Mingei, an interesting critique.
Lee Love
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Lee
Actually, the modern studio craftsman in a society with a large, educated middle class, where pottery is no longer a necessity of everyday life, is working with his hands by choice and not necessity. Therefor, he is more enabled to work out of Love that just for profit. It is all a matter of attitude and intention (Kokorozashi.)
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a375.pdf
Yanagi further argued that there was a close connection between
the incentive for profit and the quality of work produced under a capitalist
system of wage labour relations. A craftsman had to feel ' love '
for his work and this was impossible when he made things merely for
sale. ' Love of profit robs a work of its beauty '. Beauty could not,
in his opinion, be born under conditions of wage labour. In the 20th
century people were working because they had to, not because they
wanted to, whereas in the past the opposite had been the case. In the
world of crafts, a master had loved his apprentices and they in turn had
responded by doing their utmost to please their master; consequently
their work had been good. In modern times, however, profit had become
the sole motivation behind work; it was this greed for money that
was destroying crafts, beauty, the world and man's spirit (1955: 128-
133).
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
hambone
get printer cartridge as the PDF flle was too small a type face on the
tiny Mac notebook. I've got about 150 pages of Rob Barnard essays to
read as well:
http://www.rob-barnard.com/essays/
ClayCraft is managable, recent forays into the other group have
overheated the little computer with long hours waiting for posts to
load or unload, as the case may be. Some interesting discussions
lately.
Got pots to make tho. So - crankin' up the hip da hop da hip da hop
H A M
On Apr 15, 8:34 pm, "Lee Love" <toge...@claycraft.org> wrote:
> http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a375.pdf
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> Minneapolis, Minnesota USAhttp://potters.blogspot.com/
Lee
Lee: Well I've got to read this - had to break to go to Best Buy to
get printer cartridge as the PDF flle was too small a type face on the
tiny Mac notebook. I've got about 150 pages of Rob Barnard essays to
read as well:
http://www.rob-barnard.com/essays/
That's interesting Eric. I can read it full sized on windows, but only in tiny type on my palm top. I will see if I can make a copy.
I agree. The other list takes a lot of time. I'll look at Barnard's essays. Thanks!
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
craig edwards
Make good pots
~Craig
http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
Lee
Eric; Thanks for bringing up Bob Barnard. I've long admired his insight... he is worth the read, and can turn a phase like Dylan. Sorry to say that I haven't read the mingei crit. .... I'm a little mingei'd out at present.... thinking about neo gnarly, or post mingei, beyond mingei. whatever.
You know the difference. Gnarly came out of tea ceremony not mingei. After Rikyu introduced raku, folks started making unglazed tea ware, inspired by the dry surafces of the Rikyu's raku.
Actually, mingei isn't restricted to a type of firing, a kind of kiln or a place. But simply work inspired by a place, using local materials, with a focus on process and function.
hambone
is interesting that the author postulates that "Folk Craft" movements
are a post-industrial reaction. This broaden the scope of our
investingation somewhat because as I have said, clay craft was
widespread in England when Leach said there was none. I found an old
book 1880's in KU's library showing schematics of England's old craft
kilns at various schools and craft centers. I am sure that a study of
pre-Leach England would reveal a momentum so described.
My Mom used to talk all the time about the Arts and Crafts Movement
(1950's) in California. What is interesting here, and anyone who
studies autochthonous West Coast culture (in otherwords NOT Hollywood)
will realize that much of California was inaccessable by road well
into the 1930's - it was decidedly rural, and industrialization comes
at a much later date that elsewhere in the country - this places the
mid-fifties renaissance in the arts. Steinbeck, William Everson
(Brother Antonius), Robinson Jeffers all deal with these themes in
literature. Could this be an example of Moeran's hypothesis?
Dad (in his mid-80's) began to recite California College of Arts and
Crafts' Tony Prieto's "1st Rule Of Mud" when I was in Louisville, but
I have had little or no success getting info about Tony Prieto of F.
Carlton Ball online. This is kind of sad since west-coasters make
claims of how important and influental they were. Does anyone know of
print literature? I love to know what Prieto's Rules Of Mud were, and
how he could give Voulkos an MFA (?)
It's funny, Mom always says anyone can be an artist, and that anything
that they make is a priceless work of art. This would place the most
gnarly sub-par ancient Karatsu pot made by an unknown craftsman as
high as Michelangelo's David. Interesting perspective? This is
straight from CCAC courses, from the mid-forties. It's like they took
the Ruskin/Morris/et al., and transplanted it straight into the West
Coast. And while later Voulkos, Price, Arneson, and all them come out
later there was a solid footing in real craft in the beginning.
H A M B O N E
On Apr 19, 8:40 pm, Lee <toge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/20/07, craig edwards <craigledwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Eric; Thanks for bringing up Bob Barnard. I've long admired his insight...
>
> > he is worth the read, and can turn a phase like Dylan. Sorry to say that I
> > haven't read the mingei crit. .... I'm a little mingei'd out at present....
> > thinking about neo gnarly, or post mingei, beyond mingei. whatever.
>
> Craig,
>
> You know the difference. Gnarly came out of tea ceremony not
> mingei. After Rikyu introduced raku, folks started making unglazed tea
> ware, inspired by the dry surafces of the Rikyu's raku.
>
> Actually, mingei isn't restricted to a type of firing, a kind of
> kiln or a place. But simply work inspired by a place, using local materials,
> with a focus on process and function.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japanhttp://potters.blogspot.com/
hambone
knows this one better - who when the budget cupboard was bare at U of
O worked without a salary. He taught metal smith, lapidary, and
enamelling I think. And it was for the love. But craft was kind of
posited as an alternative culture already, not in the medieval mould.
I'm sure Max Nixon is a better example of what Yanagi is alluding to
than for example Shang Dynasty metalsmiths. Nobdy refers to the Shang
Dynasty as a "good" regime but that is where all the best bronzes come
from. I can see where Yanagi is right on the money most of the time,
but rhetoric alone is never correct.
H A M B O N E
On Apr 15, 11:39 pm, Lee <toge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is something I find a little absurd in Yanagi's thinking. (see quote
> below) He imagines that potters in feudal times, because the didn't work
> for wages, worked for "love." They didn't work for wages because in all
> likelihood, all they made belonged to the feudal lord they worked for.
>
> Actually, the modern studio craftsman in a society with a large,
> educated middle class, where pottery is no longer a necessity of everyday
> life, is working with his hands by choice and not necessity. Therefor, he
> is more enabled to work out of Love that just for profit. It is all a
> matter of attitude and intention (Kokorozashi.)
>
> On 4/16/07, Lee Love <toge...@claycraft.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a375.pdf
>
> Yanagi further argued that there was a close connection between
>
> > the incentive for profit and the quality of work produced under a
> > capitalist
> > system of wage labour relations. A craftsman had to feel ' love '
> > for his work and this was impossible when he made things merely for
> > sale. ' Love of profit robs a work of its beauty '. Beauty could not,
> > in his opinion, be born under conditions of wage labour. In the 20th
> > century people were working because they had to, not because they
> > wanted to, whereas in the past the opposite had been the case. In the
> > world of crafts, a master had loved his apprentices and they in turn had
> > responded by doing their utmost to please their master; consequently
> > their work had been good. In modern times, however, profit had become
> > the sole motivation behind work; it was this greed for money that
> > was destroying crafts, beauty, the world and man's spirit (1955: 128-
> > 133).
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japanhttp://potters.blogspot.com/
hambone
Legacy; Continuity and Innovation through Three Generations of Modern
Potters" by Michel L. Conroy, NCECA 2003. I spent good money on this
small book -$45 because I felt it was important to read, all with
functional on the upswing, what NCECA commissioned. She stresses the
influence of particularly Hamada and Leach in the USA. Too true.
Richard L. Wilson gives the keynote essay, which is insightful.
Warren's piece "Leach Remembered" is very nice - the blurb about how
they ate from Ming Dynasty blue on white every night was touching,
Leach finally noting that it might be difficult to replace an item if
it broke causing them to switch to Kawai's Pigskin Tenmokku dinner set
and how nice food looks on a black dish. In the long run, looking only
at Japan and the USA, and not adequately covering St. Ives
"apprentices" and the world-wide diaspora throughout the former
British Empire is a huge oversight. The book winds down by continually
returning to MacKenzie, who to my knowledge never ran a self-
sustaining profitable pottery. A better example of the true Mingei
"idea" is the North Carolina potters who never heard the word "Mingei"
and to support themselves just making things. The emphasis was on
Mingei as a movement, not an idea. I think the movement falls short.
The idea is still being worked out.
H A M
On Apr 15, 8:34 pm, "Lee Love" <toge...@claycraft.org> wrote:
> http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a375.pdf
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> Minneapolis, Minnesota USAhttp://potters.blogspot.com/
Lee
> British Empire is a huge oversight. The book winds down by continually
>> returning to MacKenzie, who to my knowledge never ran a self-
> sustaining profitable pottery.
Not true. It has always been "profitable" and "self sustaining."
MacKenzie has said that the pottery is always what he lived off.
He once had a discussion with Lucy Rie about prices and
livelihoods. Even though his prices were much, much lower than hers,
when they both put their financial figures on paper, the found that
they made the same income.
You have no idea the amount of production he has always been
capable of. Even while teaching, he was able to fire his large kiln
every month (he did the work of 3 people.) Now that silicosis has
reduced him to half days, he fires every 6 weeks instead of every 4
months.
>A better example of the true Mingei
> "idea" is the North Carolina potters who never heard the word "Mingei"
> and to support themselves just making things. The emphasis was on
> Mingei as a movement, not an idea. I think the movement falls short.
> The idea is still being worked out.
You make the usual mistake of comparing apples and
oranges. MacKenzie is a studio potter, not a folk potter. There
are two aspects of mingei which include the folk pottery that is used
as inspiration and the modern educated artist that are inspired by it.
As Yanagi lays out about the movement he, Leach and Hamada developed,
from the Buddhist perspective there are two types of inspiration.
The one Yanagi focused on, was tariki/other
power/pureland/folkcraft/the masses. The other, that is relevant to
what we do as modern educated people. It is jiriki/self power/zen/
artist/educated people.
As far as I can tell so far, MacKenzie is the best example
of the Mingei influenced artist. If you read Barnard's essay on
Oestrich, you can see that he is another good example. Most of my
examples come from Minnesota, but it is only because that is what I
know. If I talk about people I don't know from experience, I am
bound to get it wrong.
Below is an excerpt from Rob's article on Oestrich. He is
the main person who has influenced me in trying to find brighter
colors in woodfiring and soda. I forgot about this, until I read
about him again. Intuition is really important if you want to get
what hamada calls "feeling" in it. I remember being at Jeff's
workshop and him showing a green moss covered stone wall from St.
Ives. I have a wall here Kintaro and I pass on our daily walks, and
I always thing of Jeff when I see it. It is why I use chrome green:
"Oestreich has always worked intuitively, sensing the direction he
should take his work rather than intellectually calculating the next
move. Often it is not until much later that he realizes why he chose a
particular path. A few years ago Oestreich, for instance, decided to
rent some of his property out to a local farmer to grow organic crops.
One of the first things the farmer planted was rye. That fall the rye
ripened to a deep golden color the intensity of which amazed him. He
returned the next day to photograph it and was suddenly struck with
not only the color of the rye but the deep blue of the sky and the
brilliant green of the fields, he realized for the first time that all
the colors that he had been working to achieve in soda firing had been
around him all these years. Nature had been the source of his palette
without his realizing it. Because he does not offer intellectual
rationale for these new directions, it is difficult sometimes for
viewers of his work to understand these seemingly incongruous
departures."
http://www.rob-barnard.com/essays/6mak/maksix/
See my "Oestrich inspired" stone wall:
http://daishizen.blogspot.com/
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Nan Paget
in the early 1900s. Much of this movement was brought to California
by New Englanders who settled here, including a minister from
Massachusetts, Rev. Joseph Worcester, who built the first California
Arts & Crafts home in Piedmont, Calif., and was instrumental in the
building of the San Francisco Swedenborgian Church in San Francisco,
now a national historical treasure. Below is the story of the Arequipa
Pottery in Fairfax, Marin County, now a Girl Scout property.
But examples of the potters' tile work can still be seen there.
Nan Paget
November 11, 2000 through April 29, 2001
Fired by Ideals: Arequipa Pottery and the Arts and Crafts Movement
Art Special Gallery
Presented by the Art Department
Fired by Ideals: Arequipa Pottery and the Arts
and Crafts Movement is the first major exhibition
of pottery produced at the Arequipa Sanatorium in
Marin County during the years 1911-1918. The
exhibition includes more than 100 pieces in what
is thought to be the largest showing of these
works since the Arequipa studio exhibited at the
Panama-Pacific International Exposition of 1915
in San Francisco. A series of public programs
about California pottery will complement the
exhibition, which runs from Nov. 11 through April
29, 2001 at the Oakland Museum of California.
Vase, 1913;
Madrona Vase, c. 1911-13,
Bowl, 1912
Arequipa pottery, produced by tuberculosis
patients at the sanatorium, is recognized today
as among the most important California pottery of
the Arts and Crafts period. This exhibition
features examples of the wide variety of pottery
designs and techniques that characterized the
work of the studio. Also included are tiles from
Casa Dorinda, a 65-room Spanish Colonial mansion
near Santa Barbara that was designed by Carleton
Winslow in 1916. In its largest and final
commission, Arequipa produced 8750 tiles, based
on Hispano-Moresque designs by Frank Ingerson,
for the lower great hall and upper corridor of
the mansion.
The exhibition tells two stories, that of the
sanatorium itself and that of the pottery
produced there.
THE AREQUIPA SANATORIUM
Following the 1906 earthquake and fire, dust- and
ash-filled air contributed to a tuberculosis
epidemic in San Francisco. A progressive San
Francisco doctor, Philip King Brown, founded the
Arequipa Sanatorium as a country retreat for
urban "working girls" to recuperate from
tuberculosis. The name Arequipa, taken from a
city in Peru, was said to mean "place of peace."
Brown acquired a tract of oak-shaded land outside
of Fairfax in Marin County, donated by real
estate developer and philanthropist Henry Bothin.
There, with the help of local artists and members
of the area's philanthropic community (including
Phoebe Apperson Hearst, after whom Dr. Brown
named his daughter), he created a campus, with
emphasis on outdoor living, to house and care for
tubercular women factory workers, store clerks
and teachers. Besides bed rest, handcraft was
deemed therapeutic in combating idleness and
avoiding the stigma of charity.
The philosophy of Arequipa was a direct outcome
of the Arts and Crafts movement, which, in a
reaction to late 19th-century industrialization,
advocated replacement of machine-made goods with
handicrafts. The movement affirmed filling life
with substance rather than superficialities,
strove to eliminate what it saw as a false
distinction between fine arts and the applied and
decorative arts, and saw handicraft as having a
curative value.
With origins in England, the movement spread
throughout Europe and the United States, and was
at its height in California from the mid-1890s to
the 1930s. Arts and Crafts was a sensibility
rather than a specific style, but in California
as elsewhere it tended to employ motifs derived
from nature, simple forms enhanced with complex
details, and to celebrate the vernacular.
THE POTTERY
The Arequipa Sanatorium was directed by a
succession of nationally known British ceramists:
Frederick Hürten Rhead, Albert Solon and Fred
Wilde. The basic shapes of the ceramics created
there were the responsibility of the master
potters, and surface decorations were added by
the patients working in the studio or out under
the oak trees. These decorations took the form of
designs painted on the surface and patterns
carved into the damp clay or applied in relief on
the pots.
Because of the rate of turnover of both pottery
directors and patients, a wide variety of designs
and techniques characterizes the work of the
studio. The directors experimented continually
with glazes, Rhead developing a mirror black
glaze, Solon bright blue-green glazes, and the
studio using cratered glazes and running glazes.
Rhead introduced slip trailing, the signature
form of decoration of Arequipa pottery. The
technique uses raised lines of clay, applied to
the pots with a "squeeze bag" technique similar
to that used by cake decorators, to define the
design and hold the glaze in place, much as metal
channels do in cloisonné.
The Oakland Museum of California has the largest
existing holding of pottery and tiles from
Arequipa, with more than 100 pieces in its
collections. The majority of these are from the
estate of Phoebe Hearst Brown, daughter of the
sanatorium's founder, Philip King Brown. The
exhibition includes pieces from the museum's art
and history departments as well as from the
holdings of private collections. Through
photographs, letters, advertisements and other
primary documents, the exhibition also examines
Arts and Crafts philosophy as it intersects with
social attitudes towards gender, illness and
philanthropy.
Curator of Fired by Ideals is Suzanne Baizerman,
the Imogene Gieling Curator of Crafts and
Decorative Arts at the Oakland Museum of
California.
The exhibition is accompanied by a 120-page
catalog with 50 large color illustrations and 150
smaller photos, coauthored by Baizerman, Arequipa
scholar Lynn Downey and California College of
Arts and Crafts faculty member John Toki.
Fired by Ideals: Arequipa Pottery and the Arts
and Crafts Movement is made possible by the
generous support of the Oakland Museum Women's
Board, Robert E. Hungate and H. Nona Hungate in
memory of Alice Wolcott Hungate, The Bothin
Foundation and the Friends of Arequipa Sponsors
Group.
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
Lee
> You have no idea the amount of production he has always been
> capable of. Even while teaching, he was able to fire his large kiln
> every month (he did the work of 3 people.) Now that silicosis has
> reduced him to half days, he fires every 6 weeks instead of every 4
> months.
Sorry, this should read "every 4 weeks."
Richard Mahaffey
re: F Carlton Ball there is this little magazine that he wrote for called Ceramics Monthly. You need to find a library with all of the issue of CM and go back to the begining. I knew Carlton, was a student of his and later worked as a colleague with him. I know a lot but would need questions to remember secific things. I do know that Volkos, Soldner, and Susan Peterson did not like him and at NCECA in San Jose Volkos, Soldner, and Peterson were making fun of Carlton on the stage during the Keynote. This sentiment could account for the small amount of info available. When I was at San Jose State the clay guy at UC Berkeley was a drug addled looser. I don't know how he kept his job.
Did you know that Carlton taught at Mills, I think Preito was there. I did not know Prieto but everyone who knew him said he was a great guy. Perhpas you need to look up his son Estaban Prieto the glass blower (St Louis I think) to find out about the rules of mud.
Ask and I will try to answer about Carlton or find out if I don't know. Don't forget that Herbert Sanders was at San Jose in the 50's and 60's.
Rick
Richard Mahaffey
Sorry Lee, but it does not make sense to me.
Rick
Lee
>
> Sorry Lee, but it does not make sense to me.
If you knew MacKenzie, you'd know he has character and integrity.
Also, you can't imagine his ability to produce. I have seen it with
my own eyes.
You can question my integrity if you'd, but you'd better base it on
facts and not your imagination.
--
Tim Lynch
Tim
--
Tim Lynch
The Clay Man
541 S. Kentucky.
East Wenatchee, WA 98802
On Apr 19, 8:40 pm, Lee <toge...@gmail.com> <mailto:toge...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/20/07, craig edwards <craigledwa...@gmail.com> <mailto:craigledwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Eric; Thanks for bringing up Bob Barnard. I've long admired his insight...
Lee
>
> If anyone is interested, I have several Ceramic Monthly's from the 50's and
> 60's with articles by F. Carlton Ball. Some are instructional, some are
> informational. I can probably scan and post them.
That'd be great. You can post them in the file section of claycraft.
--
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Lee
> returning to MacKenzie, who to my knowledge never ran a self-
> sustaining profitable pottery. A better example of the true Mingei
What I have always found amazing, was that MacKenzie could fire
that big gas kiln of his once a month on top of being a college
professor and an are department chair.
The other amusing thing is that he hasn't been a full time
professor in almost 20 years. That's the entire time I have worked
in clay.
Iconoclasts have my pity. ;^)
Lee in Mashiko, Japan.
Lee
> 60's with articles by F. Carlton Ball. Some are instructional, some are
> informational. I can probably scan and post them.
Anybody got any links to images of his work? I can only find a few
strange samples. Very dated.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Lee
> Anybody got any links to images of his work? I can only find a few
> strange samples. Very dated.
Some links:
Aaron Bohrod and Carlton Ball
http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/MAY2005/images/1077.jpg
http://sultana.1stdibs.com/archives/upload/7993/992/img_5522-01.jpg
attributed to Rick: http://www.ceramicstoday.com/images/odd/F_Carlton_Ball.jpg
Pat Colyar
like to sell, if anyone's interested.
Pat Colyar, in Gold Bar, WA, USA
Hank Murrow
Lee: Actually this brings to mind the story of Max Nixon - maybe Hankknows this one better - who when the budget cupboard was bare at U ofO worked without a salary.
hambone
just din't know any different. I am sure is is plausable that this
kind of studio production was concurrent with professorial duties,
such an arrangement can always be worked out. Ferguson had a deal like
that. No committes, no B.S. just travel, teach, drink coffee, and make
and sell as many pots as possible at the best price you can get. He
butlt two studios and two houses (Prairie Village, and in Montana) and
paid all the bill and had benefits too. My brother did part of the
math for me on how profitable lower priced items can be using Laura
Ross as an example. Anyway, I still think it is too bad the NCECA
book did not go into the Leach diaspora phenomenon - its kind of
amazing I think. Sorry if i mis spoke about Warren.
H A M B O N E
On Apr 20, 8:32 pm, Lee <toge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lee in Mashiko, Japanhttp://potters.blogspot.com/
hambone
I wandered into the California sun-soaked day, and was found
the better part of a mile from my home in the Oakland hills when I
just learned to walk, less than 2 years old, 1953-4. My first memory
H A M B O N E
hambone
the lives of 80+ year-olds, when it takes all day to get 3 meals on
the table, and suddenly there is a recitation of Prieto's 'Rules Of
Mud'. Well you can probably imagine what they are - "go slow, throw
from the inside, keep it together" (no, that was from the movie
Bowfinger) anyway California is a quick moment from no culture in the
30's to BOOM. The idea was ( i.e. mingei) post industrial revolution
backlash = folk art and folk craft emphasis. This is also reflected in
appreciation of other kinds of "primitives" - the fascination is
questionable at times, always seems to have colonial/class struggle
issues. Time to hit the sack - worked on some crazy job for NYT
400,000+
h a m b o n e
p.s. have a happy Sunday
dad says that there was a noboragama built at CCAC way back in the
early '50's (named St. Elmo's Fire) - I think it was the same Japanese
builder who built Leach's at St. Ives. Is that right? Or is it just
way past bed time?
On Apr 21, 12:18 am, Richard Mahaffey <rickmahaf...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Lee
>
> Lee: Well this is a new one on me. I have often heard this said and
> just din't know any different. I am sure is is plausable that this
> kind of studio production was concurrent with professorial duties,
> such an arrangement can always be worked out. Ferguson had a deal like
> that. No committes, no B.S. just travel, teach, drink coffee, and make
> and sell as many pots as possible at the best price you can get.
Like I have said, I am not sure how he did it, because that was
around 20 years ago. But the UofMN Art dept. is a lot bigger than
Kansas City, with an MFA program to boot and MacKenzie was the chair
of the art department. I can't see how he could avoid committee
meetings. I can only base my judgement on his work in the last 20
years. Until silicosis caught up with him, he was firing 600
pieces of work in his large gas kiln once every month. Now, at 85, he
fires the same kiln every 6 weeks, working only half days.
> Ross as an example. Anyway, I still think it is too bad the NCECA
> book did not go into the Leach diaspora phenomenon -
Diaspora? I am not sure what you are talking about. You mean,
other students outside of England like Clary Illian, Byron Temple,
John Reeve and Jeff Oestrich?
Related the Jugtown, have you read the Potter's Eye?
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
sacredclay
he support himself? surely not all of his works got sold privately to
pay for the bills.Kathryn
Hank Murrow
I'm curious. If he worked for all those time without a salary, how didhe support himself? surely not all of his works got sold privately topay for the bills.Kathryn
Richard Mahaffey
I just wonder if he taught for free or where did that money go.............
I have read quotes that his pottery is/was self supporting. I guess the problem to me is self supporting means it pay all the bills.
In an extensive interview he gave when in Seattle he said that teapots should cost $30.00 and bowls cost such and such. For the next two years it was tougher to sell pots in this area because of that article and his quotes. I can say my pottery is self supporting, but it does not pay for my health insurance, gas for my truck, clothes, house and so forth. It does not support me.
As for production ability many people have that. Around here the Ceramics Professors (F Carlton Ball, Ken Stevens, David Keyes, Bob Sperry) I knew did not undercut the pricing of local potters (I am not saying that MacKenzie did that but his prices would have undercut potters in these parts) but made sure that their prices were at least equal or higher than the prevailing because they understood with their salary from teaching they were not earning a living and they were not paying for their studio at home from pot money. It is just a different point of view, one that is concerned with the local potters and their ability to earn a living.
Lee, I am not trying to start an argument, I am just telling you what I know and have experienced.
Rick
Lee
>
> Lee, I do not question your integrity, nor MacKenzie's. I realize that
> MacKenzie is one of your ......heros for want of a better word.
I have not problem in acknowledging my betters. Yes I
would put MacKenzie in a small circle of my most important influences.
Of the living and recently departed, they would include: Dainin
Katagiri Roshi, Wendell Berry (he reminds me a lot of MacKenzie),
Gary Snyder and Warren MacKenzie.
They are right there with folks I have never met like
Thoreau, Blake, Dogen and Ryokan.
MacKenzie, like my zen teacher Katagiri Roshi, is one of
those rare accomplished people who never let his accomplishments go to
his head. They are both humble and generous people. The best I
have ever met.
The rest of my response later. I want this to sink in first.
Richard Mahaffey
Rick
Lee
http://www.startribune.com/1375/story/1131588.html
Collecting mania
Minnesota collectors share their love of all things ceramic, from
ancient Chinese jars to contemporary teapots with attitude.
hambone
library) - he reminds me a bit of Sheldon Carey - did similar work it
seems. So you're saying Carlton Ball was at Puget Sound but previously
was at Mills, San Jose?
I can't imagine Susan Peterson being as much of an asshole as Voulkos
&/or Soldner - is it true?
While we're at it, I thought Dad said that the kiln builder who built
a Noboragama at CCAC in the late '40;s early '50's was also Leach's
builder at st. Ives. This puts that whole crowd ahead of schedule
doesn't it? Richard Hochkiss and Rimas Visgirda built a 6-chamber in
N. Calif in the early '60's this we know. Any info? Crazy what you
get out of old people some times...
E R I C
On Apr 21, 12:18 am, Richard Mahaffey <rickmahaf...@comcast.net>
wrote:
rickma...@comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: hambone <kansas...@gmail.com>
>
> Rick: I'll try to follow up on the CM articles (I know of such a
> library) - he reminds me a bit of Sheldon Carey - did similar work it
> seems. So you're saying Carlton Ball was at Puget Sound but previously
> was at Mills, San Jose?
>
> I can't imagine Susan Peterson being as much of an asshole as Voulkos
> &/or Soldner - is it true?
>
> While we're at it, I thought Dad said that the kiln builder who built
> a Noboragama at CCAC in the late '40;s early '50's was also Leach's
> builder at st. Ives. This puts that whole crowd ahead of schedule
> doesn't it? Richard Hochkiss and Rimas Visgirda built a 6-chamber in
> N. Calif in the early '60's this we know. Any info? Crazy what you
> ge t out of old people some times...
> E R I C
>
> On Apr 21, 12:18 am, Richard Mahaffey
> > >widespread in England w hen Leach said there was none. I found an old
> > >book 1880's in KU's library showing schematics of England's old craft
> > >kilns at various schools and craft centers. I am sure that a study of
> > >pre-Leach England would reveal a momentum so described.
> >
> > >My Mom used to talk all the time about the Arts and Crafts Movement
> > >(1950's) in California. What is interesting here, and anyone who
> > >studies autochthonous West Coast culture (in otherwords NOT Hollywood)
> > >will realize that much of California was inaccessable by road well
> > >into the 1930's - it was decidedly rural, and industrialization comes
> > >at a much later date that elsewhere in the country - this places the
> > >mid-fifties renaissance in the arts. Steinbeck, William Everson
> > >(Brother Antonius), Robinson Jeffers all deal with these themes in < BR>> > >literature. Could this be an example of Moeran's hypothesis?
> >
> > >Dad (in his mid-80's) began to recite California College of Arts and
> > >Crafts' Tony Prieto's "1st Rule Of Mud" when I was in Louisville, but
> > >I have had little or no success getting info about Tony Prieto of F.
> > >Carlton Ball online. This is kind of sad since west-coasters make
> > >claims of how important and influental they were. Does anyone know of
> > >print literature? I love to know what Prieto's Rules Of Mud were, and
> > >how he could give Voulkos an MFA (?)
> >
> > >It's funny, Mom always says anyone can be an artist, and that anything
> > >that they make is a priceless work of art. This would place the most
> > >gnarly sub-par ancient Karatsu pot made by an unknown craftsman as
> > >high as Michelangelo's David. Inte resting perspective? This is
> > >straight from CCAC courses, from the mid-forties. It's like they took
> > >the Ruskin/Morris/et al., and transplanted it straight into the West
> > >Coast. And while later Voulkos, Price, Arneson, and all them come out
> > >later there was a solid footing in real craft in the beginning.
> >
> > >H A M B O N E
> >
> > >On Apr 19, 8:40 pm, Lee wrote:
> >
> > >>On 4/20/07, craig edwards wrote:
> >
> > >>Eric; Thanks for bringing up Bob Barnard. I've long admired his insight...
> >
> > >>>he is worth the read, and can turn a phase like Dylan. Sorry to say that
> I
> > >>>haven't read the mingei crit. .... I'm a little mingei'd out at present....
> > >>>thinking about neo gnarly, or post mi ngei, beyond mingei. whatever.
L BURCH
>>>>>>>Don't forget that Herbert Sanders was at San Jose in the 50's
and 60's.<<<<<<<<<<<<<
And early '70's
Richard Mahaffey
I could not forget Dr Sanders, but Hammy asked about Carlton Ball. ;-) ( I included Dr Sanders in a private email to Hambone.)
I was lucky enough to have both as teachers and mentors.
Rick
Lee
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Rob
I started my ceramics work some 30+ years ago in Minnesota making
Mingeisota inspired work. When I was at the U of M in the mid-late
70's where I did my undergrad work, MacKenzie was urging his students
to become potters. The problem was at the time his yunomi sold for
around $4 so his newly graduating students had to price theirs around
$2 or so in order to have any chance of survival. Even when factoring
inflation, a $2 yunomi is not going to make your house payment, studio
expenses, health insurance, put food on the table, car expenses, nor
allow you to stash a little coin for your old age. Putting these
realities aside, working as a full prof with bennies gives you the
flexibility to price your work as you please which, as you inplied,
Warren has done in a manner which has had ramifications for those of
us trying to do what Warren preaches, to make one's livelyhood in
clay.
Not complaining here as life is choices but merely, like you, pointing
out a reality/perspective on making a living in clay which differs
from Warren's.
Rob in Seattle
On Apr 22, 10:32 am, Richard Mahaffey <rickmahaf...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> >On 4/21/07, Richard Mahaffey <rickmahaf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Sorry Lee, but it does not make sense to me.
>
> > If you knew MacKenzie, you'd know he has character and integrity.
> >Also, you can't imagine his ability to produce. I have seen it with
> >my own eyes.
>
> > You can question my integrity if you'd, but you'd better base it on
> >facts and not your imagination.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
L BURCH
"Glazes for Special Effects".
leonard
At 06:33 PM 4/28/2007 +0900, you wrote:
>Did Sanders make pots? Can't remember if he had his own pots in his book.
>
> --
>Lee in Mashiko, Japan
rickma...@comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Lee <tog...@gmail.com>
>
> Did Sanders make pots? Can't remember if he had his own pots in his book.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://potters.blogspot.com/
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
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rickma...@comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: L BURCH <bur...@earthlink.net>
>
> Yes. But very basic forms. You can see some of his work in his book,
> "Glazes for Special Effects".
>
> leonard
>
> At 06:33 PM 4/28/2007 +0900, you wrote:
>
L BURCH
At 07:33 PM 4/28/2007 +0000, you wrote:
Yes, he made lots of pots. Crystalline glazes were his thing when I was his student, but he also developed Celadons, copper reds, shinos (pre-wirt by about 20 or so years), temoku and oil spot glazes, etc. He worked with rare earth glazes and had some truly amazing things that he did with glazes. He used to come into the studio at 4 am to work before classes started for the day.
He was most definately a potter. Some of the pots in Glazes for special effects were his, but he liked to use work of his students to help them gain some recognition. He was that kind of teacher.
Lee
>
> Not complaining here as life is choices but merely, like you, pointing
> out a reality/perspective on making a living in clay which differs
> from Warren's.
>
The reality of the price issue, is that what MacKenzie does in
pricing effects prices very little, even in his own shop where nobody
ever copied MacKenzie's prices. But their pots still sold. The
last time Willem Gebben wrote me he said his sales at MacKenzie's shop
were what kept him afloat. When I heard that MacKenzie's shop has
closed, I first wondered how it would effect Willem.
At the show in Nikko where MacKenzie invited 12 potters from
Minnesota and Wisconsin to participate,. all the other potters
prices were higher than Mack's. But everything sold. almost
immediately. Only Tim Crane's sculpture didn't go fast
on the first day.
I do think he makes people think. Especially folks who
price their work too high. His integrity in practicing what he
preaches helps keep us honest. And what he has done to educate
folks and expand the market, by far, overwhelms any effect his prices
have on the market.
Mashiko is a good example of how different prices on work can
exist side by side. Yesterday at Toki-ichi, we had a thunder storm
about 2:30pm. (we ended up closing for the day.) Had to hold onto
the corner posts to keep the tent from blowing away. We packed our
prints into Kintaro's dog crate which worked good to keep them safe.
We are in front of the Togei Messe Museum. We don't set
out yellow plastic crates on the ground with 500yen work in them.
In fact, all my large work has the show price stickers on them and
the small work has my shop prices. In our row, we have
consistently our sold our neighbors who do put out 500yen bins. In
the fall, half of our take was from Jean and my woodblock prints,
many selling over 10,000 yen. Folks will buy quality work if you put
it out, espeically if it stands out in some why. The wood block
prints do this easily.
It is important to do what you think is right and make up
your own mind.
Lee
http://northernclaycenter.org/shop/MacKenzieSales.php
I always thought his "Kids's shelf" idea was a great teaching tool:
Warren MacKenzie "Kid Shelf"
* Purchasers must be age 10 and under.
* All pieces are $5 payable with CASH only.
* One piece per "kid" per month.
Lee
>
> I started my ceramics work some 30+ years ago in Minnesota making
> Mingeisota inspired work.
Rob, what is a "MingeiSota" pot to you?
One of the things I have noticed about MingeiSota, is that
instead of simply copying Asian pottery, they incorporate elements
that make the work fully MidWestern. I can without hesitation say
that pots made by MacKenzie, Oestrich, Randy Johnston, Jan MacKechie
Johnson, Linda Christenson and Bob Briscoe are good examples of the
place where they are made. They all make functional woodfired/soda
work that is not limited to a dark pallet. I think the soda firing
influenced their pallet.
There are some other attitudinal values that set
them apart. But I'll talk about that later.
craig edwards
~Craig
Lee
> When did Bob Briscoe start woodfiring/soda ?
He gets his color variation from woodash glazes. His 50/50
glaze is pretty close to Shimaoka's, except his base glaze uses RedArt
instead of ball clay and that makes it run more.
I was speaking generally about that group that fires short
climbing kilns . Randy and Ruggles & Rankin get their brighter
effects from slips, like Avery, and atmospheric effects. After being
at Shimaoka's, I thought that Randy's aesthetics were influenced by
Shimaoka's yohen work. Willem's noborigama work tends to be darker.
But I like the soft feeling of his textures. I have always thought
these come from the fact that he single fires.
I forgot Oestrich's contribution to my interests until
I was reminded by Rob Bernard's essay on Jeff. His firing soda in
oxidation tends to be brighter. Mark Pharis' lowfired soda caught my
eye too. Also his lead glazes.
hambone
Mae on day at the Museum of Anthropology. I sometimes wondered why EMU
Craft Center hadn't been renamed the Max Nixon Craft Center - maybe
its that "unknown craftsman" thing - or maybe the shortsightedness of
the U of O on the craft issue (especially considering how much tuition
it brings in) with their Art VS. Craft bias. Ralph needs to get some
matte and satin matte glazes going on down there (EMU) - all that
gloss hurts the eyes
H A M B O N E
Hank Murrow
On May 12, 2007, at 2:25 PM, hambone wrote:
>
> Hank: Thanks for the scoop on Max Nixon. I had a long talk with Hattie
> Mae on day at the Museum of Anthropology. I sometimes wondered why EMU
> Craft Center hadn't been renamed the Max Nixon Craft Center - maybe
> its that "unknown craftsman" thing - or maybe the shortsightedness of
> the U of O on the craft issue (especially considering how much tuition
> it brings in) with their Art VS. Craft bias. Ralph needs to get some
> matte and satin matte glazes going on down there (EMU) - all that
> gloss hurts the eyes
Dear Eric;
I am nearly incommunicado here in Fairbanks, so must be brief in this
café..........
Have completed a very successful workshop and now experiencing the
unplumbed corners of inland AK.
Will be heading to Anchorage tomorrow for the last workshop. Cheers,
Hank
Lee
the life of a Shigaraki potter compares to other potters in Japan, but
I am guessing that is is similar to the lives of other country potters
(as opposed to Kyoto potters.) I have been skimming, trying to pick
up any reports of the life and social status of potters. Will get
back to reading it carefully.
Tea ceremony ware didn't improve their status much. Actually, it
placed more demands on them when feudal lords started placing orders
for teaware.
Things were espeically difficult through the Meiji Era, when
folks stopped using tradtional hibachi and other ceramic functional
utensils. They switched to making things like acid jars and during
the war, landmines and grenade bodies.
As much as folks hate to give Yanagi credit, what we know
of as the life of artist potter didn't come about until the 20th
century. Okakura Tenshin, also in response to the Meji Era
Westernization of Japan, promoted Asian Arts in the way Yanagi
promoted the crafts.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau