CIHT

[kmarinas86]

http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlackLightHydrinoElectricity112910.htm

Notwithstanding all previous speculation about the acronym's meaning:

"Cranbury, NJ (November 29, 2010)—BlackLight Power, Inc. (BLP) today
announced that CIHT (Catalyst-Induced-Hydrino-Transition) technology
has been independently confirmed by Dr. K.V. Ramanujachary, Rowan
University Meritorious Professor of Chemistry and Biochemistry."

CIHT stands for "Catalyst-Induced-Hydrino-Transition".

the END (of that).

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Nov 29, 9:39 pm, kmarinas86 <kmarina...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlackLightHydrinoElec...

> CIHT stands for "Catalyst-Induced-Hydrino-Transition".
>
> the END (of that).

Well at least we know what the acronym stands for, but we are still
pretty much in the dark as to how they generate electricity from this.

It does however suggest the the chemically generated heat in the
other
Rowan paper will never be used to produce a single watt of electricity
on a commercial basis. That is IF they can deliver on this still
mysterious
Catalyst Induced Hydrino Transition technology.

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

Ashtonmiller, correct me if I am wrong but I was reading on the BLP
site and I thought there were 3 different methods of producing power.
I think the CIHT method may not require a heat turbine. I still thing
someone was right when they said it was a megnetodynamic system -- its
an electric process. I read something about this in the new validation
papers as well.

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Nov 29, 11:49 pm, Charlie_VelvetPoster <CharlesJen...@cox.net>
wrote:
> ...
> I think the CIHT method may not require a heat turbine. ...

That much was implied. What is missing is how, and how efficiently,
they generate electricity directly.
IF this can be done, it should be a lot more efficient than using heat
to drive a turbine which I believe is only about 30% efficient. That
is why I expect the process described in the Rowan paper is not going
to lead to any commercial power generation. It makes no sense to go
through the process of boiling water to spin a turbine to turn an
alternator if you can generate electricity more efficiently
directly.

Bob

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

> It makes no sense to go
> through the process of boiling water to spin a turbine to turn an
> alternator if you can generate electricity more efficiently
> directly.

Hi Bob,

What if you already have a power plant built though? Then wouldn't it
make more sense to use the heat generating method and retrofit rather
than buy or lease a whole new system?

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Nov 30, 10:16 am, Charlie_VelvetPoster <CharlesJen...@cox.net>
wrote:

Good question. At this point we can only speculate on an answer. I
guess it depends on the cost of the alternative versus the cost of
building a hydrino powered boiler.
If the $25/KW figure quoted by BLP is accurate at some reasonable
scale, it might well be cheaper to build a 1GW CIHT plant than to
convert a boiler.

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

Did they have any price estimates of the heat/turbine process before?
If they did and took them down that might be a good indicator you are
right about them just abandoning that whole system.

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

Just found on the BLP site they still have information about the
regenerative solid fuel system and turbine system in their tech
presentations.

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

Does anyone happen to have a link to the patent that would cover the
CIHT tech for BLP?

[kmarinas86]

On Dec 1, 7:57 pm, Charlie_VelvetPoster <CharlesJen...@cox.net> wrote:
> Does anyone happen to have a link to the patent that would cover the
> CIHT tech for BLP?

"blacklight power"
http://www.google.com/patents?q=%22blacklight+power%22

"randell * mills"
http://www.google.com/patents?q=%22randell+*+mills%22

"randell * mills" plasma reactor
http://www.google.com/patents?q=%22randell+*+mills%22+plasma+reactor

[APPLICATION] Hydrogen power, plasma, and reactor for lasing, and
power conversion
US Pat. 10494571 - Filed May 6, 2004
... PLASMA, AND REACTOR FOR LASING, AND POWER CONVERSION (76)
Inventor: Randell
L Mills, Cranbury, NJ (US) Correspondence Address: MANELLI DENISON &
SELTER ...
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=ERifAAAAEBAJ

[APPLICATION] Hydrogen power, plasma and reactor for lasing, and power
conversion
US Pat. 12230547 - Filed Aug 29, 2008
6, 2009 (54) HYDROGEN POWER, PLASMA AND REACTOR FOR LASING, AND POWER
CONVERSION
(75) Inventor: Randell L. Mills, Cranbury, NJ (US) Correspondence
Address: ...
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=wQvUAAAAEBAJ

[APPLICATION] Plasma reactor and process for producing lower-energy
hydrogen species
US Pat. 10552585 - Filed Apr 8, 2004
... FOR PRODUCING LOWER-ENERGY HYDROGEN SPECIES (76) Inventor: Randell
L. Mills,
... ABSTRACT This invention relates to a reactor to generate power,
plasma, ...
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=1muZAAAAEBAJ

[APPLICATION] Microwave power cell, chemical reactor, and power
converter
US Pat. 10469913 - Filed Sep 5, 2003
Randell L. Mills, P. Ray, B. Dhandapani, ... R. Mills, T. Onuma, and
Y. Lu, "
Formation of a Hydrogen Plasma from an Incandescently Heated Hydrogen-
Catalyst
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=UFySAAAAEBAJ

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

Thank you Kmarinas! You are so thorough! :)

[slider123456]

I wonder if CIHT might use something similar to the Ruthenium, Cobalt
water splitting processes which IIRC use UV light and catalysts to
split water in an attempt at artificial photosynthesis. This has
become a hot area of research in the last ten years. I am not sure if
this would be fast enough process to create the needed power but if
Mills theory is closer to reality than the current conventional
theories he may have some insight into this process that makes it
feasible.

On Dec 1, 6:47 pm, kmarinas86 <kmarina...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 1, 7:57 pm, Charlie_VelvetPoster <CharlesJen...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone happen to have a link to the patent that would cover the
> > CIHT tech for BLP?
>
> "blacklight power"http://www.google.com/patents?q=%22blacklight+power%22
>
> "randell * mills"http://www.google.com/patents?q=%22randell+*+mills%22
>

> "randell * mills" plasma reactorhttp://www.google.com/patents?q=%22randell+*+mills%22+plasma+reactor

>
> [APPLICATION] Hydrogen power, plasma, and reactor for lasing, and
> power conversion
> US Pat. 10494571 - Filed May 6, 2004
> ... PLASMA, AND REACTOR FOR LASING, AND POWER CONVERSION (76)
> Inventor: Randell
> L Mills, Cranbury, NJ (US) Correspondence Address: MANELLI DENISON &

> SELTER ...http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=ERifAAAAEBAJ

>
> [APPLICATION] Hydrogen power, plasma and reactor for lasing, and power
> conversion
> US Pat. 12230547 - Filed Aug 29, 2008
> 6, 2009 (54) HYDROGEN POWER, PLASMA AND REACTOR FOR LASING, AND POWER
> CONVERSION
> (75) Inventor: Randell L. Mills, Cranbury, NJ (US) Correspondence

> Address: ...http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=wQvUAAAAEBAJ

>
> [APPLICATION] Plasma reactor and process for producing lower-energy
> hydrogen species
> US Pat. 10552585 - Filed Apr 8, 2004
> ... FOR PRODUCING LOWER-ENERGY HYDROGEN SPECIES (76) Inventor: Randell
> L. Mills,
> ... ABSTRACT This invention relates to a reactor to generate power,

> plasma, ...http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=1muZAAAAEBAJ

[slider123456]

I am not %100 sure these would apply but according to wikipedia:

NaTaO3:La

NaTaO3:La yields the highest water splitting rate of photocatalysts
demonstrated as of October 2008 without using sacrificial reagents.[1]
This UV-based photocatalyst was shown to be highly effective with
water splitting rates of 9.7 mmol/h and a quantum yield of 56%. The
nanostep structure of the material promotes water splitting as edges
functioned as H2 production sites and the grooves functioned as O2
production sites. Addition of NiO particles as co-catalysts assisted
in H2 production; this step was done by using an impregnation method
with an aqueous solution of Ni(NO3)2•6H2O and evaporating the solution
in the presence of the photocatalyst. NaTaO3 has a conduction band
higher than that of NiO, so photogenerated electrons are more easily
transferred to the conduction band of NiO for H2 evolution.

Then there is this paper:

Enhanced photocatalytic water splitting hydrogen production on RuO2/
La:NaTaO3 prepared by sol–gel method

which is much more efficient and says that "RuO2/La:NaTaO3 catalyst
activity is 25 times greater than that obtained with La:NaTaO3." Could
this be a part of CIHT?

[mockan1]

On Nov 29, 8:45 pm, ashtonrsmiller <rmil...@storm.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 29, 9:39 pm, kmarinas86 <kmarina...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlackLightHydrinoElec...
> > CIHT stands for "Catalyst-Induced-Hydrino-Transition".
>
> > the END (of that).
>
> Well at least we know what the acronym stands for, but we are still
> pretty much in the dark as to how they generate electricity from this.

The CIHT is a mostly solid state design derived from the AMTEC
generator.
(AMTEC descibed here:http://www.mpoweruk.com/amtec.htm.)
It is however NOT the AMTEC. Instead a "p" alumina Na ion conductor
separates (2) compartments.
The "anode" compartment has the NaH hydrino reaction, releasing Na
ions and electrons.
The "cathode" compartment has electrons recombining with Na ions that
have passed through
the ion conductor, after passing through an external electric circuit.
Essentially the hydrino
reaction using NaH as catalyst provides Na ions, while generating
hydrino waste product that
is discarded from the system. New hydrogen is reacted with the sodium
vapor emitting from
the surface of the "p" alumina ion conductor in the "cathode"
compartment. The separation of
the electrons from the hydrino plasma in the "anode" compartment for
passing through the
external circuit is by having a p-type semiconductor electrode on the
backside of the
compartment. In summary, Na ions pass through the ion conductor, and
electrons pass into
and through the p-type semiconductor. These (2) electrodes with the
hydrino reaction space and
sodium vapor reaction space are stacked to provide higher voltage than
the 1.6 nominal per cell.
Hydrino reaction chemistry also provides the heat to keep the CIHT at
elevated temperature
for better ion conductivity.
The materials problems with this design are great, as both electrodes
are affected by the atomic
hydrogen as it is formed and consumed. Efficiency in a commercial unit
would probably be
comparable to the AMTEC. Perhaps 30%.

[ashtonrsmiller]

Thanks, this makes sense. Do you know this for certain or are you
making an educated guess here?

That being correct, it isn't really direct conversion so much as a
heat engine powered by a reaction such as those tested by the Rowan
group. That leaves the issue of regenerating the halide salt and the
reducing agent on a continuous basis. There is still some very
impressive engineering to be disclosed.

Also at 700C the 'cold sink' in the AMTEK is still hot enough to power
a steam or Stirling engine.

[Robert Mockan]

BLP has not published their design. My comments are an educated guess based on
studying their patent literature, other published articles, and some of their
conferences.
Variables applied to reach my conclusion are the fields of research the BLP
scientists have previously worked in, the fact that charge separation in the
hydrino formation process happens with the catalyst, that BLP would use as much
previous developed technology in related fields as was applicable, the BLP
statement that the CIHT is largely solid state (thus ruling out the plasma
dynamic converter with magnetized electrodes in plasma to generate a potential
difference between electrodes and current when an external load is connected),
the BLP research on using sodium hydride as a catalyst, the BLP statements about
using reducing agents in their solid fuels to remove the electrons from the
reaction zone that would otherwise inhibit progressive hydrino formation
reaction kinetics, and so on. The CIHT evidently does NOT utilize hydrino
hydride ion chemical compounds, thus is NOT the hoped for high energy density
battery based on charge shuttling that BLP has alluded to researching. I surmise
the AMTEC derived design might be first generation, with improvements to the BLP
battery concept dependent on more research into hydrino hydride ion chemistry.

Robert

[mockan1]

On Dec 5, 8:13 am, ashtonrsmiller <rmil...@storm.ca> wrote:

> That being correct, it isn't really direct conversion so much as a
> heat engine powered by a reaction such as those tested by the Rowan
> group.  That leaves the issue of regenerating the halide salt and the
> reducing agent on a continuous basis.  

> Also at 700C the 'cold sink' in the AMTEK is still hot enough to power

> a steam or Stirling engine.- Hide quoted text -
>

Not exactly. As a heat engine the AMTEC converts available work from
the isothermal expansion of the working fluid (Na vapor) across a
pressure differential with final system pressure and temperature
lower than initial but above sodium melting point.
The pressure and temperature strips an electron away from the sodium
atom in the anode compartment and the subsequent ion goes into the ion
conductor while the electron goes into the conductor band of the
anode metal electrode to pass through an external load circuit, then
to the other side of the ion conductor where it combines with a sodium
ion forming sodium atoms again, at lower pressure and temperature.
That is a heat engine.

The CIHT uses the hydrino process to generate the sodium ion and
electron, not pressure or temperature (although the catalyst NaH does
require a temperature sufficient to provide moloecular vapor). The
purpose of the other chemicals in the solid fuel THERMAL REACTOR is to
provide a high concentration of atomic hydrogen for high collision
rate with the catalyst thus maximizing the resonant shrinkage and
disproportionation reactions, AND to enhance the rate constant
dependent on removing electrons and ions from the reaction zone as
quickly as formed to shift the reaction equilibrium to favor high
reaction rates. The
analogy of the CIHT to the AMTEC is that electrons and ions are
generated by the hydrino process, not heat supplied externally to the
system. Thus the CIHT is NOT a heat engine in the classical sense,
although temperature and pressure differences can contribute to a
small part of the net power output of a CIHT cell.

In a CIHT If one has an ion conductor layer that allows the flow of
sodium ions through it and a p-type (high temperature) semiconductor
separated by a small gap (comparable to what you might find in a
thermionic plasma diode electric generator, <<0.5 mm) with an ion
generating hydrino reaction in the gap based on the NaH catalyst
system, the ions will enter into the ion conductor, and the electrons
into the P-type semiconductor.
The electrons then flow through an external load circuit and combine
with sodium ions that have passed thorough the ion conductor layer to
form sodium metal. The chemicals other than NaH catalyst in the solid
fuel for the THERMAL REACTOR are thus not needed for the CIHT cell to
operate. (Using other chemicals to provide NaH regeneration might
still be preferable to other methods).

The point I'm trying to make is that the CIHT IS a direct converter,
rather than a heat engine.

Hope this explains more fully the design.

Robert

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

There is a pretty good description of the CIHT system here..

http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/MotivePower.pdf

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Dec 5, 3:15 pm, mockan1 <robert.moc...@att.net> wrote:
> ...

>
> In a CIHT If one has an ion conductor layer that allows the flow of
> sodium ions through it and a p-type (high temperature) semiconductor
> separated by a small gap (comparable to what you might find in a
> thermionic plasma diode electric generator, <<0.5 mm) with an ion
> generating hydrino reaction in the gap based on the NaH catalyst
> system, the ions will enter into the ion conductor, and the electrons
> into the P-type semiconductor.
> The electrons then flow through an external load circuit and combine
> with sodium ions that have passed thorough the ion conductor layer to
> form sodium metal. The chemicals other than NaH catalyst in the solid
> fuel for the THERMAL REACTOR are thus not needed for the CIHT cell to
> operate. (Using other chemicals to provide NaH regeneration might
> still be preferable to other methods).
>
> The point I'm trying to make is that the CIHT IS a direct converter,
> rather than a heat engine.
>
> Hope this explains more fully the design.
>
> Robert

Wow! That is an impressive bit of deduction. Thank you for sharing
it. I think I understand, but just to verify:

I am envisioning a stack of flat plates (I'm assuming significant
pressure isn't required) consisting of a metal plate (-ve electrode)
with a high temperature (silicon carbide?) semiconductor layer
applied to one side. The semiconductor layer is separated from
another flat plate of beta alumina by a few thousandths of an inch.
The opposite side of the beta alumina is coated with a porous
conductor (+ve electrode). By providing a porous conductive spacer
such as a fine screen to allow alkali metal gas to be evacuated, a
stack of these could be built to provide a usefully high voltage. The
sides of the stack would be sealed in such a manner as to allow
ingress of hydrogen and alkali metal vapour on one side and outflow of
alkali metal vapour on the other.

In operation the whole stack would be heated to a temperature
sufficient to dissociate some of the alkali metal hydride and the
hydrino catalysis iononizes the alkali metal with the electron going
into the semiconductor layer. The ion migrates through the beta
alumina, through the porous electrode, collects its missing electron
and flows out.

Can it really be that simple? Conceptually this is so simple that I
doubt I can have it right. Obviously there are some serious
engineering challenges in getting things to work reliably with a
reasonable lifetime at the temperatures involved.

One paper I read indicated that the AMTEC converters can generate an
open circuit voltage of 1.6 Volts and a current of 2A per square cm.
So a stack of a hundred cells deep at perhaps 3mm per cell and a foot
square could potentially generate 160 Volts (oc) and 900 Amps. More
than 100 KW, (assuming a low esr) more than enough to run a car from a
cubic foot of mostly ceramic. Wow! Obviously there has to be some
ancilliary equipment to generate the hydrogen, recycle the alkali
metal, and remove the evolved hydrino gas. (Any idea how that might
be done other than condensing it out in liquid nitrogen?)

The Rowan paper indicates that somewhat more energy is evolved in the
chemistry using potassium. Also, potassium hydride boils at 316 C
whereas sodium hydride decomposes at 800 C, so I would expect that
potassium would be used as the KH could be reconstituted outside the
cell and delivered to the cell as a gas.

[mockan1]

That is almost the design I envision. But rather than forming the
sodium hydride catalyst in the cell the catalyst would be formed
externally, vaporized, and would flow into the reaction space between
the plates of the cell. The reaction space at a higher temperature
maintains the vapor in molecular form, and atomic hydrogen released as
some of the sodium hydride decomposes would undergo the shrinkage
reaction by reacting with another molecule of sodium hydride (acting
as catalyst). The waste products would be hydrinos, sodium, and
unreacted hydrogen. The sodium and hydrogen would be reformed into
sodium hydride external to the cell. The only material entering the
cell would sodium hydride vapor.

Much of the BLP research for practical applications of the hydrino
process seems to be to increase the rate constant, by generating a
high concentration of atomic hydrogen and catalyst, with as much
contact as possible, and removing products quickly to keep the
equilibrium shifted to favor the shrinkage reaction. The solid fuels
accomplish that, but without charge separation and electron flow in an
external circuit.

The sodium ion conductor allows charge separation using the sodium
hydride catalyst system, because the sodium ions are single charged
after the hydrino reaction. But the other catalyst systems that BLP
has discussed generate double charged ions. Unfortunately there do not
seem to be any double ion conductors. That is also why a potassium
CIHT using available ion conductors would not work well, because the
potassium after the hydrino reaction forms a double charged ion. It
would need to recombine into a single charge ion to pass through a
potassium ion conductor ( AMTECS have been built using potassium
rather than sodium, but the CIHT is not an AMTEC). Less direct
conversion and more heat released in the hydrino reaction space would
result using a potassium based catalyst system.

Although the design of CIHT as described seems theoretically possible,
I would not be surprised if BLP eventually reveals a different
approach to charge separation. I continue to be amazed at their
developments, and the fact they publish as much data as they do.

Robert

> cell and delivered to the cell as a gas.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Bill]

Assuming the hypothesized method is what is going on, then how do you
"start the engine?"

In a stationary environment -- such as a power plant for a house or
commercial building -- starting will be relatively simple. Connect a
battery to some built-in heating coils and wait until the reaction
area comes up to temperature. That may be a matter of minutes,
depending on the thermal mass. That time delay, in a continuously
running environment, is unimportant.

But in an automobile, a starting delay that is measured in minutes
will probably not be acceptable. (When automobiles were first
beginning, steamers were more powerful and far more reliable. A
Steamer won one of the first Indianapolis 500 races.) But the time
required to heat the boiler was way too long for drivers that wanted
to "hop in and go."

So... what about the starting mechanism in a CIHT powered automobile?

All the best,

Bill

[Robert Mockan]

If the automobile used conventional rechargable batteries to heat the CIHT core,
maybe it could also use them to power the vehicle until the core was brought up
to operating temperature. Then the batteries recharge. Perhaps also for extra
power

during acceleration a conventional battery pack could provide boost current.

Robert

----- Original Message ----
From: Bill <sa...@flowerhut.com>
To: Classical Physics <classica...@googlegroups.com>

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

Does anyone have any idea how difficult it would be to fabricate a
little prototype used for a proof of concept of CIHT? Is there enough
info in the patents to make this?

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Dec 10, 5:09 pm, Bill <sa...@flowerhut.com> wrote:
> Assuming the hypothesized method is what is going on, then how do you
> "start the engine?"
>

> ...

>
> So... what about the starting mechanism in a CIHT powered automobile?
>
> All the best,
>
> Bill

Since the CIHT cell is likely to be run quite hot, it will have to be
well insulated. Possibly the best solution to this problem is to
insulate it really well and to keep it running at a power level
sufficient to maintain operating temperature.

Bob

[JohnEB]

The odds of us making something that would satisfy you are very slim.
John

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

John, am I hallucinating or did Mills mention a small demonstrator of
CIHT at one time? If it was something he thought was plausible to
make seems like it would be easy to fabricate. The concept seems
simple. Are the materials dangerous to work with?

It seems that the regenerative solid fuel wouldn't be that difficult
to make either.

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

We could also attempt this in secret so our results would have no
effect on Mills.

It's sad that this kind of thing would be considered a risk to Mills
-- someone trying to replicate his findings.

[JohnEB]

Charlie:

mockan1 said:
"The materials problems with this design are great, as both
electrodes
are affected by the atomic hydrogen as it is formed and consumed."

Many of the cold fusion problems were materials problems. Cold
fusion is real
but NO ONE says it is easy.

[Charlie_VelvetPoster]

John, if the materials issues aren't that great we could still have
enough energy to show an effect. Is the power produced by cold
fusion comparable to the BLP process? If it is a lot less that may be
why the materials issue is so significant there.

I was just thinking of a small device that produced it's own hydrogen
like a Hoffman apparatus and produced a small hydrino effect to power
a light large enough to show the excess energy produced - like a small
desktop Stirling.

[Bill]

> Since the CIHT cell is likely to be run quite hot, it will have to be
> well insulated.  Possibly the best solution to this problem is to
> insulate it really well and to keep it running at a power level
> sufficient to maintain operating temperature.
>
> Bob

This makes more sense than the storage battery approach, but don't
know how practical it might be to leave a fairly powerful "engine"
idling.

What about "bottling" the hydrino by products? They could then be
chemically burned -- like a pilot light -- but much hotter to start
the CIHT process.

On this theme, everything I have seen assumes that the hydrinos from a
BLP reactor will be allowed to just "drift away" to re-form as regular
Hydrogen.

But, as I understand the process, the reformation of Hydrinos into
Hydrogen is an endothermic one. Could this not be used for
refrigeration?

Imagine a device that:

1. Generates Electricity
2. Heats the space.
3. Cools the space

Possible?

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Dec 10, 9:48 pm, Charlie_VelvetPoster <CharlesJen...@cox.net>
wrote:

> Does anyone have any idea how difficult it would be to fabricate a
> little prototype used for a proof of concept of CIHT?  Is there enough
> info in the patents to make this?

If you have a vacuum system and equipment to deposit films using
evaporation and/or sputtering, it would probably not be all that
difficult. BUT ...
We are (or at least I am) thus far only speculating about the possible
configuration of BLP's CIHT process based on mockan1's Dec 05 post.
Assuming the speculation is close, there is undoubtedly some critical
materials engineering to be done to make a working prototype. Even
more engineering will be required to make something that will work
reliably with a long lifetime in an environment of high temperature
hydrogen.

For a basic CIHT cell, you would have to make two relatively simple
sub-assemblies. The first would consist of a thin square or
rectangular alumina plate with a number of small holes drilled through
it and both sides coated, except for a space around the periphery,
with a metallic conductor (copper?) sufficient to carry a couple of
amps per square centimeter to one edge. The through holes would also
be filled with the conductor. One side of the plate would have a high
temperature p type semiconductor (silicon carbide?) sputtered over
the metallic layer. It may also be necessary to evaporate an
intermediate layer under the semiconductor to establish an ohmic
connection to the conductor. On two opposite uncoated edges, a non-
conductive spacer (quartz?) a few thousandths of an inch thick would
be fused to the ceramic.

The second sub-assembly would consist of another thin ceramic plate of
the same size but made of beta alumina. One side of this, except for
a similar gap around the edges, would be coated with a porous
conductive layer. (This might be done by evaporating an alloy layer
and chemically dissolving one component.?) A very thin conductive
corrugated sheet spring would be attached to this layer (beryllium
copper?) . A non-conductive spacer of thickness sufficient to allow
the corrugated spring to compress slightly would be fused to three
sides of the uncoated edge.

A basic cell would consist of the first plate mounted against the
second with the top being the positive plate and a metal plate
compressing the corrugated spring, the negative. Potassium hydride
(EG.) vapour would enter the gap between the two plates and that plus
hydrogen and hydrions would exit the opposite side. Potassium vapour
would exit the gap between the second plate and the metal plate. The
hydrino reaction would take place in the gap between two alumina
plates as described in mockan1's post.

A CHIT battery would consist of perhaps a hundred pairs of such cells
stacked in proper alignment and clamped together in a manner that
allows for thermal expansion. A plenum on one side would carry KH
into the stack, a plenum on the other would carry unreacted KH, H2 and
dihydrino gas out of the cell. A third plenum on one side would carry
K vapour out of the cell. Now all you need to do is to provide the
necessary KH gas to the cell, extract the dihydrino gas, add H2 gas to
reform the K gas to KH to replace that converted to hydrinos.

This is likely beyond the capabilities of most amateurs, but clearly
this could be relatively easily done in high volume by automated
equipment and for relatively low cost. But, if you can do that in
your basement workshop, go for it.

[ashtonrsmiller]

On Dec 11, 3:44 pm, Bill <sa...@flowerhut.com> wrote:
> > Since the CIHT cell is likely to be run quite hot, it will have to be
> > well insulated.  Possibly the best solution to this problem is to
> > insulate it really well and to keep it running at a power level
> > sufficient to maintain operating temperature.
>
> > Bob
>
> This makes more sense than the storage battery approach, but don't
> know how practical it might be to leave a fairly powerful "engine"
> idling.

That raises the larger questions of how the reaction will be
controlled and how the CIHT stack will be cooled.

I suspect that the CIHT stack will be operated at low pressures and
the reaction rate could be controlled by adjusting the pressure.
Depending on the efficiency they achieve, removal of waste heat could
be a big problem. Perhaps they would have to add an 'inert' gas to
that flowing through to carry away the excess heat. Keeping it warm
at 'idle' might not be much of a problem.

>
> What about "bottling" the hydrino by products? They could then be
> chemically burned -- like a pilot light -- but much hotter to start
> the CIHT process.
>

The dihydrino gas could be compressed and stored if it has commercial
value.

> On this theme, everything I have seen assumes that the hydrinos from a
> BLP reactor will be allowed to just "drift away" to re-form as regular
> Hydrogen.

IIRC, if vented to the atmosphere it would rise in the atmosphere and
escape. It would take a lot of energy input to have it re-form.

>
> But, as I understand the process, the reformation of Hydrinos into
> Hydrogen is an endothermic one. Could this not be used for
> refrigeration?
>
> Imagine a device that:
>
> 1. Generates Electricity
> 2. Heats the space.
> 3. Cools the space
>
> Possible?

IMO 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) only as a consequence of 1)

[mockan1]

I do not want to sound discouraging, but I also have a work shop and
you might be interested in some of the problems I've run into.
For example the beta-alumina
ionic conductors have different compositions depending on the ion.
Some of the ions used in experiments with beta-alumina are Li+, Ag+,
H+, Pb2+,Sr2+, Ba2+, K+, Na+, and so on. Unless you can buy off
the shelf the exact kind you need, heat treated and with the additives
needed for strength and chemical resistance in the environment you
plan
to use it, it probably will not function well, if at all. IF BLP is
using
them in their CHIT design, they have resources and funds to
experiment.
One of the reasons I did not continue with verifying my speculations
about the CHIT is the number of unknowns with the project. To verify
the BLP hydrino process I purchased a kilo each sodium metal,
strontium
pieces, magnesium shavings, iodine, titanium carbide powder. Those
are the ingredients for a BLP solid fuel composition. Mixing and
heating
under argon while measuring reaction temperature doesn't tell me how
well the reaction is going, although visibly there is a reaction. The
only
way to verify an energy gain is to build the Rowan apparatus, and use
it
to make similar measurements. Well, these kind of projects are not
cheap,
and they take a lot of time to set up. I've had the materials for a
year now,
and I still can not show conclusive data. And that is even with BLP
publishing enough information specifically to enable others to
duplicate their
findings about solid fuels for thermal reactors.
But they have not disclosed their CHIT design. I know from mu own
experience
that doing that as a project would be beyond my ability given all the
unknowns about the design. Regardless of motivation.
My interest obviously is the same as every one else. To use it. For
myself
If it really does produce electricity in a lightweight inexpensive
generator,
with low fuel cost, first thing I would do is put it in a motor boat.
Think
unlimited range to anywhere by sea. And using an electric motor to
power
a plane is not impossible if one has a lightweight power source. BLP
talks about cars. Oh pleeze! If the CHIT is everything they have been
describing
it will be revolutionary in how it changes the way people live. Ask
yourself
are you really going to do the 9 to 5 "job" when you could be
traveling anywhere
in the world using a CHIT power unit and electric motor for your boat
or
plane?

By the way before I forget. I said in one of the posts that the sodium
hydride
catalyst system creates single ion sodium. But not directly. Like the
other
catalyst systems the end result is a multi-valent ion. In the derived
AMTEC
design one Na2+ needs to strike one of the Na vapor atoms to form two
Na+
ions before the Na+ ions would be able to transport into and through
the ion
conductor. Although the hydrino reaction mixture is energetic enough
to allow
that, it would still take experiments to determine how fast that
secondary reaction
goes.

If anyone does do any experiments would be great to describe them.

Robert

[STEAMENGINE]

I have lately discovered the US patent application for a BLP CIHT
generator filed in 2002. You can read it here
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2004/0095705.html. Don't be fooled
by not seeing it when you arrive on the page. It is all out of sight
below the bottom of the window; lots of it.

The principle described is magnetohydrodynamic generation. MHD is not
new at all but the hydrino plasma makes an interesting change. In MHD
you have any conducting fluid, a plasma say, and you push it through a
channel which has a magnetic field across it on one axis and a pair of
electrodes at right angles the other way. The magnetic field causes
the fluid to try to circulate a 'resisting' current at right angles to
the magnetic field as it moves and the electrodes tap it off for the
current to flow in an external circuit.

It is reversible. If you cause a current to flow across the
electrodes in the conductive fluid the fluid will react against the
magnetic field and will move out of the way. Keep the current going
and you have a propulsion device. This was the basis of the stealthy
propulsion of the film submarine 'Red October'. In that case the
conductive fluid was sea water. There was a serious attempt to build a
working vessel with MHD drive, which did work, but which was judged as
not an overall success. See it here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive

It certainly works with a plasma as an electric generator. When I was
an undergraduate I attended a lecture at the University of Newcastle
in the UK given by the legendary Sir John Cockcroft. famous for the
splitting of the atomic nucleus with Ernest Rutherford and Ernest
Walton at Cambridge. The lecture had the most spectacular
demonstration I ever saw in my life. He had a large plywood board on
the stage with a black cylinder half way up fixed horizontally. There
was a huge Disney horse shoe magnet painted bright red arranged at one
end of the cylinder. Two brass plates were fixed at the same end of
the cylinder with their axis at right angles to the magnet field. The
brass plates were wired with comic spiral wires to a ammeter about 30"
in diameter. This whole apparatus could be seen easily from
everywhere in the hall. I suppose there were 500 people in the hall.

Sir John spent some time talking about MHD and how it might be used
for commercial power generation. He then turned to the demonstration
and said " I suppose you are all wondering if MHD really works?"
"Watch this" he then operated a switch and it then became clear that
the black cylinder was a big firework rocket. There was a terrific
whoosh and an enormous bright shower came out of the rocket. The
sparks flew through the magnet gap and the electrodes, the ammeter
shot across its scale to the full scale stop and bounced off with a
loud click. The entire room by then was filled with dense smoke. The
attendants were all holding fire extinguishers at the ready. Everyone
was on their feet shouting and cheering madly. You can imagine that I
never saw another lab demonstration to match that.

Anyway, you will find if you read the BLP patent application that it
is a box with Hydrino plasma in it and the MHD magnetic field and
electrodes to tap off the current. Assuming the hydrinos do their
stuff the MHD will certainly work in principle. I believe it will be
difficult to get commercial power out of it but, you never know,
possibly that is why he has taken such a long time to develop it.

[JohnEB]

CIHT  May 22, 2012

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/ciht-cell/

 

[Bill]

What I found most fascinating were the reports from scientists and
engineers in a variety of disciplines. Most admitted to being highly
skeptical until they looked at the data and actually saw the device
operating "as advertised."

I'm now taking bets that QM will be dead before I am. (I'm 71.)

Bill Miller


On May 24, 4:01 pm, JohnEB <johnbarc...@frontier.com> wrote:
> CIHT  May 22, 2012http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/ciht-cell/