[Clayart] A converted cone 10 reduction Red

[joel joelfink.net via Clayart]

I've never posted here, only replied, so I have no idea if this is how you send an initial post.

Years ago, when I was learning how to create glazes on Tony Hanson's desktop software, we had a problem with our red. I thought it would be a great learning experience to redesign the red away from the need for Gerstley.

We fired a test of the glaze and it was, in my opinion, better than the original. That said, it was decided that we didn't want that recipe, so I never fired it again. I seriously doubt I will build an atmospheric kiln after four years of electric now.

------Joel's Red-------
Custer            73.0
Whiting           11.7        
Dolomite          1.6
Frit 3134          11.1
EPK               2.6

Copper Carb.       0.5
Tin Ox.             1.0

I have 2% bentonite on the recipe card too, but I don't remember if the test was done with or without it, and I tend to test without first, just to keep variables down.

If you try it, please do let me know how well it worked for you.

Joel Fink
Ficklefink Pottery.
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[Terry Lazaroff via Clayart]

Joel;

I believe that I saw your red glaze on a website. It looked like a tomato red. When I was firing with gas, I used Jeff's red. It was marked as a cone 9 reduction glaze. Gave great results when used with a Chun glaze. I have been firing electric for the past 20 years and I still use Jeff's red. I use it with Potterry Supply House 900 porcelain. But I only fire to cone 8 and I cool quickly. It gives me a great copper blue similar to southern celedon blue with a large crackle pattern that accepst black ink staining.

I don't know if this link will make it past the filters. https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvrvirYIvMPSiKBlgn1xSSKP7R5Qlw?e=OPnBqD

Best
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From: Clayart <clayart...@lists.clayartforum.com> on behalf of joel joelfink.net via Clayart <cla...@lists.clayartforum.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2024 6:48 PM
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Cc: joel joelfink.net <jo...@joelfink.net>
Subject: [Clayart] A converted cone 10 reduction Red

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[joel joelfink.net via Clayart]

Terry,

This is a conversion of a glaze that was titled "Jeff's Red," good call. I didn't know who developed the glaze. The recipe I made fires out to a rich ox blood type of red in reduction, at cone 10 or 11. I've never used it in electric, so I have no idea there.

Thanks! Here I was thinking someone just made the "Jeff's" part up, lol..

In any event, as gerstley goes away, this will work, if someone does a lot of Reds.

Thanks!,
Joel Fink
Ficklefink Pottery

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Sent: Monday, May 27, 2024 7:12:41 AM

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Cc: Terry Lazaroff <terryl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] A converted cone 10 reduction Red

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[joel joelfink.net via Clayart]

Terry,
Also, beautiful vase! I see what you were pointing to in using this glaze,in oxidation. I've gotten my ^6 body up to 8 safely, so that is doable foe me with little change (though my main clay, Newman's, is going away).

I have a question. I'm pushing up to 10 oxy. Is there a reason you are doing 8? I've considered stopping at 8 since my present body will fire to there. But, I'm not sure if the mullite is where I want it to be. Also, the calcium problem of doing 6 doesn't seem to go away enough, at least in my mind.

Joel

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Sent: Monday, May 27, 2024 7:12:41 AM

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Cc: Terry Lazaroff <terryl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] A converted cone 10 reduction Red

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[Terry Lazaroff via Clayart]

Joel;

When I was studying, we had to make a glaze for our class project, It was supposed to be for a cone 9 firing. My glaze crazed. One of my classmates suggested that I fire one cone higher. I did and that helped reduce the amount of crazing. When I used Jeff's red, I was firing with gas. It gave a good rich red and worked well with my chun. However, when we lost the privilege for a gas kiln, I turned to electric. I had some Jeffs Red left over, so I used it. The kiln setter went down before the guard cones. So, the work was underfired. I also opened my kiln while there was still a lot of heat, and I could hear the pinging of the glaze as it crazed. Voila. The result was a Celedon glaze with clean crazing, that allowed staining with India ink, and composing where I wish the stain to go. I do not just cover the entire piece, I just stain where I feel that will be a good pattern. Also, the stain will dry due to the piece being warm. So, when I clean up the excess ink, I am careful to damp sponge it. I do not wash under running water as all the crazing lines will stain and the pot will look grey in colour. Basically, I am using a cone 9/10 clay, glazing it with a cone 9 glaze that when underefired by one cone, and opening the kiln as soon as possible without catching fire. The piece will craze.

Remember, I am using a cone 9/10 clay from PSH porcelain, They are located in Ontario.
Another point. Jeff's Red has an upper limit. At a hard cone 9 in a gas kiln will give fluid glaze. So be careful.


I haven't done a firing this way for a while. I guess I will have to give it another go. My work today is more of surface brush work. You can see my present line here; www.lazaroff.ca<http://www.lazaroff.ca>
I will try to dig out the Jeff's Red recipe and send it to you.

Best Terry

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[joel joelfink.net via Clayart]

Nice work Terry! I'm starting sculpting, but I'm at the very beginning.

Here is the recipe I used to convert to the frit-sourced boron recipe.

Custer      77.7
Whiting     11.6
Gerstley     10.6
Tin          1.0
Copper      0.5

There is a lot of distance between my skills then and now, and I see glazes differently. This isn't a glaze that I would recommend for the dishwasher and crazing is a given with so much K/NaO. It is within my specs, but just within, with its R2O/RO ratio of 4-6. I could be wrong about this, but I'm less concerned with a 2-8 than I am with a 4-6. I'm probably just being superstitious, lol. On top of that, there is twice as much boron as my target limit in a cone 6 glaze, and it's cone 10. I have ground so much red glaze in my time as a potter.

Like so many glazes, I think that this red is more of a potter's accomplishment than it is an actual product. It is a great add if you have the right complementing glazes though, but the cost in time and labor isn't justified to me. I get very interesting, and marketable, glazes, without it.

That said, there are many potters who use it and will need a new recipe after Gerstley's final act. I'm hoping that this helps someone make the move from Gerstley, and perhaps give some confidence that there is a world without Gerstley, ulexite, colemanite, etc.

Joel Fink
Ficklefink Pottery

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[Terry Lazaroff via Clayart]

Hello Joel;

I might play with this recipe. Thank you for sending it and the explanation as well. Your comment about copper reds is so true. I remember walking down a street in Jingdezhen and I saw a little boy playing with a bunch of little tea bowls that were copper red. looking further I saw copper reds stacked in the shop. When I saw that I sorta decided to leave copper reds just as another glaze.

Sadly the ceramic artists have moved a bit away from copper reds and have started using pigments to get the red. But, the colour is flat and closer to tomato red. I hope they maintain the expertise for good copper reds as they are special pots.

Take care, I will keep in touch.

Terry
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[ronroy--- via Clayart]

I haven't received any clayart mail for about a week - what's happening?

RR

Ron Roy
ron...@ca.inter.net
Web page ronroy.net

[David Woof via Clayart]

Hi Ron,
Tell us what you are doing or thinking lately. That will most likely get the idea juices flowing for us as well.
You are always welcome "chewing the fat" at my campfire.

Love,
David Woof..........................My Muse says that with +104 f night time temperatures in other parts of the Earth it is a sure-fire condition to distract. (Oh, did she say "Fire?")......Don't have to do "rain dances" either she says! Seems more than enough fire and rain to go around huh?..........The thoughtful little Raven-Haired Vixen usually calls it right in the big picture.
**************************************************************************************
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[ronroy--- via Clayart]

Hi David,

Good to hear from you.

I'm onto a well known professor's blog claiming manganese is not toxic
to potters. Nonsense of course but why is someone who is educating
future potters and teachers ignorant to that extent? He was educated
at Alfred and taught there as well.

I'm sure manganese is what did David Shaner in. In those days we were
all mostly ignorant about the dangers in the clays and glazes.

I used to have a dialogue with Carl Platt about the dangers of barium.
He asked where were all the corpses. I said there was a mountain of
dead rats - how could he miss that?

Anyway, more to come about the manganese and pigheadedness.

You can almost see the corn growing up here - RR

[Paul Randall via Clayart]

To all,
The danger of Manganese lies in inhaling fumes during the firing. Those fumes I’m sure affected Shaner and killed Byron Temple, among others. Use Manganese sparingly and in a well-ventilated studio.
Paul Randall

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

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Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2024 2:28:47 PM

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[ronroy--- via Clayart]

Hi Paul,

Manganese dust is also a problem.I knew a Potter in Toronto who used a
black firing clay coloured with manganese. Hi whole studio was dark
grey. He killed himself but I don't know why. I don't think there is a
clay company in North America that sells manganese coloured clay any
more.

Best to consider manganese in whatever form a danger.

Remember when they took lead out of gasoline? They replaced it with
manganese. I don't know how long that went on but it was disallowed
eventually.

One of the particularly sad things about manganese is - even though
you stop exposure the symptoms keep getting worse.

RR

[joel joelfink.net via Clayart]

I read a factoid years ago, during my youth, about an island among those many islands northeast of Australia. When the Europeans landed on the Island they were shocked at how viciously aggressive the inhabitants were. If I remember right, the warriors would throw themselves at the Europeans, only to be destroyed. At a later date, it was discovered that surface deposits of Manganese were all over the Island. The theory was that it caused neural damage and that the tribes there were essentially insane.

I treat all transitional metals in my glaze lab the same, as a threat to my dying of old age.

Still, I say that the thing that will get you will likely be silicosis. It isn't that it is particle by particle more dangerous. It is that if you are treating the metals casually, you are probably so screwed for having treated silica dust casually.

Joel Fink
Ficklefink Pottery
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Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2024 6:23 PM

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[Edouard Bastarache via Clayart]

RIGHT ON,
EdouArd

Ps; https://digitalfire.com/hazard/manganese+inorganic+compounds+toxicology

-----Message d'origine-----
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ronroy--- via Clayart
Envoyé : 29 juin 2024 15:29
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[Paul Randall via Clayart]

To all,
The manganese that I use is granular, less dust. I use it in Gosu slip and grind it in a blender wet. The heavy metal still settles to the bottom. Need to stir before use. There is also a finer cut, a powder, but that one I avoid. I did once use granular manganese, sprinkled on a pot. It came out beautifully, but I fired it, one pot in my outdoor gas/wood kiln.

I do use the Gosu slip for brushwork on ^6 electric, vented with Orton Vent Master. I use it sparingly, only a few pots per kiln load.

My jar of Gosu slip is marked with a red skull and crossbones. Beyond the Gosu slip, I avoid Manganese in glazes and clay bodies.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

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Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2024 11:52:30 AM

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