[Cadillac] Re: 59 Cadillac Persistent Oil Leaks
redcad59
Ok, here's another book I just wrote !
In my experience, I have had EVERY Oil & Fluid leak imaginable, and have successfully nixed every single one over the 15 years I have had Miss Scarlett. As far as actual OIL goes, I suspect you should check/re-check your VALVE COVER GASKETS, as mine have always been plagued with seepage from the rearmost ends, nearest the firewall, and even new gaskets, correctly torqued/re-torqued still seep significantly after about 1yr. I straightened, de-dented, reshaped, hammered, and reworked my valve covers until they mated 'like-new' to my similarly re-worked valve-heads. That helped, but didn't eliminate the seepage. Ultimately, I ditched the cork/neoprene/whatever cover-gaskets and went with Permatex ULTRA-BLUE silicone alone, and that stopped those leaks PERMANENTLY. I also had persistent pressure-leakage from the OIL SENDING UNIT, and I had to keep buying new ones until I discovered them mostly ALL SUCK, so I had to construct my own special Oil-cap for a sending unit, and J.B.WELD it on after installation to stop that one.
Second to those, you might consider similar leakage from the LIFTER-VALLEY COVER, which I had to use the same procedures as the Valve-covers with. Another possible, but unlikely, source would be the DISTRIBUTOR, which could allow seepage out and down the back, and be very difficult to locate. One of the more pernicious Oil leaks I had to assess/re-assess several times was from the OIL FILTER PRESSURE tube, which has a fitting at the upper front of the block feeding pressurized oil up thru the skinny tube and into the Filter Canister atop the engine. Getting the two fittings, (one @ block, one @ canister) to seal adequately was endlessly frustrating
for the first 10yrs, until I got just the right combination of Brass-Fittings & metal brake-line that would thread properly and seal tightly without stripping/cracking/breaking and ultimately leaking again. The block fitting would seep/ooze oil under pressure, which would run backward down the valley cover then down the back of the block to drip on the floor and be indistinguishable from the other oil leaks.
Moving on to the Hydramatic Transmission, the most interesting leaks were from the Rear Main Seal, the Speedo Unit, the Oil-fill Tube, and the Cooling Line Adapter Plate & Mounting. The Rear Main Seal was obvious and easy:
Here are the notes from my service-log:
Rear Transmission Extension Housing Removed/Inspected for Trans Fluid leakage
Rear Main Transmission/Driveshaft Oil-Seal noted as severely worn/leaking.
Rear Trans Seal replaced w/new Part ( NAPA # 16871 $8 )
Seal Installed w/ULTRA-BLUE silicone sealer.
Here's the part you might need: Trans Rear Seal Type: CR #16871
Here's how you do it:
1. Raise Car
2. Remove Driveshaft
3.* Use hammer & screwdriver to pry old Rear Oil Seal from
Hydramatic Rear Extension Housing.
4. Gently Tap in - Install New Rear Oil Seal. Rubber Hammer useful here.
5. Inspect Driveshaft Yoke for scratching or damage. Polish out scratches w/fine sandpaper or sanding cloth.
6. lubricate Seal & mating surfaces of Driveshaft Yoke w/Trans Fluid while Re-Installing driveshaft.
* If Oil Seal is hard to access or does not come out easily then add the following steps:
3a. Loosen Parking Brake Relay Assy & Disconnect brake cables from parking brake lever.
3b. Remove retracting spring and remove Parking brake relay from frame.
The Speedo Unit was less obvious, but where the Speedo Cable goes into the Tranny there is an internal 'O' ring to deal with, not to mention the unit-to-Hydramatic-body threaded parts to watch out for. May have to remove the cable, then unscrew the Speedo Drive Gear Housing + Drive-Gear to inspect and re-ring or re-seal as necessary.
Speedo Jack & Gear assessed. Speedo Gear loose in housing. Washer added to
shim Speedo Gear. Speedo Jack shaft loose/dirty/corroded/bad O-ring.
Speedo Jack cleaned/derusted/polished. New O-ring added.
Speedo Jack housing sealed w/ULTRA-BLUE Silcone.
Looks like my extension-housing was leaking too!
Extension Housing-to-Trans-Body Gasket old/cracked/ruined/removed.
Extension Housing re-installed w/ULTRA-BLUE silicone sealer as Gasket
to Trans-Body.
The Oil-fill tube mates to an 'O'-ring INSIDE the Tranny hole where it goes in. You gotta unscrew the fill-tube mounting-tab from the back of the engine block (which is a PAIN) and pull tube up/out and then get under car with good lighting to replace that 'O' ring with much effort. While you're there you'll likely notice the most significant leakage coming from in/behind the COOLING-LINES & ADAPTER-PLATE & TRANNY-BODY which is one of the poorest design features they ever came up with. Cooling Line (Threaded Thickened Brake-line) screwed into a thick circular hunk-o-metal ADAPTER PLATE the size of a small biscuit, which is then allen-screwed to the Hydra body with a lousy PAPER GASKET between. Pull it all, clean it all, put it all back in a fashion to your liking, but I highly recommend chucking the (lousy) paper gasket and replacing it with JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE than another (lousy) paper gasket. I used PERMATEX ULTRA BLUE silicone, but it can be a bit messy and in the confined space under the car, perhaps impractical. Whatever you do will likely help that nasty bit of oil/grime from recurring any time soon.
Here are the notes from my service-log:
SEVERE TRANS LEAKAGE traced to Trans fluid COOLER Lines at Trans Adapter!!
Moderate Leakage also found at Trans fluid FILLER PIPE.
Minor Leakage found at scuffed Front Cooling Line to Radiator (Rubber Line)
Trans fluid Cooling Lines noted as running VERY CLOSE to Pass.Side.Exhaust-Manifold.
Trans Cooler Adapter & Lines Disassembled/Assessed.
MAIN SOURCE OF TRANS LEAKAGE LOCATED
Adapter VERY LOOSE !! Adapter/Gasket/body corroded! Gasket Ruined!
Cooling Lines, Adapter, Body & Two internal couplers cleaned/DeRusted/treated.
Adapter & Couplers reinstalled w/ULTRA-BLUE silicone sealer.
Adapter & Lines reattached & torqued to SHOP MANUAL Spec.
Trans Fluid Fill Pipe removed/cleaned/derusted/primed/painted BLACK.
New 'O' ring & protector cap installed at bottom trans interface.
Fill Pipe interface sealed w/ULTRA-BLUE silicone sealer.
See pics here in online albums of stuff we've discussed recently:
(if one link doesn't work, hopefully the other will)
https://picasaweb.google.com/107124378316258995863/59Cadillac?noredirect=1#
https://plus.google.com/photos/107124378316258995863/albums/5887636402538737409
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Menz <rick...@northropteam.com>
>Sent: Jun 8, 2013 6:15 PM
>To: 'redcad59' <redc...@pipeline.com>
>Subject: Persistent Oil Leaks
>
>Ron:
>
>
>
>In your experience, have you had leaks from the rear portion of the engine?
>I have had my '59 Cad engine rebuilt as well as the transmission. I have
>been plagued with leaks from the rear of the engine. The guys that rebuilt
>the engine (Penn-Dutch Restoration) swear it's not the rear main seal. They,
>buy the way, had a reputable engine rebuild shop do all the machining on the
>engine. Penn-Dutch did the assembly. They (Penn-Dutch) put a dye in the oil
>and have tried to trace the leak with an ultraviolet light---more than once.
>Just when we think we found it, it leaks some more. This last time (after we
>thought the leak/s were finally fixed) I drove it for about 30 minutes at 55
>mph + or -. When I got home, I did not detect any leaking from the engine or
>trans ----Hallelujah I thought. Two weeks later when I started it up and
>drove it about 5 miles around the neighborhood, it leaked---quite a bit!.
>One thing that did happen when I shut the engine off, ----it dieseled for a
>split second, for some reason, ---- not sure why---first time that happened.
>I'm not sure if that would cause excessive leaking out the back---somehow? I
>started it up a few days after that and drove it 5 miles again---brought it
>back home and turned it off without any dieseling this time. It leaked, but
>not as much. I have also noticed that the oil leaking out is brownish /
>pinkish, like it might have some trans fluid in it---is that possible? So in
>about a month, it's going back up to Penn-Dutch to do a dye test with
>ultraviolet light again---first the engine then the trans. I've had the
>transmission out twice-once for rebuilding and once again to stop another
>leak. It has been rebuilt by a reputable shop that rebuilds these type of
>transmissions. It is located just south-west of New Your City.
>
>
>
>I've got a Gremlin in there somewhere, but can't find it.
>
>
>
>Have you had anything like this happen to you in your experience? ----Any
>suggestions?
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>
>Rick Menz
>
Ron Threadgill
'Miss Scarlett' - 1959 Cadillac ElviSeville DeVilleDorado CoupeVertible Fleetisman D'EleBroughamWood VRX Hybrid
http://home.comcast.net/~amthreadgill/
or
http://www.pipeline.com/~rthreadgill/
Cadillac & LaSalle Club - Central Virginia :
www.CentralVaCadillacLaSalleClub.org
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jag56cad
The oil cooler sleeves have a rubber seal (cup style) these tend to be a
pain to get back in or double pain to remove as they seat inside holes
at the front pump housing. Did you notice those on yours?
redcad59
As a matter of fact, I actually hand-rebuilt my own '59 Hydra, so I do recall
the rubber seals mentioned. Since they are INTERNAL, they are unlikely to
cause an external leak, but since they are made of rubber, and potentially degradable, they could
certainly warrant periodic replacement. I had 3 Hydras at my disposal from which to select the best
parts, so I made sure those guys were in good shape. I will be glad to post pics if desired.
-----Original Message-----
>From: jag56cad <no_r...@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Jun 10, 2013 7:59 PM
>To: classicca...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Cadillac] Re: 59 Cadillac Persistent Oil Leaks
>
>
>The oil cooler sleeves have a rubber seal (cup style) these tend to be a
>pain to get back in or double pain to remove as they seat inside holes
>at the front pump housing. Did you notice those on yours?
>
>
>
>
>--- In classicca...@yahoogroups.com, redcad59 wrote:
>>
>> Ok, here's another book I just wrote !
>>
>> In my experience, I have had EVERY Oil & Fluid leak imaginable, and
>have successfully nixed every single one over the 15 years I have had
>https://plus.google.com/photos/107124378316258995863/albums/588763640253\
>8737409
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Rick Menz rickmenz@...
>> >Sent: Jun 8, 2013 6:15 PM
>> >To: 'redcad59' redcad59@...
>> >Subject: Persistent Oil Leaks
>> >
>> >Ron:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >In your experience, have you had leaks from the rear portion of the
>engine?
>> >
>> >I've got a Gremlin in there somewhere, but can't find it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Have you had anything like this happen to you in your experience?
>----Any
>> >suggestions?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Rick Menz
Ron Threadgill
'Miss Scarlett' - 1959 Cadillac ElviSeville DeVilleDorado CoupeVertible Fleetisman D'EleBroughamWood VRX Hybrid
http://home.comcast.net/~amthreadgill/
or
http://www.pipeline.com/~rthreadgill/
Cadillac & LaSalle Club - Central Virginia :
www.CentralVaCadillacLaSalleClub.org
