[Clayart] cleaning aluminum pugmill

[don jung via Clayart]

About time I cleaned out my pugmill. It's a nice aluminum bailey personal
size model. I've blasted it every which way...but it's not coming loose!
I've reclaimed many boxes of old clay and it seems I used my pugmill for
some porcelain type clay body which has adhered to the barrel like glaze.
Does anyone have some experience with the corrosive interaction of
porcelain and aluminum and has successfully cleaned off the clay that's
stuck on the surface. I thought pressure washing would do the trick, but
it's tougher than that. Do I need to resort to a wire brush and sandpaper
products? Perhaps a simple solution or cleanser of some sort will help
to loosen the bonds?

appreciate any advice so I can spend my time on a pot instead.

Cheers,
Don Jung in warming Vancouver
MAILMAN_MIMEDEFANG WRAP
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[PETER HAMER via Clayart]

Hi,

While you are waiting for an informed reply, can I caution you against experimental
use of alkaline/caustic cleaners. As they destroy the protective oxide layer on the
aluminium, which then corrodes very rapidly.

A couple of refs which suggest that you may have a problem on your hands:
http://www.peterpugger.com/pugmill-extruder/porcelain.html
http://www.potters.org/subject120276.htm

... hoping that you find somebody whose been there, done that.

Regards, Peter

----Original message----
From : cla...@lists.clayartworld.com
Date : 20/04/2015 - 21:17 (BST)
To : cla...@lists.clayartworld.com
Subject : [Clayart] cleaning aluminum pugmill

[Anne Doyle via Clayart]

I had success cleaning the tough stuff out of mine with a brass wire brush on a drill. I went through about 6 of them... I did the tighter corners with the same brushes in smaller sizes with my Dremel...
Good luck!
Anne in Saint-Sauveur, QC

"Sometimes your joy is the source of your smile, but sometimes your smile can be the source of your joy" Thich Nhat Hanh

[pdp1 via Clayart]

Hi Don,

Can you post some images somewhere ( Fotki, Photobucket, etc ) with a link
to the Album?

General views, and some good close ups?

I believe one should never leave Clay in an Aluminum Pugmill...so, this may
be a good time for some review and sicussion on that.

I have heard many similar tales of woe, which result from leaving Clay in
Aluminum Pug Mills, so...

I would say "Do not do it!"

Clean it well when done Pugging, and leave it Spic-n-Span and "empty".

Phil
L v

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

About time I cleaned out my pugmill. It's a nice aluminum bailey personal
size model. I've blasted it every which way...but it's not coming loose!
I've reclaimed many boxes of old clay and it seems I used my pugmill for
some porcelain type clay body which has adhered to the barrel like glaze.
Does anyone have some experience with the corrosive interaction of
porcelain and aluminum and has successfully cleaned off the clay that's
stuck on the surface. I thought pressure washing would do the trick, but
it's tougher than that. Do I need to resort to a wire brush and sandpaper
products? Perhaps a simple solution or cleanser of some sort will help
to loosen the bonds?

appreciate any advice so I can spend my time on a pot instead.

Cheers,
Don Jung in warming Vancouver

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[don jung via Clayart]

I wanted to send this to the list as well...Has anyone tried a calgon or
Epsom salt solution to loosen porcelain clay off aluminum?

thanks,
Don
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: don jung <donj...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Clayart] cleaning aluminum pugmill
To: p.h...@btinternet.com

Thanks for the caution. I searched a bit and was considering soaking the
aluminum in a solution of epsom salts or calgon which I don't think will be
dangerous but I was hoping to gain from some collective experience instead
of learning the old fashion way.

Kind Regards,
Don

[via Clayart]

>I don't remember whether it was aluminum for certain, but we had a Venco
deairing pug pugmill, the barrel of which was aluminum, I think. I
oredered it for the school I graduated from back in 1987, it is still in
service. I know for certain that clay was left in the mill for the time
that I was there and much of the time ever since.

We would clean out the screens from time to time when they were getting a
bit clogged. Taking the barrel apart happened once every six months or so.

Hope this helps

Craig

[via Clayart]

> We basically used water and a pressure washer to clean it out. Whatever
remained we didn't worry about. Never seemed to have a deleterious
effect.

Hope this helps

Craig

[Bonnie Staffel via Clayart]

I don't know if my solution will work, but I have always used HOT water to
get dry clay to absorb the water and remoisten in my pug mill. If that
fails, I have used Shaklee's Basic H added to the water as it is a wetting
agent. May work. And none of these ideas will hurt your aluminum. As an
added thought, I would never buy a pug mill with such a finish. Stainless
Steel is the best, IMO. I have had mine since the 70's and have no problem.
Too late for you though. What does Bailey suggest?

Regards, Bonnie

http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/

http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html

DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs

DVD Introduction to Wheel Work

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[Vince Pitelka via Clayart]

I am sure that Peter Pugger would love to know the secret of Venco's aluminum pugmill barrels. We have a Venco and we leave porcelain in it all the time and never encounter any problems with nodules or weird corrosion. My home-built Harry Davis steel pugmill reacted badly to porcelain and ever since then I have only used it for stoneware bodies, and I have always left clay in the mill. I would not own an aluminum pugmill (or ANY pugmill for that matter) if I had to clean it out after every use. That would not be cost effective unless you were only using a pugmill to occasionally mix clay, and that seems kind of a waste of a pugmill.

I think that the only solution for people pugging real porcelain is a Venco or one of the stainless steel pugmills now available from Bailey and Peter Pugger.
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpit...@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/

[Jeff Lawrence via Clayart]

Phil wrote:
clean it out!
I wrote:
Irrational idea!
Phil wrote
Hold on just a second!

Hi Phil,
You read the original post more carefully than I did, and it certainly
makes sense to clean it out and leave empty if it's going to sit for
months. Once it's pitted, there's not much to be done.
Best,
Jeff

[Ivor Lewis via Clayart]

Dear friends,
Often there are misunderstandings about the nature of the metallic. Removing
our ignorance takes a little mental priming. Substances used in the
production of the equipment we use need elaborating. I am uncertain of the
actual compositions and specific properties of a group termed Aluminium
Bronzes but many have been found to have corrosion resistance in the
presence of aqueous alkali and acidic solutions.

Wishing Mel a rapid recovery,

Ivor Lewis,
South Australia

[Taylor Hendrix via Clayart]

If by "aluminum bronzes" you are referring to a product that is readily
available these days in the form of exterior screws, I can tell you that
exposing them to our marine environment results in eventual rusting. I'm
sure the corrosion potential is dissimilar between sale assure and
porcelain clay, but there you are.
On Apr 22, 2015 6:47 AM, "Ivor Lewis via Clayart" <

[jonathan byler via Clayart]

there probably isn't much of a secret, I'm guessing they are cast from an alloy resistant to alkali corrosion, if such a thing exists.

[Vince Pitelka via Clayart]

Regarding my comment that Venco aluminum pugmill barrels are unaffected by porcelain and that Peter Pugger would like to know how they do that, Jonathan Byler wrote:

"There probably isn't much of a secret, I'm guessing they are cast from an alloy resistant to alkali corrosion, if such a thing exists."

Well, uh, yeah, that's the whole point Jonathan. If Peter Pugger knew of an alloy resistant to corrosion, they would not have struggled with unhappy customers for years and ultimately produced a stainless steel pugmill to solve the problem, so apparently it IS much of a secret.

[Bryan Johnson via Clayart]

My Venco from about 1990 is affected.

Bryan

[jonathan byler via Clayart]

some folks are better at engineering and/or understand materials better than others. one way to do it is to buy a venco pug mill and have the material that the barrel is made from analyzed by a competent metallurgist. I'm surprised if venco have found an alloy that doesn't corrode when left in contact with porcelain that others haven't had this alloy analyzed so that they can use if for their own machines. reverse engineering of a sort. Even if it is a secret, it wouldn't be for long if someone really wanted to know.

[jonathan byler via Clayart]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_bronze

Aluminum bronzes are copper alloys with aluminum added as a primary alloying ingredient. Most bronze used in the casting industry are silicon bronzes, and of course there is the old standby with copper and tin. brasses are technically in the "bronze" family of alloys, but use zinc as the main alloying metal which is added to the copper. Our venco pug mill is definitely not aluminum bronze.