Persistent Paragon kiln issue with TCR/-200 message
May Luk
Happy New Year!
I have a Paragon TNF23-3 C/10, (22.5 x 22.25 - 5.1 CU FT) I have
bought this kiln new in Oct 2007. After 2 years of normal usage, I
finally have to change the element in November 09. I have also changed
brand new thermocouples and relay. The installation was done by a
reputable kiln person. Since then I have been getting TCR / -200
message on and off. I checked the wires and such. Then finally, my
kiln person took the circuit board out and replaced it with Orton.
Luckily the board was still under warranty. Still, I have many very
stressful nights right before holiday selling season, plus extra
electricity bill on top of my already high overhead.
At any rate, I have installed the new circuit board end of December, I
have since then fired 5 times without incident. Yesterday, I just got
a TRC/-200 message with a bisque firing incomplete.
I would like to know if you have any experience or advice on this. I
don't want to go to Clayart because Arnold is on it. (I have not had
good experience dealing with their "tech support") I would like to
have a more open conversation here. In the meantime, I have left a
message on the Paragon FB page. My kiln person is checking with
Orton.
Thanks for any input.
May
rickma...@comcast.net
May, do you have a manual that tells what the TCR 200 message means?
rick
-- Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com
May Luk
then the error message. From my understanding is: if it goes up in the
first place, it is not reversed physically. I have fired 5 times since
the new circuit board without incident. Something is making the
computer reading wonky, I don't know what.
This is back in November:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/4147259700/in/set-72157622781087787/
Andy of Circa Ceramics left a message, but I did not understand what
he was saying. Glaze chemistry is the furthest I can go. I am only a
potter/ceramicist. I bought a new kiln because I do not ever want to
open up a kiln like this. "-)
Thanks!
May
> -- Photo log at:http://claycraft.blogspot.com/To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com
Louis Katz
TCR I believe means Thermocouple reversed. It could be you have a short somewhere in the lead wires .
It could be that the thermocouple is correct but the lead wires are not.
The wires are specific, one is for the positive side of the thermocouple, the other lead wire is another alloy and is for the negative side.
http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM204_Sentry12key_Conefire_2007.pdf
PAge 28,29 and 30 I think.
Louis
--- On Mon, 1/11/10, rickma...@comcast.net <rickma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: rickma...@comcast.net <rickma...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln issue with TCR/-200 message
> To: clay...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 12:36 PM
> #yiv1001544732 p
> {margin:0;}May,
> do you have a manual that tells what the TCR 200 message
> means?
>
> rick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "May Luk" <maylukceramics@gmail..com>
> To: "ClayCraft"
> <clay...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:01:47 AM GMT -08:00
> US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln issue with
> TCR/-200 message
>
> Hello all; Happy New Year! I have a Paragon TNF23-3 C/10,
> (22.5 x 22.25 - 5.1 CU FT) I have bought this kiln new in
> Oct 2007. After 2 years of normal usage, I finally have to
> change the element in November 09.. I have also changed brand
> new thermocouples and relay. The installation was done by a
> reputable kiln person. Since then I have been getting TCR /
> -200 message on and off. I checked the wires and such. Then
> finally, my kiln person took the circuit board out and
> replaced it with Orton. Luckily the board was still under
> warranty. Still, I have many very stressful nights right
> before holiday selling season, plus extra electricity bill
> on top of my already high overhead. At any rate, I have
> installed the new circuit board end of December, I have
> since then fired 5 times without incident. Yesterday, I just
> got a TRC/-200 message with a bisque firing incomplete. I
> would like to know if you have any experience or advice on
> this. I don't want to go to Clayart because Arnold is on
> it. (I have not had good experience dealing with their
> "tech support") I would like to have a more open
> conversation here. In the meantime, I have left a message on
> the Paragon FB page. My kiln person is checking with Orton.
> Thanks for any input. May
> -- Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ To
> unsubscribe send email to
> Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com--
May Luk
Wouldn't the error message come up right away, but not after a few
normal firing and then unexpectedly showed up?
Thanks!
May
On Jan 11, 2:40 pm, Louis Katz <louisk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> May, Rick
> TCR I believe means Thermocouple reversed. It could be you have a short somewhere in the lead wires .
> It could be that the thermocouple is correct but the lead wires are not.
> The wires are specific, one is for the positive side of the thermocouple, the other lead wire is another alloy and is for the negative side.http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM204_Sentry12key_Conefire_20...
> PAge 28,29 and 30 I think.
>
> Louis
>
> --- On Mon, 1/11/10, rickmahaf...@comcast.net <rickmahaf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > -- Photo log at:http://claycraft.blogspot.com/To
> > unsubscribe send email to
> > Claycraft-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com--
Irakusa
bill geisinger
bill
Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
May Luk
This is last November right after I changed the elements and relays
and thermocouple by a kiln technician. I was so freaked out (cause I
was under deadlines) that I opened the kiln, made sure the wiring was
tight before I fired. Then I got the error message again.
Then the technician sent the circuit board to Orton and have it
exchanged. On a side note, the technician is a certified Skutt kiln
specialist.
I have 5 completed firing after that. Now I have the error message
again (mid-way through a bisque)
Could this be a human error. dust. or a faulty parts? From an end user
point of view, this is too much opening the kiln panel for my taste. I
am only a ceramicist. I barely made $9,000 gross sales last year and I
worked very hard. ($1,000 expense went to repair the kiln) I already
spent a substantial amount of time testing glaze and clay and
designing my wares....
Sorry, I'm off on a tangent. It is very frustrating.
Thanks for your time
May
On Jan 11, 5:24 pm, bill geisinger <geisin...@deanza.edu> wrote:
> If it's a short as the kiln heats up it can cause the wire to expand and
> touch another wire or the side of the kiln. You might have something as
> simple as a loose screw on the thermocouple connection. Take it all apart
> and blow the dust out too!
>
> bill
>
Louis Katz
When you do get this worked out, if you know what the problem was please let us know.
Louis
Faculty show at the Island University in Corpus TX Jan 28
--- On Mon, 1/11/10, bill geisinger <geis...@deanza.edu> wrote:
gie
Me as an instrumenttechnician think the most chance for solving te
problem is to change the thermocouple. Becourse when it heats up it
fails, this is a typical fault.
To be shore the wires are ok: Disconnect one wire at the thermocouple
side. Connect the wires together under one screw. Display should show
enviremont temperature like 20°C. wiggel with the wires to be shore no
bad conntacts.
When restalling connections dont mix the wires!
Succes,,,,,,,hope this helps.
Gie
Neon-Cat
Arnold and the gals at Paragon have been super nice to me in emails and on the phone, from maiden voyage, to some info I wanted on air circulation, to my great meltdown of ware freak-out. I enjoyed chatting with all of them and found them sweet, funny (as in good-natured), and educational. I wish you were having the same type of experience.
Is the thermocouple the right rating for cone 10? There is a low temp and high temp version. You'd need a type S or R (not a K) for work over 2200 F). Firing the low temp one higher than its rating would ruin it.
In my manuals there is a TC 2- error code listed. This would mean the middle zone thermocouple failed. It is hooked to the center two terminals. (yours looks like it is suppose to in your photo.) They have a test for thermocouples -- jump it out with wire or a paperclip, replace faceplace with a couple of screws, then plug-in. If your board reads room temp, replace this thermocouple. If it reads FAIL replace the board. ("Jumping out" means you run the wire from one to another in a short loop, connecting them.)
The button connectors like you have may have a wire all the way pushed-in but then they can still be loose. Buttons stick. Pull on each wire to see. If not tight you'd get the failure error message because it would read it is as not being there or not working right.
Also check insulation that you can see. That would give a PLOG error message though.
Want me to call and ask Arnold or one of the gals if you don't get an answer by trying the jumping-out trick? They are not too far from me. I'd be happy to do it for you.
Chin up. I know it must be horrible for you.
There is always just the right answer.
Marian
--- On Mon, 1/11/10, May Luk <maylukc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: May Luk <maylukc...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln issue with TCR/-200 message
> > If it's a short as the kiln heats up it can cause the
> wire to expand and
> > touch another wire or the side of the kiln. You might
> have something as
> > simple as a loose screw on the thermocouple
> connection. Take it all apart
> > and blow the dust out too!
> >
> > bill
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:58 PM, May Luk <maylukceram...@gmail.com>
rickma...@comcast.net
May, you might carefully look around for some trace of the short. In doing diagnosis it is a bad idea to just start by cleaning everything. A short of the type talked about usually leaves a track or at least some discoloring of the the metal that a spark jumps to. Also look for burned wires and anyother discolored metal that attaches to wires or is near wires.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Katz" <loui...@yahoo.com>
To: clay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:52:43 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln issue with TCR/-200 message
Intermittent problems in anything are the hardest to handle unless you can find the cause of the intermittency (is that a word? It is now anyways.) Shorting to the case is a good theory. As the thermocouple heats up the voltage it produces goes up. At some point it might produce enough voltage to "jump" a gap (to the case or elsewhere) and cause an error. These sorts of shorts are often hard to find in other devices as they don't show up with ohm meters which are low voltage devices. Ohm meters will probably be able to detect this short however, as a thermocouple is also a low voltage device. When you do get this worked out, if you know what the problem was please let us know. Louis Faculty show at the Island University in Corpus TX Jan 28 --- On Mon, 1/11/10, bill geisinger wrote: > From: bill geisinger > Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln issue with TCR/-200 message > To: clay...@googlegroups.com > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 4:24 PM > If it's a short as the kiln heats up it > can cause the wire to expand and touch another wire or the > side of the kiln. You might have something as simple as a > loose screw on the thermocouple connection. Take it all > apart and blow the dust out too! > > > bill > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:58 PM, > May Luk > wrote: > > Hello Louis or anybody: > > > > Wouldn't the error message come up right away, but not > after a few > > normal firing and then unexpectedly showed up? > > > > Thanks! > > May > > > > On Jan 11, 2:40 pm, Louis Katz > wrote: > > > May, Rick > > > TCR I believe means Thermocouple reversed. It could be > you have a short somewhere in the lead wires . > > > It could be that the thermocouple is correct but the > lead wires are not. > > > The wires are specific, one is for the positive side > of the thermocouple, the other lead wire is another alloy > and is for the negative side.http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM204_Sentry12key_Conefire_20... > > > > PAge 28,29 and 30 I think. > > > > > > Louis > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, rickmahaf...@comcast.net > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: rickmahaf...@comcast.net > > > > > Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln > issue with TCR/-200 message > > > > To: clay...@googlegroups.com > > > > Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 12:36 PM > > > > #yiv1001544732 p > > > > {margin:0;}May, > > > > do you have a manual that tells what the TCR 200 > message > > > > means? > > > > > > > > rick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "May Luk" > > > > > To: "ClayCraft" > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:01:47 AM GMT > -08:00 > > > > US/Canada Pacific > > > > Subject: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon kiln > issue with > > > > TCR/-200 message > > > > > > > Hello all; Happy New Year! I have a Paragon > TNF23-3 C/10, > > > > (22.5 x 22.25 - 5.1 CU FT) I have bought this > kiln new in > > > > Oct 2007. After 2 years of normal usage, I > finally have to > > > > change the element in November 09.. I have also > changed brand > > > > new thermocouples and relay. The installation was > done by a > > > > reputable kiln person. Since then I have been > getting TCR / > > > > -200 message on and off. I checked the wires and > such. Then > > > > finally, my kiln person took the circuit board > out and > > > > replaced it with Orton. Luckily the board was > still under > > > > warranty. Still, I have many very stressful > nights right > > > > before holiday selling season, plus extra > electricity bill > > > > on top of my already high overhead. At any rate, > I have > > > > installed the new circuit board end of December, > I have > > > > since then fired 5 times without incident. > Yesterday, I just > > > > got a TRC/-200 message with a bisque firing > incomplete. I > > > > would like to know if you have any experience or > advice on > > > > this. I don't want to go to Clayart because > Arnold is on > > > > it. (I have not had good experience dealing with > their > > > > "tech support") I would like to have a > more open > > > > conversation here. In the meantime, I have left a > message on > > > > the Paragon FB page. My kiln person is checking > with Orton. > > > > Thanks for any input. May > > > > -- Photo log at:http://claycraft.blogspot.com/To > > > > unsubscribe send email to > > > > Claycraft-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com-- > > > > Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ > > > > To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com > > > -- > > Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ > > To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com > > > -- > Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ > To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com
Neon-Cat
My first high fire adventure soon after I got the kiln had me calling Paragon round about 1850 F to see if they could check to make sure they'd provided the type S with my kiln. I hadn't verified this when I got the kiln but reading the manual got me thinking and worrying and wondering if I should abort my firing. As firing temp crept up one of the service gals at Paragon (by phone) walked me through verifying thermocouple type as I fired (I am pretty much electronics challenged -- too many buttons, codes, and things). The tech soon had me laughing and happy again and much more educated about MY kiln.
So, with my Paragon kiln type I do need other than the more standard pottery type K thermocouple for my firing whims. Even though I don't have a gazillion years of practical experience under my belt sometimes I actually do know what I am talking about. Perhaps May's Paragon model calls for other than type K, too -- I don't know but it's something she might feel is worth checking depending on how she is firing.
Marian
Arnold Howard
you are having with the controller, May. I can only imagine how
frustrating that is for you.
The TCR error message can appear in cold weather where the firing room
is -32F and the controller itself is 70F or higher. However, Orton has
just corrected the programming to eliminate this type of error.
Other possibilities are a defect in the temperature measurement
circuit or memory corruption of the circuit board. If the thermocouple
wires are connected properly at the back of the controller and at the
thermocouple, then I believe the circuit board is faulty, even though
it is new.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
aho...@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
On Jan 11, 7:08 pm, Neon-Cat <neon...@flash.net> wrote:
> Sorry you're having problems, May.
> Arnold and the gals at Paragon have been super nice to me in emails and on the phone, from maiden voyage, to some info I wanted on air circulation, to my great meltdown of ware freak-out. I enjoyed chatting with all of them and found them sweet, funny (as in good-natured), and educational. I wish you were having the same type of experience.
>
> Is the thermocouple the right rating for cone 10? There is a low temp and high temp version. You'd need a type S or R (not a K) for work over 2200 F). Firing the low temp one higher than its rating would ruin it.
>
> In my manuals there is a TC 2- error code listed. This would mean the middle zone thermocouple failed. It is hooked to the center two terminals. (yours looks like it is suppose to in your photo.) They have a test for thermocouples -- jump it out with wire or a paperclip, replace faceplace with a couple of screws, then plug-in. If your board reads room temp, replace this thermocouple. If it reads FAIL replace the board. ("Jumping out" means you run the wire from one to another in a short loop, connecting them.)
>
> The button connectors like you have may have a wire all the way pushed-in but then they can still be loose. Buttons stick. Pull on each wire to see. If not tight you'd get the failure error message because it would read it is as not being there or not working right.
>
> Also check insulation that you can see. That would give a PLOG error message though.
>
> Want me to call and ask Arnold or one of the gals if you don't get an answer by trying the jumping-out trick? They are not too far from me. I'd be happy to do it for you.
>
> Chin up. I know it must be horrible for you.
> There is always just the right answer.
>
> Marian
>
> --- On Mon, 1/11/10, May Luk <maylukceram...@gmail.com> wrote:
Neon-Cat
And no, ya all, I did not contact Arnold or Paragon about May's kiln issues.
Marian
--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Arnold Howard <aho...@paragonweb.com> wrote:
Arnold Howard
> You're welcome, Arnold. I'm happy thus far with my kiln.
>
> And no, ya all, I did not contact Arnold or Paragon about
> May's kiln issues.
>
> Marian
I actually found May's kiln discussion through a haphazard
Google search. I was curious about the difference between
Google Groups and Yahoo Groups and discovered Claycraft.
May, call Paragon at 800-876-4328 and ask for Susan. Or call
Orton at 800-999-5442.
Lee
> I actually found May's kiln discussion through a haphazard Google search. I
> was curious about the difference between Google Groups and Yahoo Groups and
> discovered Claycraft.
Arnold, googlegroups are incredibly easy to administrate. A
great feature is that all new folks are started in review, then I
change them to no review after their first post and I see they aren't
a spammer. It catches almost all spam mail, while allowing
instantaneous posting and response. Which means, you can often get
real time help, like Clayart in the old days.
--
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
Arnold Howard
> Arnold, googlegroups are incredibly easy to
> administrate. A
> great feature is that all new folks are started in review,
> then I
> change them to no review after their first post and I see
> they aren't
> a spammer.
Lee, I'm very impressed with Google Groups. Thanks.
More thoughts on May's TCR error message:
A memory corruption error on the Orton controller is often
accompanied with a -328F temperature reading.
The kiln wiring can cause controller memory corruption:
1) Relay-to-element lead wires are wrapped around or running
parallel to the thermocouple wires.
2) Relay-to-element lead wires are placed close to the back
of the controller circuit board.
Keep other wires away from the thermocouple wires. The
voltage reading from the thermocouple is so very small that
the electromagnetic field from nearby wires can interfere
with the thermocouple readings. This applies to the Bartlett
and Orton controllers. (The earlier Paragons have the
Bartlett controller.)
After rearranging the wires in the switch box, turn the
power off and then reboot the controller.
May Luk
Though, deep down, I am resentful of having to look at the inside of
the kiln and its wirings. This is just a personal preference about
ceramics equipments. There is only so much one person can do.
Arnold; your controller memory corruption is worth investigating. I
only deduced this much: the kiln was not working properly since the
technician changed the elements and other parts. The parts were bought
through Paragon with my serial number, so I trust that they are the
right parts. So it's either the person who did it made some changes or
the parts were faulty.
Marion: Thanks for the encouragement. I am on the verge of wrapping it
all up Sunday about ceramics. I am actually having a cold and not able
to go to day job (double whamy!)
Thanks again to everybody who has contributed. I will try to get to
the kiln and take some pictures about the wiring later.
May
On Jan 12, 1:37 pm, "Arnold Howard" <ahow...@paragonweb.com> wrote:
> From: "Lee" <toge...@gmail.com>> Arnold, googlegroups are incredibly easy to
May Luk
Apology for a very boring viewing. I even downloaded the wiring
diagram. But I can't make out what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'.
This is beyond my education.
If the photos shed some lights on anything. Please kindly let me
know.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/sets/72157623205918556/
Thanks for your time
May
Arnold Howard
switch box looks good. I am forwarding your last email to
Paragon's customer service manager.
Thanks for your patience.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
May Luk
Tonight the technician came and check the box, put in new relays,
snubber network (those red thingies for the relay chatter).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/4301628187/in/set-72157623154250083/
1- initial testing: 9999 deg, fired to 120 deg C, no problem
2- put in my usual bisque firing ramp
3 - Three minute into the firing, stopped and TCR / -200 (temp is
centigrade)
4- open box, short and reset the thermocouple.
5- cone fire 06, standard, start
6- 23 minutes into the firing and TCR / -200
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/sets/72157623154250083/
Everything that can be fixed and replaced are fixed and replaced. Two
new sets of relays, new thermocouples, new circuit board. 2.5 year old
kiln bought brand new. I don't know how to trouble shoot this kiln.
What can it be? It can't be that complicated, it is only a kiln!
Will be calling Paragon in the morning. (But it is very difficult to
call Paragon if I am not around the kiln, I have to go to day job to
make money)
In the meantime, I have to think of plan B, what would you do as a
business person? I have no equipment to continue my business. I spent
over $10,000 for this start up. I am doing back-breaking, 6 days work
week. Do I spend more money to buy kiln B in order to continue? (How
many plates I have to sell to get my $3,000 back?) Or do I just fold
it, save my studio rent money and take 2 cruises, go back to my Samba
percussion lessons and maybe start putting some money for retirement.
Regarding equipments, there is a Skutt and a L&L in the same studio,
but I cannot borrow it because I fire to cone 8/9 and my studio mates'
kilns are for cone 6's.
Thanks!
May
On Jan 12, 1:05 pm, "Arnold Howard" <ahow...@paragonweb.com> wrote:
> From: "Neon-Cat" <neon...@flash.net>> You're welcome, Arnold. I'm happy thus far with my kiln.
>
> > And no, ya all, I did not contact Arnold or Paragon about
> > May's kiln issues.
>
> > Marian
>
> ------------
> I actually found May's kiln discussion through a haphazard
> Google search. I was curious about the difference between
> Google Groups and Yahoo Groups and discovered Claycraft.
>
> May, call Paragon at 800-876-4328 and ask for Susan. Or call
> Orton at 800-999-5442.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
Lee
hambone
either the technician's work or the parts installed. The technician
has double-checked, but can't locate the problem. That in and of
itself tells me you need a more qualified technician. There isn't a
problem that he/she should not be able to locate, should not be
willing to solve, that justifies their supposed expertise. Period.
They should be able to track the problem down to a set of
possibilities, through trial and error. This is purely a case of
customer service and follow through on the part of the technician. He/
she should be sweating all this, not the customer. Setting a price on
a job is always a risk, some jobs are harder, some jobs are easier. In
my humble opinion.
Right, it's just a kiln. You may be able to find another electrician
willing to solve this regardless of whether or not they are certified
in kiln work or not. You may be forced to do a lot of asking around
however.
hansen
On Jan 25, 12:30 am, May Luk <maylukceram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all;
>
> Tonight the technician came and check the box, put in new relays,
> snubber network (those red thingies for the relay chatter).
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/4301628187/in/set-7215762315425...
Fredrick Paget
Now there is one thing I always held in my mind during the many. many
years I worked in electricity and electronics -first as a Chief
Electrician on ships in the old US Merchant Marine and later as an
electrical engineer after I went back to University and got my BSEE
and that is:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MAGIC!
There is a logical reason for all the trouble and it just has to be
found and fixed.
Here is what I think may be the cause.
The thermocouple wires are not proper thermocouple extension wire or
if they are they may be hooked up at the kiln end backwards.
First of all here is a primer on thermocouples.
<http://www.omega.com/thermocouples.html>
The type K for instance is made by welding together two heavy pieces
of wire that go in the kiln, One wire is Nickel-Chromium and the
other is Nickel-Aluminum.
When you join these two different alloy wires and heat the joint you
get a tiny electrical voltage generated.
From there two small extension grade wires are hooked on to the
thermocouple and run up to the control board.
These wires are special and in the type k, they each are made out of
the same alloy as the heavy wire that each one is hooked to. They are
color coded - red and +yellow.
If they are hooked to the heavy wire of the other alloy you have just
created two more type k thermocouples in that circuit and when th
kiln heats up they are on the outside of the kiln but get some heat,
become active, and who knows what bad result you get.
At the control board end you no doubt hooked the wires so that if
you heated the end of the thermocouple in the kiln the temperature
reading goes up. now heat he outside joints with a hair dryer or
something and see if it affects the reading, It should not.
Worse yet if some one used plain copper wire for the hookup wire ,
Instead of type K extension wire you have two unknown thermocouples
working in the circuit when they get heated up a bit.
-200 you say?
Could be.
Best of luck,
Fred
--
Fred Paget
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
fred...@well.com>
Charter Member Potters Council
jo01...@olypen.com
some of my lab instruments went south with
regularity. Frequently, the cause was some solid
state device that failed when it heated up. In that
case, we'd find the bad device using a heat gun. In
one case, we found a FET that failed cold but worked
when it warmed up. That was a bit harder to trace.
Probably not that at all in May's case. I hope it's
something easy like a connection breaking when the
temp rises. I'm thinking cold solder joint.
Good luck!
~jess
.................................
Date sent: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:18:08 -0800
To: clay...@googlegroups.com
From: Fredrick Paget <fred...@well.com>
Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Persistent Paragon
kiln issue with TCR/-200 message
Send reply to: clay...@googlegroups.com
[ Double-click this line for list subscription
options ]
-200 you say?
Could be.
Best of luck,
Fred
--
Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-
Paul Herman
Thanks for an excellent post. I have a question for you, but will have
to explain a little first.
Some years ago I had a conversation with my friend David W, a ceramic
instrumentation engineer who worked for Honeywell for many years. His
opinion was that it was really dumb to hang the computer right on the
side of the kiln, where the brain gets roasted by radiant heat. He put
his controller over on the wall, several feet from the kiln, and never
had a problem.
My partner Joe bought a new electric kiln to bisque fire in about ten
years ago. It had a controller stuck right on the side of the kiln.
Within a year the brain had been roasted to death, and Joe installed
three manual switches which he continues to use today. I'm lucky with
my Skutt manual kiln for bisquing, it alway works.
The question: In your opinion, should kiln manufacturers put the
controller somewhere else, rather than on the side of the hot kiln?
I wonder how complicated it could be for the manufacturers to just
install a switch to optionally make the kiln into a manual, right from
the factory.
Best wishes,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
May Luk
I am not Fred, but my opinion is YES!
This is my Cambridge Controller from England. The hardwired switch
next to it on the wall. I miss that - having the controller on the
wall! Note only 4 buttons on the controller and I could still read the
KW per firing. This is added onto a manual kiln. (All kilns are
manual, until one adds on a controller if chooses to)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/74731879/
My studio mate Lynn has a manual L & L, she added a controller and
it's on the wall. I am going to do the same on my next kiln purchase,
so that I can have a back up if the controller fails.
Many thanks to everybody who added in your 2 cents, I am learning.
Best Regards
May
Arnold Howard
> The question: In your opinion, should kiln manufacturers
> put the controller somewhere else, rather than on the
> side of the hot kiln?
>
> I wonder how complicated it could be for the manufacturers
> to just install a switch to optionally make the kiln into
> a manual, right from the factory.
Paul, that is a very good idea. One of the reasons the
standard digital kilns still have the controller in the
kiln's switch box is that the controllers rarely fail. It is
more often the transformer or a relay.
May's controller problem is unusual. From time to time I
still hear from people who fire a DTC 100C, a controller we
made here at Paragon. It had only one segment. (In around
1992, we farmed out the controller business to Bartlett
Instruments.)
One option is to order a manual kiln with a separate
portable controller that mounts on the wall. The kiln plugs
into the controller, and the controller plugs into the wall.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
Angela Rogers
hold up fired at cone 10, if it were done on a regular basis. I have
two of the round paragon kilns, the hot ones, but I was told that the
elements will burn out if I fire it that high. I want to know before
I spend $5000.00!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:08 AM, "Arnold Howard" <aho...@paragonweb.com>
wrote:
> --
> Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
> To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com