Clementine's help system

[Keiran Halcyon]

As everybody knows, Clementine lacks any help system aside of a few
online wiki articles available here: http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/w/list.
We might say that 'the application is simple enough' but deep inside
we all know that it desperately needs some kind of user manual. Such
thing makes application more 'available', more 'professional' and it
'helps' with everyday tasks. Also, it let's people discover some not-
so-obvious features.

I see that many people here are involved in 'triaging' bugs and / or
just simple everyday discussion. So, let me ask you this - is there
anybody here who'd like to participate more, in this kind of project?
We'd need people to supervise the whole process and more people who'd
like to write a chapter or two.

As for the form the project and it's results should take, I have
nothing special in mind at this point. I'm not sure how the whole help
system should work - a wiki, help available in Clementine's menu, a
'quickstart' PDF or even all three of those.

If you're interested in participating or just wan't to state your
opinion about the project, please leave a comment below.

[VastOne]

I think that any great software needs a great "How To" that should encompass every facet of the application.

I believe it should be done with the help of the community as you are suggesting.  The more involvement, the better the output and the creativity.

I suggest a wiki with a step by step process that details every part of Clementine with screenshots and an explanation.  This can then be ported to any site or a PDF

By having the community involved with the wiki, it fosters even more respect and bonds that are important in the success of Clementine.

I would be happy to do this...

--
Thank you,

VastOne

vas...@gmail.com

[Garthhh]

Yes this is exactly what I was getting at
a wiki seems a natural choice
more community involvement, more time for you & the other developers
to do what you do best, developing, refining
less time spent answering questions about basic functions

I like & use google stuff, but not everyone does, which excludes
potential community members

VastOne built a very comprehensive wiki for a different player App
here
http://www.wikidot.com/
I'm sure he'll let you have a look
the other player had a single developer, which can lead to a less
inclusive dynamics with the community
Clem has a team of developers which is more in line with Open Source
sensibilities
& much more likely to have a large involved community

[VastOne]

Thank you Garthhh

This is one of the sites I designed and built

http://conky-pitstop.wikidot.com/start

I have additional references if needed...

[Keiran Halcyon]

Looks great! One thing I'm missing there is a thorough user manual
though. The site is more like a collection of guide's, FAQs and
tutorials which is great but I'd love it even more if there was a
manual of some kind included.

Also, I like the 'Scripts' section. Clementine will get a scripting
support really soon (we could probably risk saying it has it already)
and I'm thinking a mandatory paragraph or two about every script which
would like to get included won't harm anybody.

P.

> vast...@gmail.com

[VastOne]

That was just an example of a Wikidot site...

The Clementine would be totally different, it would be from a total users experience from A-Z with screenshots, How To's and even videos if necessary

The critical thing is that it is very easy to edit and since I have been doing it so long I can teach everyone who wants to how to edit. 

I have already matched the theme from the Main web page and begun a process that will be ongoing, always... 

It will be a community owned site, but with the final say on content and design from the devs and anyone the devs delegate..


I have had this closed so no one could see it, I have opened it long enough for you to peruse it

http://clementine.wikidot.com/

I have done only a sample of the Clementine Install and the Clementine Docs, they are by no means complete.

Again, it can go in any direction....

[VastOne]

One more thing on the Manual...

I think when the Wiki is done, it can then be condensed down to a PDF that can be distributed with the application

[Keiran Halcyon]

Sounds promising. :) I'd like to here from more people who visit this
group and who'd like to contribute to this new project. Glory and no
money awaits you!

Also, does anybody can think of a good way to promote this initiative?
One thing that comes to my mind is a short article on omgubuntu where
I actually read about Clementine for the first time. Of course this
will have to wait until the idea is polished a bit but it would be
nice to know our options in advance.

P.

On Jan 16, 8:17 pm, VastOne <vast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One more thing on the Manual...
>
> I think when the Wiki is done, it can then be condensed down to a PDF that
> can be distributed with the application
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 12:58 PM, VastOne <vast...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That was just an example of a Wikidot site...
>
> > The Clementine would be totally different, it would be from a total users
> > experience from A-Z with screenshots, How To's and even videos if necessary
>
> > The critical thing is that it is very easy to edit and since I have been
> > doing it so long I can teach everyone who wants to how to edit.
>
> > I have already matched the theme from the Main web page and begun a process
> > that will be ongoing, always...
>
> > It will be a community owned site, but with the final say on content and
> > design from the devs and anyone the devs delegate..
>
> > I have had this closed so no one could see it, I have opened it long enough
> > for you to peruse it
>
> >http://clementine.wikidot.com/
>
> > I have done only a sample of the Clementine Install and the Clementine
> > Docs, they are by no means complete.
>
> > Again, it can go in any direction....
>

> vast...@gmail.com

[David Dušanić]

What can I say, I would like to see a complete manual of Clementine also, a documentation about all the features and functions.
And of course I would like to help.

2011/1/16 Keiran Halcyon <keir...@gmail.com>

[Garthhh]

there is no reason to wait or lock into any solution, find out if any
one is willing to help

[Keiran Halcyon]

We're not holding you back - start working already! ;) The wikidot
site has our official approval and blessing. Also, since you've been
trying to start this for some time now VastOne, please supervise on
the whole thing for us.

I think that all of you should decide how to structure the documents
(I mean their heirarchy) and what aspects of Clementine to start with
so please do and begin writing.

On our side - I'm pretty sure you'll have Clementine questions sooner
or later. I'll talk with David about using Launchpad's 'Answers'
section for this purpose since it's currently inactive and would be
powerful enough for this purpose. Is there anything else we can do for
you?

P.

PS. You could start with porting the code.google.com Wiki articles to
the wikidot site. Of course, don't treat them as complete and full
featured but rather as stubs to be enhanced.

[Keiran Halcyon]

Has there been any movement in this subject?

P.

[Garthhh]

Sure moved right off the table & on to another app :D
no real interest from the development team
destined to stay on the back burner
Fair enough

[Keiran Halcyon]

What do you expect from us?

P.

[gavin19]

Has this been abandoned then? The wikidot page is inactive.

[David Dušanić]

The first idea, yes, for what I know, I wanted to make something and I began already to create some stuff on Wikidot.

But the discussion here was dead and I wasnt sure anymore.

I need people!, and more ideas, volunteers to help me to create the site. I opened one in private mode to test things.

If you have the will to help it would be appreciated, I talked to Keiran and I know what is necessary to make a community driven documentation for the Clementine users.

It doesnt have to be Wikidot also. 

2011/2/15 gavin19 <gavi...@gmail.com>

[gavin19]

Well you could use MediaWiki or something else but then you would need
to be able to set it up yourself and know a bit of PHP/myAdmin.

If you just use the clementine.wikidot.org and start off with a main
page and people can add articles from there. Something like the
Songbird wiki(http://wiki.songbirdnest.com/
Getting_Started_with_Songbird) or the old Amarok wiki page (http://
amarok.kde.org/wiki/Main_Page).

I'm sure there are a lot of people and ideas floating around. Maybe
try and round up volunteers on the IRC channel?

[David Dušanić]

I see, I have to be more in the IRC channel. :)

2011/2/16 gavin19 <gavi...@gmail.com>

[Youbzh]

Hi there,

I just discovered Clementine yesterday, and I must say, being an old
Amarok 1.4 user who switched to OSX, I was EXACTLY looking for this
beautiful software.

Being so happy to have found was I was so desperately missing, I feel
like sharing the love :)

I got a bit of time for now, and I know I can find some to help with
this great task.

I used to know a bit about programming, but no so much anymore. So I
was more thinking on helping tracking bugs, and translating.

Since I am a tech support guy, I kinda know a thing or 2 about
teaching people how to use stuff. Including writing some user manuals.

So, I'd be really happy to write some wiki pages about what I know (as
I said I used to use AmaroK 1.4 which is pretty close to Clementine).

I can write in English and French without any problem, maybe a little
Spanish and Italian if needed...

So if this project is still going, let me know, I'm happy to help.

Mat

On 16 fév, 14:38, David Dušanić <ivanovne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I see, I have to be more in the IRC channel. :)
>

> 2011/2/16 gavin19 <gavin...@gmail.com>

[Keiran Halcyon]

The idea seems to be slowly dying... Maybe you'd like to lead the
innitiative? The most important thing we need now is wiki - this would
allow everybody to contribute. Also, some articles are already on our
code.google, ready to be moved.

If you feel you're up to it, please contact me on your e-mail. If you
don't feel like leading, give us some time. When 0.7 is out, I'll try
to devote some time and start the wiki myself.

P.

[Youbzh]

I think I could give it a try... I was just wondering if the page
http://clementine.wikidot.com/ should be used for that purpose. Should
I register and try to write some pages, see how it goes ?

[David Dušanić]

Hey, I see the discussion is again on top.

This site you are suggesting is not existing anymore, you should open/make a new site when you register there.

Im already registered on Wikidot, so we could begin to try.

2011/3/7 Youbzh <mat.h...@gmail.com>

[Youbzh]

Hi,

I registered as well on Wikidot. However I can't seem to be able to
join Clementine's wiki. When I hit the join button nothing happens
basically, and in my account overview no new membership application is
created. Maybe I am doing something wrong... I'm logged in to the IRC
at the moment and will try to be there most of the day, in case
someone wants to discuss that.

Cheers

On 7 mar, 12:10, David Dušanić <ivanovne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hey, I see the discussion is again on top.
> This site you are suggesting is not existing anymore, you should open/make a
> new site when you register there.
> Im already registered on Wikidot, so we could begin to try.
>

> 2011/3/7 Youbzh <mat.hub...@gmail.com>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think I could give it a try... I was just wondering if the page

> >http://clementine.wikidot.com/should be used for that purpose. Should

[David Dušanić]

 You wanted to join a non existing site, that was the problem.

2011/3/7 Youbzh <mat.h...@gmail.com>

[Youbzh]

Oh sorry, it seems I haven't read your message properly...

So I got your invitation and I am all ready to get started... appart
from what I can see on the home page did you write anything yet ?

I guess I would get started copycat-ing some other software wiki... I
might not have time writing stuff today but it would be interesting to
discuss how we should proceed ? If you have any thoughts let me know.
If not, I think I will start something anyway, tomorrow.

Thanks

On 7 mar, 14:58, David Dušanić <ivanovne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>  You wanted to join a non existing site, that was the problem.
>

> 2011/3/7 Youbzh <mat.hub...@gmail.com>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I registered as well on Wikidot. However I can't seem to be able to
> > join Clementine's wiki. When I hit the join button nothing happens
> > basically, and in my account overview no new membership application is
> > created. Maybe I am doing something wrong... I'm logged in to the IRC
> > at the moment and will try to be there most of the day, in case
> > someone wants to discuss that.
>
> > Cheers
>
> > On 7 mar, 12:10, David Dušanić <ivanovne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Hey, I see the discussion is again on top.
> > > This site you are suggesting is not existing anymore, you should
> > open/make a
> > > new site when you register there.
> > > Im already registered on Wikidot, so we could begin to try.
>
> > > 2011/3/7 Youbzh <mat.hub...@gmail.com>
>
> > > > I think I could give it a try... I was just wondering if the page

> > > >http://clementine.wikidot.com/shouldbe used for that purpose. Should

[David Dušanić]

That is great, I will give you the permissions to edit stuff, I mean to edit more not only content.

I did not write anything on the Wiki itself. 

We will talk more about it. At the moment Im on vacation but I try to see what is going on.

So, if you have any questions, let me know. You can PM me on the same eMail adress Im using for the groups.

We need also a layout, to be consistent with the official site and of course an ordered content. (a doc about every aspect of Clementine)

Feel free to chat via google chat if you want.

2011/3/7 Youbzh <mat.h...@gmail.com>

[Keiran Halcyon]

So what's the address of the page?

Most of those articles:

http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/w/list

should be moved to the new wiki I guess. There are some more technical
ones but also some for users.

P.

> > > > >http://clementine.wikidot.com/shouldbeused for that purpose. Should

[David Dušanić]

Yes, of course, we will transport all articles to the Wiki from google.code.

The address is http://clementine-player.wikidot.com/. Its private at the moment (under construction).

If you want I will give you also permissions to edit/see the site, whatever.

Our plan was to make some basic layout stuff before to open it that other users can contribute.

2011/3/8 Keiran Halcyon <keir...@gmail.com>

[Keiran Halcyon]

Great! Let me know when something's ready, I'd like to see it. :)

P.

On 8 Mar, 11:34, David Dušanić <ivanovne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yes, of course, we will transport all articles to the Wiki from google.code.

> The address ishttp://clementine-player.wikidot.com/. Its private at the

> moment (under construction).
> If you want I will give you also permissions to edit/see the site, whatever.
> Our plan was to make some basic layout stuff before to open it that other
> users can contribute.
>

> 2011/3/8 Keiran Halcyon <keiran...@gmail.com>

> > > > > > >http://clementine.wikidot.com/shouldbeusedfor that purpose.

[David Dušanić]

Yes, of course.

2011/3/9 Keiran Halcyon <keir...@gmail.com>

[Garthhh]

I just noticed The Wiki is open un officially

have a look around

I'm sure someone will make an announcement at some point

[David Dušanić]

Just to notify, the work on a documentation/user manual is in progess. It is in a very early stage but we hope go forward as 0.7 is coming also soon out and with it new users. :)

Please be a little bit patient, it will be an open site so that all users if they want can contribute, just let us make some basic layout things and content before opening the site to the public. At least it should look good.

At the moment Im on vacation.

If somebody has questions, please contact me here or better on my email address, its the same like here, also on IRC Clementine but Im not very often there, I know I should be more. :)

2011/3/12 Garthhh <gcho...@gmail.com>

[ivanovnegro]

As I can see more and more people want to contribute to write
documentation I will open up the Wiki.
I cannot invite more people to do things in private mode, it will be
public so more people could begin to help and write documentation.
We were only two persons in charge and time is not our friend so we
did not do much but we have a start page and some things.
So it should be open in some time and you can just join, who ever want
to contribute to apply membership.
We have yet articles on http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/w/list,
we have to include them.
Here the Wiki site: http://clementine-player.wikidot.com/.

> > > > >http://clementine.wikidot.com/shouldbeused for that purpose. Should

[Keiran Halcyon]

Great, keep on working!

P.

On 25 Kwi, 20:54, ivanovnegro <ivanovne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> As I can see more and more people want to contribute to write
> documentation I will open up the Wiki.
> I cannot invite more people to do things in private mode, it will be
> public so more people could begin to help and write documentation.
> We were only two persons in charge and time is not our friend so we
> did not do much but we have a start page and some things.
> So it should be open in some time and you can just join, who ever want
> to contribute to apply membership.

> We have yet articles onhttp://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/w/list,

> > > > > >http://clementine.wikidot.com/shouldbeusedfor that purpose. Should

[fidel]

@Keiran,

whats the current state of the idea? I see the google wiki is still poorly filled - so i assume there wasn’t any work on it in the last months. Still willing to change this?



greetings
fidel

[TheMacGuy]

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

On Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:25:33 AM UTC-8, Keiran Halcyon wrote:

As everybody knows, Clementine<snip> it desperately needs some kind of user manual.

<snip>  If you're interested in participating or just wan't to state your 

opinion about the project, please leave a comment below.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Love to!  I've spent years grinding my teeth at manuals that go:  "....after that step is complete, you just....." 

and then skip over some "obvious"  to THEM-but-not-ME  bit of detail that is a total road-block. Period. Full. Stop... 

I've spent the past 25 years teaching and educating "elderly" people to use Mac

computers, and in the process writing all sorts of "summarized" step-wise instructional hand-outs to boil-down

several chapters of "geek-speak" into a one or two page hand-out of what they NEED to know, in clear simple steps...

So, Yes, I'd. Like. To. Help... :o)  

[Nigelsch]

I'd like to chip in as well.  I can host a mediawiki site if that would be helpful. 

[John O'Shock]

I'd like to help but can only start from June, I'm good at writing and have a professional audio background going back to the early nineties.....
plus, I think Clementine is the best audio player and music librarian available on Linux and the only one with a future, certainly things like using Clementine for external audio devices with the Jack Audiosink requires clear instruction.

On Sunday, 16 January 2011 20:25:33 UTC+8, Keiran Halcyon wrote:

As everybody knows, Clementine lacks any help system aside of a few
online wiki articles available here: http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/w/list.
We might say that 'the application is simple enough' but deep inside
we all know that it desperately needs some kind of user manual. Such
thing makes application more 'available', more 'professional' and it
'helps' with everyday tasks. Also, it let's people discover some not-
so-obvious features.

I see that many people here are involved in 'triaging' bugs and / or
just simple everyday discussion. So, let me ask you this - is there
anybody here who'd like to participate more, in this kind of project?
We'd need people to supervise the whole process and more people who'd
like to write a chapter or two.

As for the form the project and it's results should take, I have
nothing special in mind at this point. I'm not sure how the whole help
system should work - a wiki, help available in Clementine's menu, a
'quickstart' PDF or even all three of those.

[Catharina Carey]

I have a question regarding Clementine. I have a mac and I downloaded clementine, I tried adding music to the library but when I click on the folder I want the "choose" button will not let me click it. I've uninstalled it and reinstalled it and nothing changed. If you could help me figure out what's wrong that would be greatly appreciated. 

[Avery Hudson]

This is worrisome. If Clementine doesn't have a viable support system I don't see how the software can be sustainable. I had hoped Clementine would be a good alternative to iTunes (which I've found seriously problematic), but I'm beginning to think I'll have to keep looking. Though I will be glad to help build a community to support Clementine users if there are developers who would be interested in joining.

[Phillip Mayeaux]

Agreed, I just need to know how to eliminate duplicates and can Clementine export to create a file list to a thumb drive to play in vehicles?
Help

[Chip Milligan]

Really? No tutorial or manual? I am also looking for an alternative to iTunes, but something that offers support and a user guide. Geez, come on, Clementine...

Chip

[Alexander Mueller]

Honestly, I feel like the app should be "self-explaining" (i.e. if there are bits where a user might stumble on a problem, have an explanation right there in the program (context is super important), maybe hidden behind a "how do I use this?" button) and if you have a particular problem just do a web search, or ask in the support forums. To me it seems like manuals are from the 90ies, or reserved for highly specialized programms like audio editing or data analytics programs...

But I am not discouraging anyone who wants to work on it.

[Horio Rodriguez]

I'm in. I can write implementations that I'd like to see and one bug. But who can compile these? Also- I'm on a Mac and am limited to that version. Some things:

-No guide (or Wiki)

-Confusing playlist backup

-No ability to either bookmark or 'rate' (star system I guess...) songs for quick retrieval

-Sound on 'automatic' does not work- I have to change it to 'sound output' channel every time

[Адам Ванцаев]

Clementine1.3.1/не/работает/на/OS/Mojave

[Renaissance Man]

I'm for you.

I'm a disabled, 61 year old whose most recent professional experience was as a Tier II Internet support specialist for a regional cable services provider, In addition to monitoring our network for trouble spots, I did a lot of writing, explaining to our customer service staff how to support customers that were experiencing Internet connectivity issues. My educational background is in the natural and health sciences and I taught professionally just after graduating with my Bachelor of Sciences degree.

I am a committed and passionate supporter of Free and Open Source Software and a member of the Free Software Foundation. One of the many issues that the FSF has identified as a seriously problematic shortcoming for FOSS is lack of documentation for the programs created.  As a user, I know from my own experience how frustrating it can be to attempt to reason your way through the operation of a piece of software that's supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread and so intuitive that anyone with half a brain can operate it.  People!  Has anyone bothered to look at how the dictionary defines intuitive? The Oxford Dictionary of English defines intuitive as "Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive."  From my point of view there simply isn't anything intuitive about computers or computer software!  They haven't been around long enough for human beings to develop instinctual reasoning about them!  For now though, let me step off of my soap box....

I would be happy to work as a team member developing the approach that will be used in breaking down Clementine into it manifold functions and I will be equally happy to serve as an editor for the documentation.  To begin with, however, SOMEONE who really has a good working knowledge of Clementine as it is at version 1.3.1 is going to need to take charge of this project and become the 'ramrod' that makes it happen.  I certainly have the desire, but I have neither the time, nor the patience to lead a project like this.

[Ed Dowgiallo]

Hi,

I'm new to music management software. Clementine is the first one I've tried, and I like it a lot. I do have questions though.

• I can't figure out how to change the genre of an album after it has been ripped into the library.
• How do I change the album title and artist name as well.
• If I have an album that is something like a classics sampler, can I take singles from the album and group them under the artist name? 
• Can I group singles into my own albums?

Thank you,

Ed

[Steve Redshaw]

hi Ed,

• I can't figure out how to change the genre of an album after it has been ripped into the library - In the left hand pane displaying the contents of your Library, right-click on an album title, then left-click on Edit track information
• How do I change the album title and artist name as well - all tags are displayed and can be changed, then left-click the Save button
  
• If I have an album that is something like a classics sampler, can I take singles from the album and group them under the artist name? - if the tracks have been tagged properly they should show up under the artists in your library list no matter what album they are actually on, left-hand pane with Library selected
• Can I group singles into my own albums? - Yes, you can group them in a virtual album through editing their tags, right-click a song, left-click Edit track information. This might involve you searching around your library listing, but if you store the files of the singles you want to group together in a sub-folder of your record collection main folder, you can find and open that folder in Clementine using the Files option, you will see all the track/song files displayed and can edit tags for each as described above

Hope that helps - Steve