be a "them or us" situation. In fact, the powers that be (Parks and the Community Board) will most likely not allow anything much larger than 1/5th of an acre. Steuben Park is 1.17 acres, so although you may be now using a large portion of the grassy area for dogs, it is highly unlikely that anything sizable will ever be fenced. (This may be a good argument for having off-leash hours instead of a run). At any rate, the grass will turn into hard packed dirt in a very short time once it is fenced in and more dogs and people begin to use the smaller area. If the ground is sloped, then flooding will not be a problem (see photo below of Murray Playground in Long Island City), but if it is bowl-shaped, once the dirt becomes hard packed, it will no longer drain and flooding could be a serious problem. For this reason, you may want to consider taking over a paved portion of Steuben Park. Peter Detmold dog run did just this. The surface is a combination of hex tiles and dirt around the trees (See photo above.)
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Mayumi Shimose Poe
offleash hours was scheduling conflicts for many in the neighborhood
who would use Fort Greene for that purpose--except that the before 9am
and after 9pm rule is a scheduling conflict for them.
I myself am moving out of the neighborhood soon, so I have less of a
vested interest anymore, BUT there is a difference between a dog
park/run and offleash hours. When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, I
really liked having a fenced-off space designated FOR dogs. In that
space, the dogs can do their thing and any humans (including children)
in the park have to understand that if they are choosing to come into
the dogspace, there may be barking, there may be muddy pawprints on
jeans, there may be wild chases, and there will even be sometimes a
dog fight or two.
A side note on dog fights ... I agree that " It’s not the environment
that causes the behavior" and that sometimes it is "the poor
offleash hours by a pitbull puppy. Although my dog wasn't in the wrong
and was the only one who got injured (requiring surgery that cost me
$300 btw), and even though the whole incident was incredibly stressful
and worrisome for me, even I can see that sometimes it isn't the case
of negligent owners or bad leadership ... sometimes it is just two
dogs playing, working it out, and one or the other not knowing its
strength.
M.
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Monica McLaughlin <monj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter Detmold Park
>
> The overhead structure in Peter Detmold Park is a narrow footbridge that goes accross the park and then accross the FDR which is right next to the park. It is NOT a 6-lane highway. (See photo below. The green structure to the middle left of the photo is the footbridge.) The creation of Peter Detmold Park dog run did not create new, useable space in a neighborhood. The dog run took a sizeable portion of the existing Peter Detmold Park which for decades prior to its creation had been entirely used as a dog run 24/7.
>
>
>
>
> Whatever area is chosen as a dog run, it is important that that area be a place that is pleasant to be in. If it is nice to hang out underneath the BQE, then dog run owners and their dogs will be happy there. If it isn't nice, no one will go there once it becomes a dog run and dog owners will be at square one. Think of it as buying yourself a treadmill. Put it in the living room, and you will use it. Stick it in the basement or in a garage and it will sit unused. Those in favor of this (or any other) location, should actually go hang out there with their dogs before giving it a thumbs up.
>
>
>
> Dog Run Size & Surface
>
> A dog run need not take up the entire grassy area of any park so it need not be a "them or us" situation. In fact, the powers that be (Parks and the Community Board) will most likely not allow anything much larger than 1/5th of an acre. Steuben Park is 1.17 acres, so although you may be now using a large portion of the grassy area for dogs, it is highly unlikely that anything sizable will ever be fenced. (This may be a good argument for having off-leash hours instead of a run). At any rate, the grass will turn into hard packed dirt in a very short time once it is fenced in and more dogs and people begin to use the smaller area. If the ground is sloped, then flooding will not be a problem (see photo below of Murray Playground in Long Island City), but if it is bowl-shaped, once the dirt becomes hard packed, it will no longer drain and flooding could be a serious problem. For this reason, you may want to consider taking over a paved portion of Steuben Park. Peter Detmold dog run did just this. The surface is a combination of hex tiles and dirt around the trees (See photo above.)
>
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>
>
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--
May in the Bay is live from Brooklyn. http://www.mayumishimosepoe.com
To keep myself humble, I remember that the great William Faulkner once
remarked to an editor: "I know you mean well, but so do I."
“How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to
live.” –David Henry Thoreau
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at
the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.'" -- Mary Anne
Radmacher
christina hayes
Werner
brainer and of course it is completely underutilized, especially the
grassy areas which are almost never used. People can debate this issue
but anyone who takes time to observe the park use cannot refute that
it's underused. Furthermore, I find the idea of a dog run under the
BQE to be quite untenable for many reasons including the first big
one: parks has no jurisdiction over any areas under the highway.
Furthermore, it's loud and obnoxious under the BQE and you would need
lighting under the highway at all times of the day and night. I could
go on and on.
If you do follow through with a Stueben dog run you should talk to
NYCdog for help if you haven't already, because helping groups like
this one is exactly what they do. Here's a link:
http://www.nycdog.org/
> > .
> >http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > May in the Bay is live from Brooklyn. http://www.mayumishimosepoe.com
>
> > To keep myself humble, I remember that the great William Faulkner once
> > remarked to an editor: "I know you mean well, but so do I."
>
> > “How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to
> > live.” –David Henry Thoreau
>
> > "Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at
> > the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.'" -- Mary Anne
> > Radmacher
>
> > --
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Clinton Hill Dog Run" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to clintonh...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
>
> - Show quoted text -
clintonhillguy
neighborhood. Don't ruin a good thing. Leave it alone.
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
SB11205
or does ruin = don't make it an official dog run?
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/clintonhilldogrun?hl=en.-Hidequoted text -