Oxidation celadon like color

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Jan 16, 2008, 12:12:45 PM1/16/08

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Denise,

I had a couple of students who did not like the chance that there might be an oxidized area on their celadon pots. They would spray a light coat of our light blue glaze on the top of the celadon. I thought our old kiln was reducing evenly, but it wasn't. I was fooled by the celadon like color of the oxidized celadon (about 1 to 1.5% Red Iron Oxide in a clear glaze) with the pale blue (around 1/16% of cobalt carb) sprayed over the top. As stated earlier, the oxidized celadon color is yellow the cobalt glaze will be blue so yellow + blue = green.

Rick

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Denise Joyal" <nis...@gmail.com>
Sorry, I wasn't trying to start a philosophical discussion regarding the nature of what is or isn't a true celadon. (Though I find that topic very interesting, so please continue) I was just trying to share something that worked and may have been in the mystery bucket as the article with the recipe I quoted does call it Elaine Coleman's Celadon. Maybe it should be renamed Elaine's Faux Celadon. Or maybe we can call them "unceladons" as a general rule.

Either way, it's possible that they were using a variation of her recipe from that article, thought the recipe CC suggested seems more likely and wouldn't certainly be the one I'd try first.

Elaine's Faux Celadon's results are nice though, even if it's not bubbles, but stain that causes the coloring. My thoughts were th at the stain allows for anyone working in oxidation to have a shot at the otherwise impossible task of producing a color similar to a celadon. Mine were fired in reduction, but I do plan to test it at cone 8 Ox to see how it turns out. The college where I teach a class only has an electirc kiln, so I'd like to see if it's possible. I have a student who has fallen in love with porcelain and would like to see her have some nice glazes to use on her pieces. I'll share the results good, bad, ugly or unceladon.

Regards,

Denise

On Jan 16, 2008 3:17 AM, ClayCraft group <nor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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Today's topics:

* 5 new messages in 3 topics - digest - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/5a1cdbf1329385a8?hl=en
* *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/74a13370cc76df6c?hl=en
* *ClayCraft* Tom Coleman celadon glaze - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/88dc08c65abbfbd5?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 5 new messages in 3 topics - digest
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/5a1cdbf1329385a8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 6:08 am
From: "Denise Joyal"

Elaine Coleman uses a mason stain in her Celadons to achieve the blues and
greens she gets. It's possible someone may have used any number of mason
stains to get the color you had if they didn't use the recipe CC has below.

That being said, I've had great luck using the recipe he re with a mason
stain, so if you don't get results you like from CC's recipe feel free to
try this one. The green mason stains do not burn out at all at cone 10R, I
haven't tried blue yet, but judging from her pots, I'm sure it'll work out
nicely.

Here's the recipe I use from an old Ceramics Monthly issue:

Elaine's Celadon Base Glaze

(Cone 8-11, reduction)
Whiting ....................................... 21.24%
Zinc Oxide .................................... 2.74
Custer Feldspar ............................ 24.87
Frit 3110 (Ferro) ........................... 8.76
EPK (Edgar Plastic Kaolin) .............. 17.52
Silica (200-mesh Flint) ................... 24.87
100.00%
For white, add 0.71% tin oxide; for green,
add 0.88% Mason stain 6201; and for iron
blue, add 1.59% Mason stain 6391. Yields a
smooth transparent glaze that is great over
carved or incised decoration on porcelain.

I hope this helps!

My Celadon pots in this set use this recipe, though I used a different #
green mason stain than she does:

<http://www.flickr.com/invite/history/guests/?open=72157603617817722#gp_72157603617817722 >
http://www.flickr.com/gp/85126264@N00/c3Me2S

Good Luck!

Denise Joyal

On Jan 15, 2008 3:19 AM, ClayCraft group < nor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> ClayCraft
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft?hl=en
>
> Clay...@googlegroups.com
>
> Today's topics:
>
> * *ClayCraft* Re: Rise of the Creative Class - 1 messages, 1 aut hor
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/5542530b16d16273?hl=en
> * Tom Coleman celadon glaze - 2 messages, 2 authors
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/88dc08c65abbfbd5?hl=en
> * *ClayCraft* Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon - 2 messages, 2 authors
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/74a13370cc76df6c?hl=en
>
>
> ==============================================================================
> TOPIC: *ClayCraft* Re: Rise of the Creative Class
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/5542530b16d16273?hl=en
>
> ==============================================================================
>
> == 1 of 1 ==
> Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:19 pm
> From: hambone
>
>
> James & Sherron: I think the Einstein quote is very succinct, and very
> well outlines the challenges we face in our current endeavors. I think
> it is a moral dilemma which we should keep foremost in our minds. It
> is also worth remembering that material existence is only a perception
> we entertain and limiting ourselves to materialistic solutions will
> always most certainly fail.
>
> As Rumi says --
> "There is another world inside this one --
> no words can describe it.
> There is a living, but no fear of death;
> There is S pring, but never a turn to Autumn.
> There are legends and stories
> coming from the walls and ceilings.
> Even the rocks and trees recite poetry."
>
> This is partly why some people will pay $10 for a $1 item at Whole
> Foods store because they believe that they some how participate in
> this alternative world. They might be correct in many ways. It is hard
> to understand why creative people will sometimes spend all they have
> to secure their world - it is like the parable of the parable of great
> price; sell all, buy the field. Economic "realities" are driven almost
> entirely by emotions and perceptions -- and those who are richer in
> this realm are richer indeed.
> H A M B O N E ;-)
>
>
>
> On Jan 10, 9:14 pm, "James and Sherron Bowen"
> <jbowe...@prairienetworks.com> wrote:
> > " ..an economy strong enough, to allow educated people make pottery for a
> > living"
> >
> > That could come to a screeching halt.
> > JB
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly
> because
> > of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological
> > development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation
> of
> > larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of
> > these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power
> of
> > which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized
> > political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies
> are
> > selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwis e influenced
> by
> > private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the
> electorate
> > from the legislature.
> > Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================================================
> TOPIC: Tom Coleman celadon glaze
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/88dc08c65abbfbd5?hl=en
>
> ==============================================================================
>
> == 1 of 2 ==
> Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 7:19 pm
> From: "C.C. Bookout"
>
>
>
> I have a book by Tom Coleman called Glazes I use. It has a section
> of celadon glazes, but none is called a blue grreen. Actually looking
> at it again I found one with a variation ca lled blue/green. It is
> Elaine's Celadon Base:
>
>
> F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
> Barium Carb 13.63
> Whiting 4.51
> Silica 31.12
> EPK 2.79
> Tin Ox 1.09
> Zinc Ox &nbs p; 0.54
> Fireplace ash 2.15
> Ferro Frit 0.54
> ____
> 100.00
>
> For Blue Green add:
>
> Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
> Chrome Ox 0.1%
> Co balt Carbonate 0,054%
>
> He writes: This is a very clear celadon base. The best for carving.
> It has a smooth and shiny surface but does not tend to shift if
> overfired.. Works best on porcelain. Cone 8-10 reduction.
>
> I hope this helps. I will add a disclaimer that I have not
> personally used this formula, but his receipes from this book are
> generally reliable.
>
> C.C. Happy potting.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> == 2 of 2 ==
> Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:19 pm
> From: Rick Mahaffey
>
>
> The way I learned it if there is any colorant other than iron in it then
> it
> is no longer a celadon. But then I was trained as a potter not a painter.
> Blue celadons have come from glazes with low iron conte nt (Less than 1/2%
> and little or no taitanum in the glaze) It also helps if the glaze does
> not
> re-oxidize on the surface during cooling. (Most early Chinese celadons
> were
> fired in saggars which may hinder the re-oxidation of the glaze.
> (Oxidized
> iron is yellow the underlying celadon is blue : Yellow + blue = Green).
>
> Your Celadon may vary,
> Rick Mahaffey
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/14/08 7:19 PM, "C.C. Bookout" <clay...@optonline.net > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I have a book by Tom Coleman called Glazes I use. It has a section
> > of celadon glazes, but none is called a blue grreen. Actually looking
> > at it again I found one with a variation called blue/green. It is
> > Elaine's Celadon Base:
> >
> >
> &g t; F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
> > Barium Carb 13.63
> > Whiting 4.51
> > Silica 31.12
> > EPK 2.79
> > Tin Ox 1.09
> > Zinc Ox 0.54
> > Fireplace ash 2.15
> > Ferro Frit 0.54
> > ____
> > 100.00
> >
> > For Blue Green add:
> >
> > Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
> > Chrome Ox 0.1%
> > Cobalt Car bonate 0,054%
> >
> > He writes: This is a very clear celadon base. The best for carving.
> > It has a smooth and shiny surface but does not tend to shift if
> > overfired.. Works best on porcelain. Cone 8-10 reduction.
> >
> > I hope this helps. I will add a disclaimer that I have not
> > personally used this formula, but his receipes from this book are
> > generally reliable.
> >
> > C.C. Happy potting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================================================
> TOPIC: *ClayCraft* Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/74a13370cc76df6c?hl=en
>
> ==============================================================================
>
> == 1 of 2 ==
> Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:21 pm
> From: Jeff Forster
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I appreciate you looking. I will runs some tests on this and see how it
> turns out.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JF
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: jbow...@prairienetworks.com
> > To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: *ClayCraft* Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon
> > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:11:07 -0700
> >
> >
> > In "glazes I Use" by Tom Coleman there are seven Celadons
> & gt; None are named Blue/Green.
> >
> > There is Elaine's Celadon Base
> >
> > F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
> > Barium Carbonate 13.63
> > Whiting 4.51
> > Silica 31.12
> > EPK 2.79
> > Tin Oxide 1.07
> > Zinc Oxide 0.54
> > Fireplace Ash 2.15
> > Ferro Frit 0.54
> > _____
> > & nbsp; 100
> >
> > For Blue Green add
> > Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
> > Chrome Oxide .1%
> > Cobalt Carbonate .054%
> > If it doesn't add up call Tom Coleman
> > JB
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Forster"
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:29 PM
> > Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story o f Stuff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I don't know why I didn't think of asking here before. I am working
> at
> > the Armory Art Center and Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon was a studio
> glaze in
> > the past. The bucket is almost empty and we can not find the recipe.
> If
> > anyone has it and could send it my way it would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Jeff Forster
> > ________________________________
> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:22:58 -0600
> >> From: craigl...@gmail.com
> >> To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 8, 2008 5:10 PM, sam bucus
> > ____ _____________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch "Cause Effect," a show about real people making a real difference.
> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause
>
>
>
>
> == 2 of 2 ==
> Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:40 pm
> From: "James and Sherron Bowen"
>
>
> Like I said there are six more Celadons in Coleman's book.
> My own preference is for Blue cela dons but that takes a really clean
> porcelain and G-200 spar at the least. Craig Martell does blues really
> well.
> JB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Forster" <earth...@hotmail.com>
> To: <clay...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:21 PM
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon
>
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I appreciate you looking. I will runs some tests on this and see how it
> turns out.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JF
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: jbow...@prairienetworks.com
> > To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: *ClayCraft* Coleman 's Blue/Green Celadon
> > Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:11:07 -0700
> >
> >
> > In "glazes I Use" by Tom Coleman there are seven Celadons
> > None are named Blue/Green.
> >
> > There is Elaine's Celadon Base
> >
> > F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
> > Barium Carbonate 13.63
> > Whiting 4.51
> > Silica 31.12
> > EPK & nbsp; 2.79
> > Tin Oxide 1.07
> > Zinc Oxide 0.54
> > Fireplace Ash 2.15
> > Ferro Frit 0.54
> > &nb sp; _____
> > 100
> >
> > For Blue Green add
> > Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
> > Chrome Oxide .1%
> > Cobalt Carbonate .054%
> > If it doesn't add up call Tom Coleman
> > JB
> >
> >
> > ---- - Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Forster"
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:29 PM
> > Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I don't know why I didn't think of asking here before. I am working
> at
> > the Armory Art Center and Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon was a studio
> glaze
> > in
> > the past. The bucket is almost empty and we can not find the recipe.
> If
> > anyone has it and could send it my way it would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Jeff Forster
> > ________________________________
> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:22:58 -0600
> >> From: craigl...@gmail.com
> >> To: ClayCraft@googlegroups. com
> >> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 8, 2008 5:10 PM, sam bucus
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch "Cause Effect," a show about real people making a real difference.
> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Denise O'Connell Joyal
"The firing is the climax of the potter's labor." Bernard Leach

==============================================================================
TOPIC: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/74a13370cc76df6c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 2:39 pm
From: hambone

Jeff: Is that one of the glazes that Tom markets by the gallon? I am
wondering how the profit margin and distribution works on an
arrangement like that anyhow.

WikiGlazes by ClayCraft? Free Glaze Society?
H A M B O N E

On Jan 13, 3:29 pm, Jeff Forster <earth_c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I don't know why I didn't think of asking here before. I am working at the Armory Art Center and Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon was a studio glaze in the past. The bucket

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 7:34 pm
From: Jeff Forster

Hi Hambone,

I am not sure if the glaze here was bought by the gallon or not being that I got here in August and this is the first time we have had to re fill it. I guess I just assumed it was made from scratch like the rest of them, and think still that it probably was. I can't imagine a non-profit organization spending the money to purchase pre-made glazes outside of under glazes. I will inquire about that though.

Cheers,

Jeff
----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:39:13 -0800
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
> From: kansas...@gmail.com
> To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> Jeff: Is that one of the glazes that Tom markets by the gallon? I am
> wondering how the profit margin and distribution works on an
> arrangement like that anyhow.
>
> WikiGlazes by ClayCraft? Free Glaze Society?
> H A M B O N E
>
> On Jan 13, 3:29 pm, Jeff Forster wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I don't know why I didn't think of asking here before. I am working at the Armory Art Center and Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon was a studio glaze in the past. The bucket
> >

______________________________________________ ___________________
Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista(R) + Windows Live(tm).
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 7:43 pm
From: Jeff Forster

Hi JB,

We have several Celadons that are used as studio glazes here, including a blue and jade. I tried two other B/G recipes but they turned out slightly different then Colemans and the students don't like them as much. Hopefully the recipe I got from you all will make them all smiley again.

Peace,

JF
----------------------------------------
> From: jbow...@prairienetworks.com
> To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:40:27 -0700
>
>
> Like I said there are six more Celadons in Coleman's book.
> My own preference is for Blue celadons but that takes a really clean
> porcelain and G-200 spar at the least. Craig Martell does blues really well.
> JB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Forster"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:21 PM
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon
>
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I appreciate you looking. I will runs some tests on this and see how it
> turns out.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JF
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: jbow...@prairienetworks.com
>> To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: *ClayCraft* Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon
>> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:11:07 -0700
>>
>>
>> In "glazes I Use" by Tom Coleman there are seven Celadons
>> None are named Blue/Green.
>>
>> There is Elaine's Celadon Base
>>
>> F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
>> Barium Carbonate 13.63
>> Whiting 4.51
>> Silica &n bsp; 31.12
>> EPK 2.79
>> Tin Oxide 1.07
>> Zinc Oxide 0.54
>> Fireplace Ash 2.15
>> Ferro Frit 0.54
>> _____
>> 100
>>
>> For Blue Green add
>> Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
>> Chrome Oxide .1%
>> Cobalt Carbonate .054%
>> If it does n't add up call Tom Coleman
>> JB
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff Forster"
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:29 PM
>> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I don't know why I didn't think of asking here before. I am working at
>> the Armory Art Center and Coleman's Blue/Green Celadon was a studio glaze
>> in
>> the past. The bucket is almost empty and we can not find the recipe. If
>> anyone has it and could send it my way it would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Jeff Forster
>> ________________________________
>>> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:22:58 -0600
>>> From: craigl...@gmail.com
>>> To: Clay...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: The Story of Stuff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 8, 2008 5:10 PM, sam bucus
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch "Cause Effect," a show about real people making a real difference.
> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause
>
>
>
>
>
>
> &g t;

_________________________________________________________________
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: *ClayCraft* Tom Coleman celadon glaze
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft/browse_thread/thread/88dc08c65abbfbd5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 3:17 pm
From: hambone

It's not to my way of thinking either for a few reasons. In Nigel
Wood's work, "Chin ese Glazes", the term "celadon" comes from the west
and was used to refer to high fire Chinese green glazes. In China they
are called.. green. Lord Celadon was a figure clad in Green in a
popular Western play of the day. Korea came forth with the Koryu iron
blue celadons. The ingredients are as follows: white clay (iron free),
porcelain stone (glaze stone), and calcined limestone (stone ash),
there is a trace of wood ash in the stone ash normally, but maybe the
Koreans had an other method. Tichane in "Those Celadon Blues"
identifies the best iron content for blue to be 0.8 to 1.2 % (?) ,
best with English kaolin, calcium as the major alkali, buck spar or
kona spar; phosphate, fluoride and lime giving the best opalesence.
And a very slow cool down. Whether any of this works or not, I don't
know. I got greenish blue with Rhode's #20 (85 cornwall, 15 whiting)
over Miller porcelain, wood fired, bluish grey over the B-Mix, but I
would never c ompare these results to jade - the glaze should be
layered like pearl and very viscous, in fact Tichane admits using
feldspar is just our way of doing it in the west. The silica content
is very high in old celadons in general. The temperature was not as
high and the firing curve slower and longer. Limestone glazes are
fairly straightfoward, and I would hesitate to call a glaze low in
lime a "celadon" if we are attempting to make a connection to the
celadons of old. But if the result are similar, "celadon" might still
be the best description given with disclaimers
H A M M Y

On Jan 15, 12:19 am, Rick Mahaffey < rickmahaf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> The way I learned it if there is any colorant other than iron in it then it
> is no longer a celadon. But then I was trained as a potter not a painter.
> Blue celadons have come from glazes with low iron content (Less than 1/2 %
> and little or no taitanum in the glaze) It also helps if the glaze does not
> re-oxidize on the surface during cooling. (Most early Chinese celadons were
> fired in saggars which may hinder the re-oxidation of the glaze. (Oxidized
> iron is yellow the underlying celadon is blue : Yellow + blue = Green).
>
> Your Celadon may vary,
> Rick Mahaffey
>
> On 1/14/08 7:19 PM, "C.C. Bookout" < clayl...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a book by Tom Coleman called Glazes I use. It has a section
> > of celadon glazes, but none is called a blue grreen. Actually looking
> > at it again I found one with a variation called blue/green. It is
> > Elaine's Celadon Base:
>
> > F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
> > Barium Carb & nbsp; 13.63
> > Whiting 4.51
> > Silica 31.12
> > EPK 2.79
> > Tin Ox 1.09
> > Zinc Ox 0.54
> > Fireplace ash 2.15
> > Ferro Frit 0.54
> > ____
> > 100.00
>
> > For Blue Green add:
>
> > Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
> > Chrome Ox 0.1%
> > Cobalt Carbonate 0,054%
>
> > He writ es: This is a very clear celadon base. The best for carving.
> > It has a smooth and shiny surface but does not tend to shift if
> > overfired.. Works best on porcelain. Cone 8-10 reduction.
>
> > I hope this helps. I will add a disclaimer that I have not
> > personally used this formula, but his receipes from this book are
> > generally reliable.
>
> > C.C. Happy potting.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 4:49 pm
From: Lee

On Jan 16, 2008 8:17 AM, hambone < kansas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not to my way of thinking either for a few reasons. In Nigel
> Wood's work, "Chinese Glazes", the term "celadon"

Jus' call it 'Merican Celadon.

Shinos originally had no soda ash but folks call carbon trap glazes Shinos.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 15 2008 9:28 pm
From: Rick Mahaffey

Hammy, I have heard this about this character in a play.......I seem to
recall that the glaze was named that prior to the play and the character was
named after the glaze. I don't remember the origin of the celadon name but
I am sure that it is not the character in the play. I think the origin is
based on the name of a ruler in the orient or what we now call the middle
east.

In china it is actually called bean green glaze in some area. It m atters
not where the name came from anyway. If it is the name for a green glaze
where the color comes from iron in reduction. To use the name for a glaze
colored with a mason stain then simply makes communication all the more
difficult.

Tichane discussed the minuet bubbles in the glaze as being just below the
threshold of human perception. It is those bubbles that we can sense are
there but can not perceive that gives the best Celadon glazes their mystery.
This talk was at one of the NCECAs that I attended. ( the panel fit the Ken
Stevens rule of panel discussions at NCECA: the lower the number of
speakers the better the discussion will be, with one being the optimum
number - I have found this to almost always be true.)

I know Lee says call it Merican celadon but I disagree with that just as I
disagree with the soda ash glazes being called Shino glazes. They are
something else. I would say if you u se Mason stain, or chrome and cobalt to
achieve the color of a celadon glaze you have a celadon colored glaze which
is not the same thing as a celadon glaze.

I have been working in clay since I took my first class in 1969 and studying
since then. It seems these days to many "Art School" are teaching taking
the easy way to do something and not spending enough time teaching the
history and traditional ways that things have been done. I noticed this in
the '80s and '90s when I was doing the ACC craft fairs............

Rick

On 1/15/08 3:17 PM, "hambone" <kansas...@gmail.com > wrote:

>
> It's not to my way of thinking either for a few reasons. In Nigel
> Wood's work, "Chinese Glazes", the term "celadon" comes from the west
> and was used to refer to high fire Chinese green glazes. In China they
> are called.. green. Lord Celadon was a figure clad in Green in a
> popular Western play of the day. Korea came forth with the Koryu iron
> blue celadons. The ingredients are as follows: white clay (iron free),
> porcelain stone (glaze stone), and calcined limestone (stone ash),
> there is a trace of wood ash in the stone ash normally, but maybe the
> Koreans had an other method. Tichane in "Those Celadon Blues"
> identifies the best iron content for blue to be 0.8 to 1.2 % (?) ,
> best with English kaolin, calcium as the major alkali, buck spar or
> kona spar; phosphate, fluoride and lime giving the best opalesence.
> And a very slow cool down. Whether any of this works or not, I don't
> know. I got greenish blue with Rhode's #20 (85 cornwall, 15 whiting)
> over Miller porcelain, wood fired, bluish grey over the B-Mix, but I
> would never compare these results to jade - the glaze should be
> layered like pearl and very viscous, in fact Tichane admits using
> feldspar is just our way of doing it in the west. The silica content
> is very high in old celadons in general. The temperature was not as
> high and the firing curve slower and longer. Limestone glazes are
> fairly straightfoward, and I would hesitate to call a glaze low in
> lime a "celadon" if we are attempting to make a connection to the
> celadons of old. But if the result are similar, "celadon" might still
> be the best description given with disclaimers
> H A M M Y
>
> On Jan 15, 12:19 am, Rick Mahaffey <rickmahaf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> The way I learned it if there is any colorant other than iron in it then it
>> is no longer a celadon. But then I was trained as a potter not a painter.
>> Blue celadons have come from glazes with low iron content (Less than 1/2%
>> and little or no taitan um in the glaze) It also helps if the glaze does not
>> re-oxidize on the surface during cooling. (Most early Chinese celadons were
>> fired in saggars which may hinder the re-oxidation of the glaze. (Oxidized
>> iron is yellow the underlying celadon is blue : Yellow + blue = Green).
>>
>> Your Celadon may vary,
>> Rick Mahaffey
>>
>> On 1/14/08 7:19 PM, "C.C. Bookout" <clayl...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have a book by Tom Coleman called Glazes I use. It has a section
>>> of celadon glazes, but none is called a blue grreen. Actually looking
>>> at it again I found one with a variation called blue/green. It is
>>> Elaine's Celadon Base:
>>
>>> F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
>>> Barium Carb 13.63
>>> Whiting 4.51
>>> Silica 31.12
>>> EPK 2.79
>>> Tin Ox 1.09
>>> Zinc Ox 0.54
>>> Fireplace ash &nbs p; 2.15
>>> Ferro Frit 0.54
>>> ____
>>> 100.00
>>
>>> For Blue Green add:
>>
>>> Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
>>> Chrome Ox 0.1%
>>> Cobalt Carbonate &nbs p; 0,054%
>>
>>> He writes: This is a very clear celadon base. The best for carving.
>>> It has a smooth and shiny surface but does not tend to shift if
>>> overfired.. Works best on porcelain. Cone 8-10 reduction.
>>
>>> I hope this helps. I will add a disclaimer that I have not
>>> personally used this formula, but his receipes from this book are
>>> generally reliable.
>>
>>> C.C. Happy potting.
> >

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James and Sherron Bowen

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Jan 16, 2008, 1:07:49 PM1/16/08

to Clay...@googlegroups.com

It's always been my understanding that the color of celadons is mostly dependent on the amount of titanium in the clay body and glaze materials and the amount of potassium in the feldspar. Lower titanium and more potassium will result in blues or at the very least more blue than green.

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