My Clutch!

[susan]

I wasnt gonna post this in public fearing my husband would find
out,but my mother in law spilled the beans!

Last time I drove the mini,when I pulled into the driveway,The clutch
pedal felt funny.Parked it and thought nothing of it.Went to move it
yesterday,no clutch whatsoever.So I checked the fluid,nothing.Added
some fluid,and tryed to bleed the system,slave is dry as a bone.Right
now Im wating on some PB blaster on the slave bolts,I think king kong
tightned the bolts! And really dont want to bust them off in the
housing.My husband says "its your car you fix it!"..so without having
a job I have time to mess with it.
Ahh the fun of owning a MINI!!

[Desmond Mullen]

Hi Susan,

I saw that you had sent something to me about this privately - I'm sorry I
didn't have a chance to respond before this...

The best source for a quick knowledgeable answer on a technical question is
probably the Mini Mania forum. More people are involved there, so there's
probably someone who'll pitch-in with an answer quicker. That said, there's
nothing unique about Mini clutch hydraulics that I know of. It's the same as
any other hydraulic clutch.

Basically, either the clutch slave or the clutch master, or even the line
between, could be leaking. It's possible that it's a slow leak and you could
put in more fluid and bleed it and be fine for another six months.

Is fluid getting to the slave cylinder? Were you able to bleed it? If you
can determine what's leaking then fix it with either a rebuild kit or a new
unit. If you can't determine, then refill and bleed the system and see how
quickly it leaks and see if you can figure out over time what's leaking.

Take your time, you can't break it any worse than it is! You'll figure it
out in due time and it probably won't cost a whole lot to fix.

Good luck with it!

-Desmond

Desmond Mullen, Online Sales Manager
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Desmond Mullen * d...@flyingcircusenglishcars.com
================================
Flying Circus English Cars Limited
http://www.flyingcircusenglishcars.com * 919/596-4250
-----------------------------------------------------------

[susan]

It didnt bleed at all,and I took out the bleeder screw and it was dry
as a bone,got the slave off the housing,now just trying to fight the
hose.I really think none of this has ever been replaced,mabey it has
but doesnt look like it.Car has 60 k on it.Anyway,I need a 15mm
flarenut wrench.Im gonna let PB blaster sit on the fittings over night
and pick one up tommorow.

On Mar 26, 10:58 am, Desmond Mullen <d...@flyingcircusenglishcars.com>
wrote:

> Hi Susan,
>
> I saw that you had sent something to me about this privately - I'm sorry I
> didn't have a chance to respond before this...
>
> The best source for a quick knowledgeable answer on a technical question is
> probably the Mini Mania forum. More people are involved there, so there's
> probably someone who'll pitch-in with an answer quicker. That said, there's
> nothing unique about Mini clutch hydraulics that I know of. It's the same as
> any other hydraulic clutch.
>
> Basically, either the clutch slave or the clutch master, or even the line
> between, could be leaking. It's possible that it's a slow leak and you could
> put in more fluid and bleed it and be fine for another six months.
>
> Is fluid getting to the slave cylinder? Were you able to bleed it? If you
> can determine what's leaking then fix it with either a rebuild kit or a new
> unit. If you can't determine, then refill and bleed the system and see how
> quickly it leaks and see if you can figure out over time what's leaking.
>
> Take your time, you can't break it any worse than it is! You'll figure it
> out in due time and it probably won't cost a whole lot to fix.
>
> Good luck with it!
>
> -Desmond
>

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

I tried posting earlier but for some reason the message was not added.

As Desmond said, there's nothing special about the Mini's hydraulic
clutch. After you filled the master reservoir the fluid should have
started dribbling out the bleed nipple once you opened it. Since it's
dry as a bone, you may want to completely remove the nipple and run a
piece of copper wire down into/through the hole on the slave into its
bore. It might be that either the bleed nipple or the small hole in
the slave are plugged with rust.

You also commented that this may be the original hose and/or slave
cylinder. Though this is much more common on brakes than clutches,
the inner wall of the old rubber flex hoses will swell closed,
pinching off the supply of fluid. This could also leave things dry
when you open the nipple, but once pressure is applied by the pedal,
fluid should still come out.

What did the pedal feel like when you last drove the car. What do you
mean by it "felt funny"?

Doug L.

[susan]

It felt like there was no pressure,but it shifted fine,well from the
end of my driveway to the shop,which is about 1/4 mile long,shifted
into second.

> > Ahh the fun of owning a MINI!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[susan]

Forgot to say,I drained the master and the fluid was jet black! Im
still trying to get off the rubber hose too..not cooperating
whatsoever..

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Bradley Sulecki]

Susan - I just bought a nice pressurized one man power bleeder that
worked very well when I replaced my master cylinder. You are welcome
to borrow it but it's in Burlington.

Brad

[susan]

I may have to take you up on that,but need to get the hose off
first,didnt have a good day today with it,but I will take my time
doing it.I have bruises all over my forearms from working on it
today,I know..from what? I really dont know.Hopefuly tommorow I can
get the hose off.Im really thinking of just replacing everything
except the hard line.
They said in my technical CD I bought from Moss that to remove the
slave THEN the hose,(they said to unscrew it,yeah right!)But I cant
get any leverage on the hose to remove it.

On Mar 26, 4:03 pm, Bradley Sulecki <2doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Susan - I just bought a nice pressurized one man power bleeder that
> worked very well when I replaced my master cylinder. You are welcome
> to borrow it but it's in Burlington.
>
> Brad
>

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

If the fluid is jet black, assume that the seals in the master are
gone. If you have a master or slave that has never been rebuilt...
and you add regular DOT-3 brake fluid the seals will fall apart fairly
quickly. The original specified fluid would be DOT-4. Sometime in
the late 1970s they changed the rubber seal material to something
compatible with DOT-3 and DOT-4 so you can use either fluid IF all the
rubber wetted parts have been replaced.

The info in the Moss CD is correct, you need to undo the two bolts
holding the slave to the clutch cover, then get a flare nut wrench on
the top end of the hose to unscrew it.

Doug L.

[Desmond Mullen]

On 3/26/09 5:35 PM, "susan" <sue...@msn.com> wrote:
> doing it.I have bruises all over my forearms from working on it
> today,I know..from what? I really dont know.Hopefuly tommorow I can

Speaking of bruised forearms, after a variety of bangs and bumps working on
my Mini last weekend my left forearm looks like I've been beaten up. But
just on my arm! Some bully had it in for my arm. ;-)

Good luck with the clutch hydraulics. It seems like lots of bits on my Mini
were stuck really hard. Just take your time and you'll get it freed-up and
worked out in the end.

-Desmond
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Desmond Mullen, Creative Director
d...@busylittlestudios.com 919/321-2395
===============================
"Illuminating the workings of the world for young children"
http://www.busylittlestudios.com
-----------------------------------------------------------

[susan]

Well,I got the slave and master off,cut that stinking hose off couldnt
get it off and ordered one that is a single line (instead of hard line/
soft line).And ordered all the rest.I ordered a rebuild kit for the
master and slave.Cleaned them up and they look good for rebuild.As for
taking off the master...who designed these cars? A English horse
jockey?????I had to take the front seat out,and while I was looking
for a long needle nose my husband got in there and said "Where the
he!! is it?"....he's too big to get under the clutch pedal. I wish the
engine mount wasnt where it is,otherwise I would cut a access hole in
the fire wall to get to that clevis pin!..and more bruises!..on my
upper arm and on my back from the seat mount crushing into my back!ah
what fun!!!

On Mar 26, 7:48 pm, Desmond Mullen <d...@busylittlestudios.com> wrote:

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

Susan,

When you are ready to put the master cylinder back in, do not use a
cotter pin in the clevis. Go to the hardware store and get a hitch
pin to go through the hole in the clevis pin. You'll find it much
easier to install and remove in the future. The clutch and brake
master cylinders themselves aren't too bad, but those pins on the
pedal are a nightmare.

An additional place to change this is on the front seats. As you
found out, you have to remove the front seat to gain access to the
pedal box. Sometimes you may want to carry BIG cargo in the Mini and
that means the front passenger area. A change you can make so that
removing the seats is easier is to remove the 1/4" bolts that hold the
seats to the crossmember brackets. Replace the bolts with clevis pins
and use hitch pins in the clevis pins. Removing the front seats then
becomes a 1 minute job that requires no tools. I've used that a
couple of times when I've gone to Lowes to pick up fertilizer and
grass seed. Without the front seat you can carry a lot of stuff.

I'm glad you're making progress. Let us know how it's going!

Doug L.

> > ------------------------------------------------------------ Hide quoted text -

[susan]

they make a hitch pin that small?

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

Forgive my misuse of the term. What I should have said was you want
the "hairclip style" cotter pin commonly used on some hitch pins.

If the link works, you're looking for something like this:
http://www.mcmaster.com/param/images/Pins/98335a074callout.gif

There should be assorted sizes available at most hardware stores (even
Lowes and Home Depot). Check out the generic clevis pins when you're
there and buy them together.

On the subject of clevis pins, in many instances excessive pedal
travel with the clutch is due to play introduced from worn
components. The first thing to replace are all the clevis pins.
Since your clutch master is out, take a look at the clevis on its
pushrod. If it's holes have worn into egg shapes, a common fix is to
tack weld washers onto the clevis (with the washers being a close fit
to a new clevis pin). There are lots of other places that wear creeps
in, but since you have the clutch master out, now would be a good time
to address any wear on the clevis or pin.

Sorry about the terminology earlier!

Doug L.

[susan]

The seat idea is awsome! I will be doing that.BTW,got my other 2 tyres
today via e-bay 165-70-10 for 145.00 with shipping.They have 2500
miles on them but they dont look hurt.Gonna head to Digital Chassis
tommorow and get them mounted..still wating on my clutch parts.

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

Did you go with the Yoko's? If so, that's a good price. The last
time I checked TireRack.com the 165/70/10s were out of stock. Seven
Enterprises had them in stock but I really didn't like the idea of
shipping from California. Mine will need replacing soon but since my
car is for weekends I should be able to put that off till next year.

Keep us updated on the clutch. Too bad you'll have those new tires
and won't be able to drive on them for a while.

Doug L.

[susan]

Yeah they are the yoko's . I guess I got lucky.Got the hose in
today,still wating on the rest.

[susan]

Well finnaly got it a buttoned up,and it seemed to be well
bled.Started it,tryed to put it into gear...nothing..my heart dropped!
I had ordered the slave spring,because I noticed it wasnt there.Well
we took off the spring and thank god now its working fine. Im not sure
what that spring is for but I guess I dont need it,it just made it
worse.

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

I'm glad you got the parts but sorry they kept you from going to the
show in Hillborough.

I don't remember what year your car is. The later cars (after 1983)
have a "verto" clutch which uses a short throw-out arm. My car is old
and has the non-verto clutch which uses the long throw-out arm, but I
don't think they have a return spring for the arm. See this JPG.
http://www.guessworks.fsnet.co.uk/pics/clutch1.JPG
The vertical arm shown in red is the type used on the early cars like
mine. The arm return spring attaches to the top of the arm. The
other end of the spring attaches to an anchor bracket that fits around
the clutch bleed nipple. Is that the spring you're talking about?

Doug L.

[susan]

Yeah,mines a 79' but the spring wasnt there,I had thought it broke and
fell off.Works just fine without it.

On Apr 4, 7:35 pm, dklaw...@mindspring.com wrote:
> I'm glad you got the parts but sorry they kept you from going to the
> show in Hillborough.
>
> I don't remember what year your car is.  The later cars (after 1983)
> have a "verto" clutch which uses a short throw-out arm.  My car is old
> and has the non-verto clutch which uses the long throw-out arm, but I

> don't think they have a return spring for the arm.  See this JPG.http://www.guessworks.fsnet.co.uk/pics/clutch1.JPG

[dkla...@mindspring.com]

If the clutch works better without the spring there's a good chance
the stop bolt isn't adjusted properly. No big deal, but if you are
interested, read on.

On the clutch cover will be a 1/4-28 hex head bolt that is positioned
to contact a little boss about half way down the throw-out arm. The
factory setting goes something like this...
Remove the spring and pull the arm all the way towards the inner
fender.
Loosen the jam nut, then turn the 1/4-28 nut until there is a gap of
0.020" between the head of the stop bolt and the throw-out arm.
Tighten the jam nut.
Replace the spring.

That's great if nothing is worn. The purpose of the spring is to keep
the throw out bearing from riding on the pressure plate all the time.
The stop is there to make sure the spring does not "over do it" and
push the piston too far back in the slave cylinder.

However, when there is wear on the components (I believe I posted the
wear areas earlier) you need to have the throw out bearing moving as
soon as possible so you have reasonable pedal travel. If you aren't
ready to replace the worn parts and your clutch is engaging/
disengaging when the pedal is all the way at the floorboards, tighten
that stop bolt setting. As I said, the factory setting is 0.020". As
long as the throw-out bearing isn't riding the pressure plate you can
set that a lot tighter, perhaps as low as 0.005". That will let you
engage/disengage the clutch with the pedal further off the floor.

Doug L.