Re: *ClayCraft* Digest for claycraft - 9 messages in 2 topics

[Wes Rolley]

clay...@googlegroups.com wrote:

  bill geisinger <geis...@deanza.edu> Nov 15 05:31PM -0800

 
Hey Hank, I like the presentation! Any chance we could see photos of the
natsume also?
 
bill in sebastopol

Bill or Hank or Mike or anyone...

I would really be interested in the derivation of the terms natsume in Nihongo.  My first associations are with the author, Natsume Soseki, most of whose books I have read in translation.

Then, since joining the California Rare Fruit Growers, I have planted a jujube tree.  That is also called a Chinese Date tree.  The Japanese name is "natsume". 

I'll try to past in the Kanji / hiragana characters. 棗 [なつめ] {noun}
(might not view with your browser.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaki the term in Japanese tea ware actually derives from the name of the fruit and uses the same kanji.  There must be an interesting history here.

I don't have a good photo of my natsume.  Ate most of them.

-- 
"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth" Roberto Clemente

Wes Rolley
17211 Quail Court, Morgan Hill, CA 95037
http://www.refpub.com/ -- Tel: 408.778.3024

[Hank Murrow]

>>
>> Hey Hank, I like the presentation! Any chance we could see photos
>> of the
>> natsume also?

> Bill or Hank or Mike or anyone...
>
> I would really be interested in the derivation of the terms natsume
> in Nihongo.

Dear Wes;

My Tea sensei referred to Natsume as lacquered tea containers for
informal tea. These differed from chaire in the degree of formality
and size, chaire being half the size of natsume.

I have appropriated the term for my containers because they resemble
the natsume I have seen at the Freer Gallery and also at many tea
collectors' homes. Mine, however, are made of clay, have porcelain
lids, and various knobs, from nephrite to porcelain. mine are
generally gay in relation to the more sober chawan........ a nice
contrast and conversation point with one's guest(s).

Hope my appropriation does not cause unhappiness,

Cheers, Hank

[bill geisinger]

Nice thinking Hank, It did cause me to think about the conversation over tea when I saw the birds and the bead. I wonder if someone is rolling over in their grave and celebrating a sweet change!! I have known several tea people who would like the variation from the traditional.

bill in sebastopol

--
Photo log at:  http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com

[rickma...@comcast.net]

Had Jujube tea in Korea made a bit like a latte with the contents steamed till a frothy texture was achieved.  Heavenly!!!

 

Rick

--

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 16, 2009, at 11:12 AM, bill geisinger wrote:

> Nice thinking Hank, It did cause me to think about the conversation
> over tea when I saw the birds and the bead. I wonder if someone is
> rolling over in their grave and celebrating a sweet change!! I have
> known several tea people who would like the variation from the
> traditional.

Dear Bill;

I find that on this side of the Pond, a little levity greatly
improves the Tea experience! Some of our more ambitious southern-
region potters have begun working on the American Whiskey Ceremony.
YMMV! I do a version of this I call the American Sake Ceremony.......
perhaps a bit more restrained than the southern version.

Let's get together for Tea(or sake) one day,

Hank

[rickma...@comcast.net]

Fred Olsen, former personal apprentice to Tomimoto Kenkichi make scotch cups not tea bowls, he has been making them for a few decades and thus predates the American wiskey ceremony folks.......

I am luck enough to have one.  :-)

 

YCMV (Your chawan may vary)

 

Rick

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Murrow" <hmu...@efn.org>
To: clay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 11:45:45 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Digest for claycraft - 9 messages in 2 topics

On Nov 16, 2009, at 11:12 AM, bill geisinger wrote: > Nice thinking Hank, It did cause me to think about the conversation > over tea when I saw the birds and the bead. I wonder if someone is > rolling over in their grave and celebrating a sweet change!! I have > known several tea people who would like the variation from the > traditional. Dear Bill; I find that on this side of the Pond, a little levity greatly improves the Tea experience! Some of our more ambitious southern- region potters have begun working on the American Whiskey Ceremony. YMMV! I do a version of this I call the American Sake Ceremony....... perhaps a bit more restrained than the southern version. Let's get together for Tea(or sake) one day, Hank -- Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com
My guinomi and John Dix's katakuchi...... freeze containers first, then serve cold....... summer melons!

[image/jpeg:S.jpg]

[bill geisinger]

Sounds good to me! I up for tea, sake or whiskey! But not together. Next time I'm up or you are down please..... Let's get the guinomi hopping!

bill

Hank

--
Photo log at:  http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com

[Mike]

I'm sure someone with more tea knowledge than me can elaborate, but from a functional standpoint, natsume, although seen in various forms, all seem to be straight sided (meaning no shoulder or gallery, not strictly vertical) in order to allow the scoop easy access, and to allow for scooping from a particular place so as not to disturb the little mountain of tea dust (the reason for this escapes me so far, but my tea teacher has said that putting the tea in the natsume and scooping it in an aesthetic manner are arts unto themselves.) Anyway, natsume are for usucha and one uses the same natsume from one to many times for as many bowls of tea, with tea left over in the natsume more often than not.

Chaire, on the other hand, being used for koicha have just the amount of tea for the one bowl being prepared for the guests to share. One or two scoops are taken out, then the whole chaire is upended and dumped into the teabowl (albeit in a more graceful fashion than I describe). Apparently the shoulder of the chaire facilitates the dumping of the tea into the bowl. Perhaps it allows the tea to come out little by little so as not to engulf the tearoom in a green haze.

Anyway, from the functional standpoint, I would call Hank's vessels chaire, rather than natsume. Hank, I got the idea from one of  your posts (don't remember when) that you preferred the word natsume because it seemed a bit less serious and weighty than using chaire and all the baggage that comes along with it. If that's the only reason, I would say no need to worry and just say chaire. There is great variation and room for movement even in this category. Many chaire, especially contemporary are quite playful, as are the 'found' chaire with lids added later.

>>These differed from chaire in the degree of formality  
and size, chaire being half the size of natsume.<<

Hank, you wouldn't believe some of the chaire I've seen since starting to get around to some of the more 'well known' potter's places. The first that surprised me were Takatori ware in a museum in Koishiwara. Huge! 6 inches tall. These were old ones, a few hundred years. Also, at the Old Karatsu exhibit last year at the Arita museum, I was astounded at the size of the chaire that I'd seen previously only in catalogs. I guess I never really paid attention to the photo captions with measurements, but these things were about twice the volume I'd imagined. Up to then, I guess I'd just handled contemporary standard katatsuki chaire, which are the sort of shape everyone thinks of when they think of chaire. Lately, a friend of mine bought a chaire from Okamoto Sakurei which was 'marutsubo gata'(round jar?)Very round, the size of an orange, with a little 3cm neck coming off the top. Sounds like larger chaire have fallen out of style as tea gatherings get smaller, but there is plenty of variation and precedent for playful chaire of varying sizes.

Mike

Mike
in Taku, Japan

karatsupots.com
karatsupots.blogspot.com
karatsupots-workshop.blogspot.com/

Hank Murrow さんは書きました:

[Tatsuo Tomeoka]

I agree with all that Mike said here. One of the reasons for the natsume shape is also related to the name..

>Bill or Hank or Mike or anyone...
>I would really be interested in the derivation of the terms natsume 
in Nihongo.
 

Natsume mean "jujube," and the name is derived from the shape of the fruit. They are most often lacquered wood, but I have also seen unlacquered wood, such as paulownia, natsume. Typically, the lid is the same material as the body. They can certainly be clay as well. Note also that neither natsume or chaire are intended as tea storage vessels, just for the use of serving matcha on the same day. As Mike mentioned, the sifting and "mounding" of matcha in the natsume is a specific process that is part of the tea ceremony preparation. As much care can be taken with this as with preparing a bowl of tea. This is the same for all aspects of chado... to be in the moment every moment.
Tatsuo
 
Tatsuo Tomeoka
Charaku Fine Japanese Tea www.charaku-tea.com
WaSabiDou Antiques & Folk Crafts www.mingei-wasabidou.com
 

---

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:54:48 +0900
From: mi...@karatsupots.com
To: clay...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Digest for claycraft - 9 messages in 2 topics

--
Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com

---

Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 16, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Mike wrote:

I'm sure someone with more tea knowledge than me can elaborate, but from a functional standpoint, natsume, although seen in various forms, all seem to be straight sided (meaning no shoulder or gallery, not strictly vertical) in order to allow the scoop easy access, and to allow for scooping from a particular place so as not to disturb the little mountain of tea dust (the reason for this escapes me so far, but my tea teacher has said that putting the tea in the natsume and scooping it in an aesthetic manner are arts unto themselves.)

Some of the natsume I saw in the Freer/Sackler were ceramic and not straight-sided, but my experience of them in limited. Certainly, what is in the high-end stores is not reliable as to name.

Anyway, natsume are for usucha and one uses the same natsume from one to many times for as many bowls of tea, with tea left over in the natsume more often than not.

I think we were served from both, at Mr. Okamoto's tea hut, the natsume being used for the tin tea servings, while the chaire was used for the thick tea servings.

Chaire, on the other hand, being used for koicha have just the amount of tea for the one bowl being prepared for the guests to share. One or two scoops are taken out, then the whole chaire is upended and dumped into the teabowl (albeit in a more graceful fashion than I describe). Apparently the shoulder of the chaire facilitates the dumping of the tea into the bowl. Perhaps it allows the tea to come out little by little so as not to engulf the tearoom in a green haze.

The models for these chaire, as they came to be called, were the ceramic containers that Chinese medicines were packed in for shipment to Japan. When appropriated for Tea, they were given pretty Ivory lids with added gold foil to make a soft seat on the jar. Nowadays, since ivory is prohibited, a milk-based protein is used to make faux-irory, or wood is turned to make a lid. It is considered important that the lid not make a bright sound as it is replaced on the jar. I can imagine Tea-sensei scrounging through piles of these Chinese medicine bootles looking for one with wabi sabi or equivalent goodness. just like potters do when confronted with much choice of seemingly identical pieces.

Anyway, from the functional standpoint, I would call Hank's vessels chaire, rather than natsume.

Except for the much larger size that my jars have in comparison with chaire.

Hank, I got the idea from one of  your posts (don't remember when) that you preferred the word natsume because it seemed a bit less serious and weighty than using chaire and all the baggage that comes along with it. If that's the only reason, I would say no need to worry and just say chaire. There is great variation and room for movement even in this category. Many chaire, especially contemporary are quite playful, as are the 'found' chaire with lids added later.

I am ambivalent about this now, but really look forward to a discussion with Koichi Okamoto-sensei when he comes again to Eugene. I doubt very much that he would give an opinion from images...... though I may try.

>>These differed from chaire in the degree of formality and size, chaire being half the size of natsume.<<

Hank, you wouldn't believe some of the chaire I've seen since starting to get around to some of the more 'well known' potter's places. The first that surprised me were Takatori ware in a museum in Koishiwara. Huge! 6 inches tall. These were old ones, a few hundred years. Also, at the Old Karatsu exhibit last year at the Arita museum, I was astounded at the size of the chaire that I'd seen previously only in catalogs. I guess I never really paid attention to the photo captions with measurements, but these things were about twice the volume I'd imagined. Up to then, I guess I'd just handled contemporary standard katatsuki chaire, which are the sort of shape everyone thinks of when they think of chaire. Lately, a friend of mine bought a chaire from Okamoto Sakurei which was 'marutsubo gata'(round jar?)Very round, the size of an orange, with a little 3cm neck coming off the top. Sounds like larger chaire have fallen out of style as tea gatherings get smaller, but there is plenty of variation and precedent for playful chaire of varying sizes.

Well, that may be a blessing for the confused potter! We have few around Eugene and even in Portland that are advanced enough to forward an opinion..... Tea-people seem very timid in making their choices, while Tea-sensei hesitate little. not enough of them see work on this side of the Pond. I wish we could all rendez-vous one day in my back yard for some Modified American Outdoor Tea Practice, with host and guest chawan, chaire, etc. Each one try one!

Cheers, Hank, resting more or less comfortably with his choices(but not necessarily their names!)

www.murrow.biz/hank

Images, as usual @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycraft/ to further the discussion.

[Tatsuo Tomeoka]

Hank:
 
Natsume can come in a variety of shapes, and be made from a variety of materials. I've seen ones shaped like gourds, water jars; made from wood, clay, metal, you name it. The main thing is that the name is derived from a "standard" shape that was more or less codified in Rikyu's time. The Rikyu-gata natsume is the shape and style most commonly seen today; that of the straight-sided, but slightly tapered at the bottom, plain black lacquered, with lidded top that starts about 2/3 of the way up the body. The shape resembles the jujube fruit, hence the name. Technically, usucha caddies that don't have this shape can be called something else (usucha-ki) but it is more common than not to call all usucha caddies "natsume" because this is the overwhelmingly most common style.
 
No one knows the exact origins, but most say that the utensil itself devloped from Chinese oil or medicine jars imported to Japan up to the 15-16th century. We do know that during the mid-late 15th century, a Kyoto lacquerer named Haneda Goro developed the style of natsume chosen to become standard by Rikyu. It is said that at that time, it was used for both thin & thick tea. 
 
Although I quote a lot of history here that may put some folks to sleep, an important part of this discussion is the reasons that implements utilized by Rikyu were chosen. It was for both functional and spiritual reasons, and not necessarily limited by culture, material, formality, etc. As Mike put very well, each item has functional reasons for its continued use over many centuries of tea culture. Rikyu and his predecessors were also serious disciples of Zen Buddhism. They chose items used by people they respected and whom they felt had achieved a higher level of awareness. This unique mixture of styles and materials and cultures is what originated the "wabi" aesthetic that comes from tea culture. Part of the wabi aesthetic is "contrast," hence a delicate flower in rough pottery vase, or a crackled & worn ceramic cup on a new black lacquered tray, etc. It's my (humble) opinion that the lacquered tea caddy keeps its place in tea due to the fact that the other usual implements are not so interchangeable material wise; the bowl is clay, the whisk & scoop are bamboo. This creates the needed contrast and balance of the setting. When a ceramic chaire is used, this is also balanced out by the cloth bag.
 
Rikyu was both an innovator and a traditionalist. I think many people who contribute to this site are the same. Both realms are necessary for growth, and I very much enjoy reading the opinions posted here.    

Hank-Another Japanese vocabulary point. The photo you posted of the sake/scotch decanter is really beautiful! Wonderful work! However, the term "katakuchi" generally refers to a spouted bowl. Handled decanters such as this are usually called "reishuuki" (rei-cold, shuu-alcohol, ki-vessel.)
 
Tatsuo
P.S. many natsume are today made from ...aaargh...plastic!

 
Tatsuo Tomeoka
Charaku Fine Japanese Tea www.charaku-tea.com
WaSabiDou Antiques & Folk Crafts www.mingei-wasabidou.com
  

---

From: hmu...@efn.org

Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* Digest for claycraft - 9 messages in 2 topics

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:59:21 -0800
To: clay...@googlegroups.com

--
Photo log at: http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
To unsubscribe send email to Claycraft-...@googlegroups.com

---

Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 17, 2009, at 7:36 AM, Tatsuo Tomeoka wrote:

Hank:
 
Natsume can come in a variety of shapes, and be made from a variety of materials. I've seen ones shaped like gourds, water jars; made from wood, clay, metal, you name it. The main thing is that the name is derived from a "standard" shape that was more or less codified in Rikyu's time. The Rikyu-gata natsume is the shape and style most commonly seen today; that of the straight-sided, but slightly tapered at the bottom, plain black lacquered, with lidded top that starts about 2/3 of the way up the body. The shape resembles the jujube fruit, hence the name. Technically, usucha caddies that don't have this shape can be called something else (usucha-ki) but it is more common than not to call all usucha caddies "natsume" because this is the overwhelmingly most common style. 

I agree with you about the prevalence of the Jujube style...... it is everywhere and in several materials including the now prevalent plastic. Amen to your Ugh! One of the most beautiful resides in the collection of the Freer, a very thin textured clay slab folded like paper to form the jujube shape, glazed with a mustard yellow glaze, and fitted with a wooden lid. the bottom is folded just like a present is when wrapped with paper!

 
No one knows the exact origins, but most say that the utensil(teajar) itself devloped from Chinese oil or medicine jars imported to Japan up to the 15-16th century.

I have examined all the Chinese medicine bottle types in the Freer/Sackler, Boston Museum of Fine Art, the Peabody-Essex Museum, and the Seattle Art Museums to see what I could learn about the form and its usage in Tea. What I have seen is that almost all have a tenmoku-style iron glaze which sometimes goes to khaki, and are often given a dot or splash of wood ash to develop a yellow spot, blush, figure, etc on the shoulder. Imagine rows of craftsmen turning these out by the hundreds and women glazing and 'decorating' them. I see them as the antecedent to our plastic pill bottles. They were probably 'corked' with a wood stopper(and perhaps wax) to preserve/protect the contents.

I tested my hypothesis of the wood ash decoration when I returned home from one of my trips to the Freer, and I dotted a tenmoku glazed yunomi with wood ash and the fired result can be seen now @  http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycraft/

We do know that during the mid-late 15th century, a Kyoto lacquerer named Haneda Goro developed the style of natsume chosen to become standard by Rikyu. It is said that at that time, it was used for both 

thin & thick tea. 
 
An important part of this discussion is the reasons that implements utilized by Rikyu were chosen. It was for both functional and spiritual reasons, and not necessarily limited by culture, material, formality, etc. Part of the wabi aesthetic is "contrast," hence a delicate flower in rough pottery vase, or a crackled & worn ceramic cup on a new black lacquered tray, etc. It's my (humble) opinion that the lacquered tea caddy keeps its place in tea due to the fact that the other usual implements are not so interchangeable material wise; the bowl is clay, the whisk & scoop are bamboo. This creates the needed contrast and balance of the setting. When a ceramic chaire is used, this is also balanced out by the cloth bag. 

 
Rikyu was both an innovator and a traditionalist. I think many people who contribute to this site are the same. Both realms are necessary for growth, and I very much enjoy reading the opinions posted here.  

Good point, Tatsuo!  And Mike! Perhaps I can feel much less constrained now to continue my 'wayward' path towards Tea. 

  
Hank-Another Japanese vocabulary point. The photo you posted of the sake/scotch decanter is really beautiful! Wonderful work! However, the term "katakuchi" generally refers to a spouted bowl. Handled decanters such as this are usually called "reishuuki" (rei-cold, shuu-alcohol, ki-vessel.) 

Tatsuo; Could you tell me which page that photo is on? I can't find the pic!

Cheers to all!  Hank

[bill geisinger]

Hank two simple things you referred to 1. yellow copper glaze? I have only seen your piece with a yellow copper. Interesting can you elaborate? Maybe privately since I'm kind of not knowing about this. 2. I think Tatsuo is referring to your John Dix's reishuuki on the photo page

bill in sebastopol

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 17, 2009, at 9:34 AM, bill geisinger wrote:

Hank two simple things you referred to 1. yellow copper glaze? I have only seen your piece with a yellow copper. Interesting can you elaborate?

Dear Bill;

Hank's Copper Yellow is published in Ian Currie's book, "Revealing Glazes", but I can provide a recipe for you. It uses copper carbonate and is very sensitive to both body & thickness........ so challenging! 

2. I think Tatsuo is referring to your John Dix's reishuuki on the photo page

But in the photo what John called a Katakuchi does have a spout and a bail-type handle. I have one by Mike Martino that just has the spout. They are excellent for pouring cold sake. I keep all implements in the freezer until my guests arrive, and the scent of summer melons wafting from the guinomi is very stimulating to conversation. It is like drinking from a cold hollow rock. Recently had a gathering of four sages to share a bottle of "Amo No To" sake from 2007...... wonderful!

Cheers, Hank

[bill geisinger]

Isn't Tatsuo saying a bowl with a spout and a bail handle is a reishuuki and bowl with a spout is a katakuchi! I'm coming for "Amo No To" soon!

bill

--

[Lee]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM, bill geisinger <geis...@deanza.edu> wrote:
> Isn't Tatsuo saying a bowl with a spout and a bail handle is a reishuuki and
> bowl with a spout is a katakuchi! I'm coming for "Amo No To" soon!

That is how I read it. Here is a katakuchi of mine. I wish I
would have taken a better photo of it before shipping it off:

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs060.snc3/14741_181812237056_550727056_3295184_6442473_n.jpg

--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein

[bill geisinger]

Hey Lee I agree a better photo please. Oh well back to the studio for more maybe they will change for the better! maybe they will stay the same which is nice. How do they do for pouring?

bill in sebastopol

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:14 AM, bill geisinger wrote:

> Isn't Tatsuo saying a bowl with a spout and a bail handle is a
> reishuuki and bowl with a spout is a katakuchi!

Perrhaps he is and I missed it.

> I'm coming for "Amo No To" soon!

Too late. That bottle is history of the most savoury kind, but
another will doubtless make its appearance should you find your way
here.

Cheers, Hank

[Lee]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 2:29 PM, bill geisinger <geis...@deanza.edu> wrote:
> Hey Lee I agree a better photo please. Oh well back to the studio for more
> maybe they will change for the better! maybe they will stay the same which
> is nice. How do they do for pouring?

It went to the Mingeikan, so I will make more in the next firing.
Maybe get some in Craig's next anagama firing.

It pours nicely.

[Des & Jan Howard]

Hank et al
This topic has been one of the most delicious yet.
As soon as you mentioned the melons,
I swear a whiff entered my nostrils.
Des

Hank Murrow wrote:
>> I'm coming for "Amo No To" soon!
>
> Too late. That bottle is history of the most savoury kind, but
> another will doubtless make its appearance should you find your way
> here.

--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850

02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624

[Mike]

>>P.S. many natsume are today made from ...aaargh...plastic!<<

Tatsuo,
This had me laughing pretty good this morning. I just bought a lacquer natsume this last month. My wife had been looking over my shoulder when I was looking at the catalog, and mentioned how cheap they were, some as low as 300 - 400 yen. Imagine her surprise then when a package arrives in the mail with the receipt, and it says the total comes to 5,100 yen. My wife, being and extremely frugal person, asks why I spent so much on a natsume when they had them for 400 yen. I told her that that was the cheapest one I could find.... in wood. She just rolled her eyes.

your fellow plastic hater,

Mike

Mike
in Taku, Japan

karatsupots.com
karatsupots.blogspot.com
karatsupots-workshop.blogspot.com/

Tatsuo Tomeoka さんは書きました:

Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. --

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 17, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Des & Jan Howard wrote:

> Hank et al
> This topic has been one of the most delicious yet.
> As soon as you mentioned the melons,
> I swear a whiff entered my nostrils.

"Time of Remembrance" sake gave us plenty to ponder that
afternoon........

The invitation certainly extends to you, Des & Jan. In fact, I was
sitting down in the restored kitchen of Claude Monet one afternoon,
and I started making up guest lists of parties i wanted to throw
sitting down to that table in that room, surrounded by exquisite
Hokusai and Korin drawings/prints, and being served a meal by one of
Paris' best chefs. A delightful, continuing, speculative joy for
me...... to imagine the fun different groups might have there
together. You are in one of those groups, so if my 'ship comes in'
someday, expect a pair of tickets in the post. Bring a bottle of
"Grange" Shiraz, would you?

Cheers, Hank

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 17, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Mike wrote:

> >>P.S. many natsume are today made from ...aaargh...plastic!<<
>
> Tatsuo,
> This had me laughing pretty good this morning. I just bought a
> lacquer natsume this last month. My wife had been looking over my
> shoulder when I was looking at the catalog, and mentioned how cheap
> they were, some as low as 300 - 400 yen. Imagine her surprise then
> when a package arrives in the mail with the receipt, and it says
> the total comes to 5,100 yen. My wife, being and extremely frugal
> person, asks why I spent so much on a natsume when they had them
> for 400 yen. I told her that that was the cheapest one I could
> find.... in wood. She just rolled her eyes.

OH Boy, have I ever had one of those to put on the shelf alongside
yours. The Story, not the utensil! Thing is..... she always buys
organic, insists on meeting with the butcher, and yet she saves like
Kroesus. Good thing she is the Glaze Queen of Eugene!

Cheers, Hank

[Tatsuo Tomeoka]

Yes Bill. That's the one.
Tatsuo
 

---

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:34:42 -0800
Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* natsume - katakuchi
From: geis...@deanza.edu
To: clay...@googlegroups.com

[Tatsuo Tomeoka]

Mike:
 
-My wife rolls her eyes at me if I spend over 40 yen...on anything!
 
-I should have posted this link before. Here's a standard natsume, wood with black lacquer, on my site. Sorry, the price is lower than yours, even here in the States. I keep the prices on accessories at a minimum in order to provide the tools & education needed for people to prepare and enjoy my tea. Any higher, and I probably wouldn't sell much over here. As you know, even a plain lacquered natsume of high quality can get pretty expensive in Japan. A good Wajima-nuri (lacquerware from Wajima in Ishikawa Prefecture) would probably run a few hundred dollars.
http://www.charaku-tea.com/teaaccessories7.html
 
-Here's a katakuchi image as well. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but usually katakuchi are just spouted bowls. The reishuuki are cold alcohol decanters. Functionally, they can be used any way one likes, but they do have proper Japanese names; i.e. if you put flowers in a gravy boat, you still call it a gravy boat, not a vase. 
http://www.mingei-wasabidou.com/items/820907/item820907store.html#item
 
Another item to add to this confusing list would be yuuzamashi. yuu=hot water, zamashi=noun form of samasu-to cool down. This is basically the shape of a small katakuchi, or a small teapot with top cut off and a lip instead of a proper spout. It is used to cool down water to the correct temperature for tea brewing. Sorry, no photo on hand of this.
 
As mentioned, any use at all is acceptable and encouraged in Japan. I use katakuchi as yuuzamashi and for serving small portions of cooked food. I use my tea cups as yuuzamashi to warm up the cup as the water cools down. I've used reishuuki for flower arrangements. With a frog (kenzan) in the bowl and the handle, it makes for a lovely presentation.
 
Another word on the price of natsume and other tea items. Most of the lower prices utensils used in tea; whisks, scoops; lacquer caddies, trays, etc. are mostly made in China these days. The 1000 whisks you see in Japanese tea ware shops are pretty much all in this category. It's getting so beginning tea practicioners, and not-rich veterans, cannot afford Japanese-made chadogu any more.
 
Tatsuo

 
Tatsuo Tomeoka
Charaku Fine Japanese Tea www.charaku-tea.com
WaSabiDou Antiques & Folk Crafts www.mingei-wasabidou.com
 
 
 
 
 

---

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:36:23 +0900
From: mi...@karatsupots.com
To: clay...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: *ClayCraft* natsume - katakuchi

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.