[Clayart] Before I pull my hair out

[Cyndy Shorter via Clayart]

Maybe the open studio clients are spoiled, but I am asking for your
educated and experienced guidance. I teach pottery and run a studio for a
non-profit art school. The issue is finding a clay body which will please
most.......if that is possible. The B-mix was "too much like porcelain" (I
don't think any of them have tried to work with porcelain) and "hurts their
wrists". The Little Loafers is "too sticky", " hard to hand-build with" and
"hard for beginners". The Standard 553 warm buff is "too groggy". I've
tried 5 different ^6 commercial clay bodies in the past 6 months. Can any
of you recommend a ^6 commercial stoneware that is a good all-round clay
for throwing and hand-building?
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[John Johnson via Clayart]

Can any of you recommend a ^6 commercial stoneware that is a good all-round
clay
for throwing and hand-building?

If you have access to highwater Clays, I'd suggest Brownstone or Speckled
Brownstone. Very fine grog, works well as a handbuilding clay and also for
throwing. Seems my students found it a bit more "forgiving". We used it
and also Highwater's Little Loafers ^6. LL was a little less forgiving
because of no grog but can people easily adapted to it. IMHO.



johnniej
Mudbucketpottery.com
mudb...@gmail.com* <-- NEW email*
843-249-1600 Studio *<--NEW studio number*
843-340-1674 Cell (when it works!)

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[Bonnie Hellman via Clayart]

Candy, I think you just can't please all the people all the time. Why not have two clays, or three, all the same cone.

Bonnie

Sent from my iPad

[MGordon via Clayart]

I find Soldate 60 a good all around clay, Mike Gordon

[Daphne Vega via Clayart]

Hi Cindy. I was in a similar situation and landed on Laguna wc-398 (W-4). It is a whiteish stoneware ^5, seemed to satisfy most people (throwing and handbuilding) at the community studio i ran.

Cheers
Daphne

Sent from my iPhone

[Cyndy Shorter via Clayart]

I have some speckled brownstone for them to try.
On May 2, 2016 6:02 PM, "John Johnson via Clayart" <

URL: <http://lists.clayartworld.com/pipermail/clayart/attachments/20160502/4265192b/attachment.html>

[Cyndy Shorter via Clayart]

We use a low fire white clay for the kids' classes. As well as soldate for
raku. I use Coleman 10 porcelain. So a light clay is preferred so cleaning
the tables is manageable.
On May 2, 2016 6:02 PM, "Bonnie Hellman via Clayart" <

URL: <http://lists.clayartworld.com/pipermail/clayart/attachments/20160502/11c3e26b/attachment.html>

[MGordon via Clayart]

Also IMCO sculpture clay 412Also IMCO sculpture clay 412
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[Tommy Humphries via Clayart]

Talk to your clay supplier. If all like the grogged stoneware,except for the grog, then perhaps get them to make up some with less or no grog. Same with the other clays. The sticky stuff, get a 50 pound bag of grog, let the, wedge it in themselves... Do em good to do something for themselves. No one clay will be perfect for everyone, but often the suppliers will be willing to help make one clay in several different ways.

Tommy Humphries

Sent from my iPad

[sumi via Clayart]

Cyndy

sounds like you get west coast Laguna clays. I always used to use
Speckled Buff for beginners, but if you want a lighter colored clay body
you could try the one called 52 buff. Neither one is too groggy but both
have a bit of grog and they usually come pretty soft. Actually our
favorite all-purpose clay from Laguna is one called Whitestone but it is
a special order clay and apparently the only place that orders it is
Stone Leaf Pottery here in Colorado, where it is their most popular clay.

Sumi

[sumi via Clayart]

MGordon

not a cone 6 clay. also rather groggy.

Sumi

[Randall Moody via Clayart]

Highwater Clays' Phoenix is a good choice also. It is a cone 10 clay
though. Throws well, good for handbuilding and raku.

--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com

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[Cyndy Shorter via Clayart]

I have used Phoenix for wood firing too. In the studio we only fire to cone
6 for clients. Do you think it will vitrify well at a lower temperature?

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[Sharon Wetherby via Clayart]

I agree. Randy Brodnax uses it because it will withstand the stress he
puts on it. I bought some and hated it. Gave it all away. It was way too
stiff and groggy to wedge unless a person has huge, strong arms like Randy
does.

Sharon Wetherby

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[MGordon via Clayart]

Sumi, It may seem groggy to a porcelain potter but it's not groggy at
all to me & I use Soldate 60 for low fire C/05-06, glazes and C/5-6
glaze all the time even though it's a C/10 clay.No problems ever. Mike
Gordon

[sumi via Clayart]

Mike

Just if Cyndy's students were complaining about other clays being too
groggy I figured they'd object to this one. What is the absorbency of
Soldate 60 at cone 6?

Sumi

[Cyndy Shorter via Clayart]

Mike,
I use soldate 60 for raku and saggar firings. I find it easy to work with
for those applications. I have a couple of boxes and will give it a go. I
just picked up Laguna wc 605#55 and highwater desert buff, to try out as
well.
On May 4, 2016 7:15 AM, "sumi via Clayart" <cla...@lists.clayartworld.com>
wrote:

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[Paul Gerhold via Clayart]

Best to just realize that there is no single clay that will please everyone. That is why there are hundreds of commercial clays available and then there are the potters that develop their own bodies. Just pick the body you think is best and then give the whiners a list of clays they can purchase and bring to class.

Paul

Sent from my iPad

[Randall Moody via Clayart]

Probably not fully vitrified but close. I don't see the need to have the
clay fully vitrified if it is a sculptural piece.

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[Cyndy Shorter via Clayart]

Paul, that is definitely food for thought!

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[John Post via Clayart]

A community college in my area had one clay body in their studio. Only one.
Students could not fire any other clay bodies in the kilns there.
You had to use what the college made - and the hundreds of potters who took classes
or used the program as their studio all survived and made art and pots with that one clay.
Everyone adapted to it.

An incentive for having your own studio is so that you can do whatever you want in your own space.
You get to choose the clay, the kilns, the tools and the process.

Community centers can be a great place to learn about clay. But at some point it is just as important to
take control of your own work and wean yourself away from it towards independence and ownership.

John Post

On May 4, 2016, at 9:53 AM, Cyndy Shorter via Clayart wrote:

Best to just realize that there is no single clay that will please everyone.

[Alice DeLisle via Clayart]

Cyndy,

I use Highwater’s Buncombe White. It is a buff stoneware. I am primarily a hand-builder and it works well for that, and also throws well. It has kyanite for tooth but is not groggy. It does not make good tiles because it is almost impossible to get it to stay flat as a single slab, but I guess no clay is perfect for all applications. In addition, it is important to fire it to cone 6 to get it vitrified. At cone 5 it will seep.

Good luck,
Alice DeLisle

wande...@att.net
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alice_delisle/
https://www.facebook.com/IslandTexturesAliceDeLisle

> On May 2, 2016, at 3:29 PM, clayart...@lists.clayartworld.com wrote:
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 13:28:38 -0400
> From: Cyndy Shorter <shor...@gmail.com <mailto:shor...@gmail.com>>
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
> <cla...@lists.clayartworld.com <mailto:cla...@lists.clayartworld.com>>
> Subject: [Clayart] Before I pull my hair out
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>
> Maybe the open studio clients are spoiled, but I am asking for your
> educated and experienced guidance. I teach pottery and run a studio for a
> non-profit art school. The issue is finding a clay body which will please
> most.......if that is possible. The B-mix was "too much like porcelain" (I
> don't think any of them have tried to work with porcelain) and "hurts their
> wrists". The Little Loafers is "too sticky", " hard to hand-build with" and
> "hard for beginners". The Standard 553 warm buff is "too groggy". I've
> tried 5 different ^6 commercial clay bodies in the past 6 months. Can any
> of you recommend a ^6 commercial stoneware that is a good all-round clay
> for throwing and hand-building?

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[David Woof via Clayart]

Hi Cyndy,
Save for a few Gems, the larger number of open studio clients are a lazy group of malcontents who don't want to invest in the time and expense to create their own studio space at home, or historically couldn't share studio space with anyone else, least of all a best friend!
They will always be angling for an opening to change things but will never be satisfied no matter which way you bend to please them.

So be in charge! Choose what you know and learn as you go.
You must be a hard ass in this regard to protect yourself, the success of the school, and the others who depend on the services you provide.

Incidentally, most clay suppliers have a coded numbering system, at least 1 to 4, for how soft the clay in the bag will come to you. Most suppliers will send several 10# bags of samples when they determine you are a prospective new client.

And if your complaining folk's wrists can't manage the softer clay they aren't going to like grog either. For these unfortunate folks, (but for God's grace I may someday be there as well) Go down to Good Will and buy some cheap ceramic dinner plates, or pre- fired floor tiles, and hand these folks a box of ceramic chalks and pencils and spray a thin coat of an 04 clear over their finished drawings and colorings. Some folks just need to be edified, amused, entertained....... so help them get what they need and maybe even a bit of what they think they want.

In My World; (how I run things now and in past) the admission to the Open Studio is predicated on that person first attending a clay classes term of instruction, and while attending, demonstrating a willingness to learn and apply, following safety and conduct rules, playing well with others, being versed/responsible in the care of studio equipment, and *NOT* using the studio for a personal pottery business venture. Thus vetted, they are welcomed into the open studio. Open studio then becomes a cherished and respected.privilege, predicated on continued supporting of the rules and mission of the "institution." Dedication to quality, not quantity, protects all.


Usually the work produced by such ones are substandard by any serious reckoning and would only give you and your studio/school a bad name if connected with such one. Offer these wanna-be production folks a class and offer to assist and advise in setting up their own production studio.
Send them to Clayart.....see if they are willing to take advice, teachable, or just full of arrogant bull.....

*****Supplying both a red and a white body in the same cone range increases the options; limited only by lack of creative imagination and questioning what would happen if.............?

Recycling the scrap from both clay bodies together opens another gift of surprise clay bodies for the curious and intrepid. One can also throw in all sorts of sands, grogs, shots of scrap glaze.......paper slop......dog hair and barber shop clippings........sawdust........have some fun, *Serious play*

Best wishes on your venture/adventure in dealing with these issues.

David
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[Kathryn Stecker via Clayart]

Let's face it folks. This person is teaching at a studio with lots of
students. She needs a clay that is vitrified at Cone six! The first thing
beginners all seem to want to make is a mug. Of course Soldate or Phoenix
are great clays but they are not vitrified enough at that cone for mugs and
vases. I am lately having a bit of a problem with leaking Cone 5-6 clays
when tested overnight so I am quite sensitive on this issue. Cone packs
will be placed in the digital kilns to test at the art center. Sigh maybe
time to do the firing at home for more control of variables, although there
are knowledgeable people there.

Bottom line, keep the clays you think are the best, a light color and one
with a little more grog and color. The ones you know your glazes work with
and as someone else said let the student choose on your list of other
acceptable clays if they are unhappy. Make them fully aware that the glazes
may not fit and have them test for leakage by filling a mug with water and
sitting it overnight on a couple of paper towels on their kitchen counter.
Make it their responsibility and learning experience. If you add an extra
charge on your clay at the studio and you have them pick up their own clay,
make sure you add a charge for glaze materials etc for that extra charge
you lose when they buy their own.

Perhaps the people who felt their clay was to hard just needed to cut the
clay into slabs dip in water , let sit overnight and rewedge. Slam that bag
on the floor on all four sides to soften first then check if it doesn't
wedge well. Stiff clay is hard on my wrists. Clay from the manufacturer can
be too dry or too wet. If too wet, slice up, let sit in the air for awhile,
rewedge.

Rave over.

Kathy Stecker

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