[Clayart] Cremation

[Spiderhole Pottery]

I may have to have my cat put down this week. I would like to cremate her in my kiln, but I'm not sure to which cone to fire. Also, my kiln is in my basement. It has an Envirovent exhaust, but I'm concerned it might still stink up the house.

Any advice from those who have done this?

Jeannean :o(
From soggy Astoria, Oregon
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[Benjamin Kant]

Jeannean,

If I may say so, this is definitely crazy and should not be done.
Envirovent - that means you are planning to bake your cat in an electric
oven basically? Without a furnace? Not a good idea! Give it up and stick
to pottery, and if you need some bone ash, buy it at the store.

Give your cat a chance in the afterlife and bury it nicely with some music
or something... But your electric kiln is not for cremation; if nothing
else, think of the elements.

Ben Kant

[douglas fur]

Jeanean

As I recall traditional cremations have outdoor settings. Funeral pyres in
India, Viking europe are pictured out of doors.
Instead of the technical issues I'd consider the purpose of the ritual.
Being out and exposed to the greater world and returning the earthy body to
that world. (There is a beautiful scene in Sometimes a Great Notion of a
deer swimming out to sea on a river's current...) A burning viking boat set
adrift would upset the Coast Guard, but if you enlisted their help..??

In all I think a beach fire would be simplistic and at sunset quite
beautiful.

DRB
Seola Creek
On Nov 19, 2013 8:50 AM, "Spiderhole Pottery" <spiderho...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Lee]

It could possibly ruin your elements in your electric kiln.

--
--
Lee 李 Love in Longfellow,Minneapolis, MN USA

"Ta tIr na n-óg ar chul an tI—tIr dlainn trina chéile"—that is, "The land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue

[Vince Pitelka]

Jeannean wrote:
"I may have to have my cat put down this week. I would like to cremate her
in my kiln, but I'm not sure to which cone to fire. Also, my kiln is in my
basement. It has an Envirovent exhaust, but I'm concerned it might still
stink up the house. Any advice from those who have done this?"

Hi Jeannean -
Probably not because I cannot imagine that anyone has ever done this in an
electric kiln, ESPECIALLY in their basement. My prediction is that it would
stink up your house to a degree you cannot possibly imagine, and that it
would likely ruin the kiln and at least burn out the elements. Pay to have
the cremation done right, or better yet, take the deceased kitty out on the
beach and have your own cremation bonfire.
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpit...@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/

[Dorothy Parshall]

You have gotten some good advice about NOT using the kiln and the
sensible - do it outside!

A friend and I cremated my dog in winter in Ontario. The ground was
frozen. We built a funeral pyre of dead wood from along the road and
it took a few hours. It was a monumental experience involving the full
moon coming up and using sage on the fire, and a celebratory meal
after. But we could not have done it if I had not lived back a dirt
road where there were no neighbours to be offended, or if there had
not been a good supply of dry wood. If you can find the right spot, I
recommend this send off for your friend.

Dorothy, Quebec

On Nov 19, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Spiderhole Pottery wrote:

>
> Any advice from those who have done this?

[jonathan byler]

regardless of that, yes, it is most likely going to stink up the place. The envirovent won't be able to handle the amount of stuff you are burning in there. there's a surprising amount of "fuel" and energy in a cat sized package. try throwing a single corn chip into a raku kiln sometime and you will see. Definitely a job for a fuel kiln, and definitely a job that is NOT suited to doing in your basement electric kiln.

If I were to do this, though, I would take it to someone with a fuel fired kiln, and build a box to put the cat in out of clay. cook it to about 1400-1500F maybe? Anything over 8-900F ought to easily break down the whole body into ash, but I'm just speculating here. try googling cremation and see what you find out. they have specific temperatures and times they are required to do for human cremation, I'm sure you could do similar with an animal and have good results. If you learn anything more, let us know. I've always thought a pet crematorium where your kitty/dog/hamster gets turned into ash and then made into a glaze on an urn or a cup would be a great business opportunity for potters.

[Joan Klotz]

Jeannean, When one of my cats had to go I took
her to the vet who asked me if I would like to
have the ashes. Perhaps you might find a kindly
vet who would be willing to do the same for your cat.

Joan

> I may have to have my cat put down this week.
> I would like to cremate her > in my kiln, but
> I'm not sure to which cone to fire. Also, my
> kiln is in my > basement. It has an Envirovent
> exhaust, but I'm concerned it might still >
> stink up the house. > > Any advice from those
> who have done this? > > Jeannean :o( > From
> soggy Astoria, Oregon >
> _______________________________________________
> > Clayart mailing list >
> Cla...@ceramicist.org > Make changes to your
> subscription, or unsubscribe, at: >
> http://lists.ceramicist.org/mailman/listinfo/clayart

> > -- -- Lee æ Ž Love in
> Longfellow,Minneapolis, MN USA "Ta tIr na n-óg
> ar chul an tI—tIr dlainn trina chéile"—that
> is, "The land of eterternal youth is behind the

> house, a beautiful land fluent within itself."
> -- John O'Donohue
> _______________________________________________
> Clayart mailing list Cla...@ceramicist.org
> Make changes to your subscription, or
> unsubscribe, at: http://lists.ceramicist.org/mailman/listinfo/clayart

[pdp1]

Hi Jeannean,


Cremations of this kind would be best done in the Out of Doors, and, in a
light Breeze to carry away the Smoke.

A Gas Kiln would of course work perfectly, and or is no different in any way
really, than a conventional Crematory Retort, as far as how it would perform
the Task, and or be managed for the task.

An Electric Kiln is not suited to the task or to the conditions the task has
going for it, particularly as Liquids in the Cadaver 'cook out' and pool in
the early phases, unless you were to use a Roasting Pan or something, for
the Liquids to Boil out into, and to then evaporate or Boil away out of, as
the temps continue to rise....and, then managing the considerable Smoke
which will begin once one is some ways into the upper 400s of Fahrenheit and
up from there as things climb, would not be something an electric Kiln is
suited for.


Ideally a Cadaver which is slated for Cremation, will be the easiest to
Cremate, if it is pretty much completely dried out or desiccated before
hand, which in 'Soggy Astoria, Oregon', might not be easy or convenient to
accomplish.

Here in the Southern Mojave Desert, a smaller Cadaver allowed to repose at
leisure, will generally desiccate in a few weeks, or sooner, depending on
how large or thick it is, and, time of year, or Weather pro-tem.



There are some general ratios of how much Hardwood ( or BTUs, anyway ) one
needs, to properly Cremate such-and-such a weight of a normally Hydrated or
non-desiccated Cadaver.

Average Cat, will likely be something like about ten Pounds of dry Hardwood,
or maybe twelve or fifteen pounds, but, I doubt it would be any less than
ten anyway.

I am only guessing on that, since I have never Cremated a Cat or other
Creature of that size.

I Have Cremated numerous Birds who weighed about 2/3rds of a Pound tops, or
less, who had died of illness or injury, being ones I had not been able to
save, in my Bird Rescue-Rehab occupation, so, I am speaking from my
experience with that.



Temps achieved in a properly regulated and sufficient-duration Wood Fire,
will result in perfectly clean, white Bones remaining, and is thus perfectly
suited for a deferentially considerate and tidy outcome.

The resulting Bones even though somewhat frail, are typically still plenty
strong enough to be handled normally ( or, if one wanted, to be assembled
into a complete Skeleton even ).



Phil
Las Vegas

[Snail Scott]

On Nov 19, 2013, at 12:10 PM, douglas fur wrote:
> ...I think a beach fire would be simplistic and at sunset quite
> beautiful...

Beautiful but stinky, and it's got to be one hell of a hot
fire to actually cremate completely. The average sort of
campfire won't cut it. Half-incinerated, carbonized meat
isn't what most people want to remember, and right
from the outset there's the smell of burning hair. Funeral
pyres look great on film, but the reality is a bit nasty. If
you go this route, be in a remote area, and have a lot of
fuel on hand!

If you do go the kiln-fire route, remember that even
professionally cremated remains don't come out as a
refined grey powder like you get back from a mortician.
The bone has got to be crushed up, even after firing, or
it will pretty much retain its form. If you are keeping the
cremains, they'll be pretty bulky unless you do. Do you
have the stomach for crushing your pet's bones with a
baseball bat or brick in a metal can? They crush up
easily enough, but it's not pleasant.

If using a kiln, I would avoid using anything but a fuel-
fired kiln. An indoor Envirovent just isn't up to that much
removal unless the remains are well-saggared, and if
they are you won't be getting enough oxygen to the
remains to really burn them up well.

-Snail

[Dorothy Parshall]

My friend and I did consider Snail's concerns. We did not wish to end
up with roasted dog. We were in the Ontario bush with LOTS of dry
wood. We had a large clearing in which to work, a half mile from the
nearest neighbour. We did build a pyre first. She was about a 50 pound
dog. My friend lifted her to the top of the strong pile of dry wood.
We knew we would have to keep on keeping on until there was naught but
bone/ash left. We stayed up wind at the outset. It was worth every
bit of the effort. It is a beautiful memory for me of my 14 year
companion, a dog who was so well known, and cared for, amongst our
friends that when they wrote, they would inquire about her. In fact,
my friend travelled over 60 miles to share this - trip to the,
supportive, vet and then bringing her home to rise to the sky on the
smoke. This is not for the faint of heart but it was a monumental
experience. In the morning, I scraped up the small pile of ashes -
not even a bucket full. They were sprinkled on the hillside where she
had sat to watch the world in her last years.
Dorothy

On Nov 20, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Snail Scott wrote:

>
> Beautiful but stinky, and it's got to be one hell of a hot
> fire to actually cremate completely. The average sort of
> campfire won't cut it. Half-incinerated, carbonized meat
> isn't what most people want to remember, and right
> from the outset there's the smell of burning hair. Funeral
> pyres look great on film, but the reality is a bit nasty. If
> you go this route, be in a remote area, and have a lot of
> fuel on hand!

[douglas fur]

Dorothy
I think your and Scott's comments on the importance of a large enough fire
are well put. I looked up images of Indian funeral pyres on Google.
The successful ones seem to be, in length and width, larger than the height
of the corpse and a bit less tall. A dense platform of split logs, a hand's
breadth across, is built up in several layers. The corpse rests on this bed
and a shell of vertical staves is built up, also in several layers. The
staves looked 1"-3" thick and at least four feet long, the height of the
pyre.
This could be scaled down remembering a smaller fire will be
proportionately larger as it has more surface area per unit volume.
I'm also glad that your ritual was successful and a cherished memory.

DRB
Seola Creek

some of the nicest persons I've known have been cats

[Lee]

Also, you need to know: After cremation, the bones are primarily intact.
Not really ashes They are punky and the crematory grinds them into
"ash. When my zen teacher died, some of the students took turns
"grinding" his bones.
I have a box of my late Akita's bones. In Japan, they do not
grind the cremains. When I brought in the urn I kept for her, the
cremation place said her skull would not fit into the opening.

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Spiderhole Pottery <
spiderho...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
--
Lee 李 Love in Longfellow,Minneapolis, MN USA

"Ta tIr na n-óg ar chul an tI—tIr dlainn trina chéile"—that is, "The land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within

itself." -- John O'Donohue

[Dorothy Parshall]

We must have done an exceptional job of our cremation. There were only
tiny bits of bone amongst the ashes. Certainly nothing to be upset
about. It's all in how one does the job.
Dorothy

On Nov 22, 2013, at 2:39 AM, Lee wrote:

> Also, you need to know: After cremation, the bones are primarily
> intact.

[Peggy Thompson]

I do not always appreciate my husband's version of potter's spouse's jokes.
Ever since I built my big gas downdraft kiln, a time back, at parties he
always brings up that were he to disappear that they should check my
kiln.One time was bad enough but it has always been his joke despite our
celebrating our 50th anniversary this year.
Maybe I should tell them his last project in his wood shop was a coffin.NOT.
A little late for Halloween.
Margaret
On Nov 21, 2013 5:54 PM, "Carl Finch" <Barkin...@q.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 08:19:43 -0600, Snail Scott wrote:
>
> If you do go the kiln-fire route, remember that even
>> professionally cremated remains don't come out as a
>> refined grey powder like you get back from a mortician.
>> The bone has got to be crushed up, even after firing, or
>> it will pretty much retain its form. If you are keeping the
>> cremains, they'll be pretty bulky unless you do. Do you
>> have the stomach for crushing your pet's bones with a
>> baseball bat or brick in a metal can? They crush up
>> easily enough, but it's not pleasant.
>>
>

> For a look-see, check out this screen shot from the excellent
> 2008 movie, Cherry Blossoms:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/clayart
>
> I knew what remained needed some crushing,
> but had no idea just how much!
>
> Carl Finch
> Medford, Oregon
>
> P.S. This Flickr site was generously set up by Holly Kilpatrick
> several years ago. Below are her instructions, slightly updated,
> for our use of it:
>
> Instructions for posting photos to Flickr Clayart site:
>>
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>> Holly Kilpatrick

[Hank Murrow]

On Nov 22, 2013, at 6:41 AM, Dorothy Parshall <doro...@whidbey.com> wrote:

> We must have done an exceptional job of our cremation. There were only tiny bits of bone amongst the ashes. Certainly nothing to be upset about. It's all in how one does the job.

My old friend and partner in The PotShop in Venice CA wanted something ceramic done with her remains, so I ball milled everything in the box and used it in a recipe I call Cory's Weird. This glaze requires 32% bone ash, which is what human remains are. The glaze turned out wonderful and her daughter made some trivets and glazed them with my new Cory&Jane glaze along with several of my bisqued plates. The design was a Sun/Face done with Fe/Ru oxide mix brushed on the glaze. Turned out beauifully and Jane's closest friends got the trivets, and Daughter got two plates and some tiles for her kitchen. Win/win for all who loved her. I got the bucket of glaze and the 'best' plate, which we serve things on occasionally.

See it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/clayart/10997743974/

Cheers, Hank in Eugene