[Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............

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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 3:01:47 PM7/28/19
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Hello,


Having vapor locking problems with my '54 Cadillac 331 engine... with that Carter 4 barrel AFB. If anyone can suggest a fix for that , let me know... I am in Northwestern AZ..   it gets up to 105  everyday... The car vapor locks at stop lights.... and the gas in the fuel filter completely turns to vapor when it hits 90 degrees...outside......I have tried clothes line clips on the fuel line... and a guy with a 49 chevy said to wrap the fuel line in foil.....I do have a spacer between the carb and the manifold,  but,  the gas is vaporizing long before it even gets to the carb...or just park the car and wait for the cooler weather............still was not able to find a radiator shroud to work on the car......the power steering pump  is in the way....so it runs about190 to  210 degrees , running a 160 thermostat.... was told be a guy who builds dragsters to switch to a 180 thermostat so the antifreeze stays in the radiator longer.......any ides on both of these issues?????

Thanks,

Jay
Kingman , AZ

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ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 3:39:42 PM7/28/19
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Did you check the fuel tank CAP,make sure its vented....properly....sounds like an air exchange problem to me....

On Sunday, July 28, 2019, 02:01:43 PM CDT, starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

Hello,


Having vapor locking problems with my '54 Cadillac 331 engine... with that Carter 4 barrel AFB. If anyone can suggest a fix for that , let me know... I am in Northwestern AZ..   it gets up to 105  everyday... The car vapor locks at stop lights.... and the gas in the fuel filter completely turns to vapor when it hits 90 degrees...outside......I have tried clothes line clips on the fuel line... and a guy with a 49 chevy said to wrap the fuel line in foil.....I do have a spacer between the carb and the manifold,  but,  the gas is vaporizing long before it even gets to the carb...or just park the car and wait for the cooler weather............still was not able to find a radiator shroud to work on the car......the power steering pump  is in the way....so it runs about190 to  210 degrees , running a 160 thermostat.... was told be a guy who builds dragsters to switch to a 180 thermostat so the antifreeze stays in the radiator longer.......any ides on both of these issues?????

Thanks,

Jay
Kingman , AZ

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'Tom McKenna' traveler@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 3:45:26 PM7/28/19
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Click Me!
I would go to a 4 core rad if you do not have one already, a 185 or 190 degree thermostat, and replace the engine fan with a pair of electric fans that are controlled by a heat sensor. I would also put a manual override switch on the fans, so that on really hot days you could start them yourself if need be.  Had similar problem some years ago, and  this cured the problem.  In my case, I used a pair of Honda fans, and got the fans and the fan switch at the auto wreckers - I got the remains of the Honda rad, and took the fitting for the switch out of the Honda rad, into a rad shop and they installed the fitting into my rad - then mounted the thermostatic switch in my rad.  Worked great and resolved the problem.  Also, and I am assuming you have already done this, but mention it anyway, make sure your rad is clean both inside and out, and  no fin separation.
 
Tom
 
 
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------

 
Date: 7/28/2019 3:01:40 PM
Subject: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............
 
 

Hello,


Having vapor locking problems with my '54 Cadillac 331 engine... with that Carter 4 barrel AFB. If anyone can suggest a fix for that , let me know... I am in Northwestern AZ..   it gets up to 105  everyday... The car vapor locks at stop lights.... and the gas in the fuel filter completely turns to vapor when it hits 90 degrees...outside......I have tried clothes line clips on the fuel line... and a guy with a 49 chevy said to wrap the fuel line in foil.....I do have a spacer between the carb and the manifold,  but,  the gas is vaporizing long before it even gets to the carb...or just park the car and wait for the cooler weather............still was not able to find a radiator shroud to work on the car......the power steering pump  is in the way....so it runs about190 to  210 degrees , running a 160 thermostat.... was told be a guy who builds dragsters to switch to a 180 thermostat so the antifreeze stays in the radiator longer.......any ides on both of these issues?????

Thanks,

Jay
Kingman , AZ

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'TheBig429 ...' thebig429@gmail.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 4:20:11 PM7/28/19
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Along with all the other good advice here, try ethanol free gas. 

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:45 PM 'Tom McKenna' trav...@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Click Me!
I would go to a 4 core rad if you do not have one already, a 185 or 190 degree thermostat, and replace the engine fan with a pair of electric fans that are controlled by a heat sensor. I would also put a manual override switch on the fans, so that on really hot days you could start them yourself if need be.  Had similar problem some years ago, and  this cured the problem.  In my case, I used a pair of Honda fans, and got the fans and the fan switch at the auto wreckers - I got the remains of the Honda rad, and took the fitting for the switch out of the Honda rad, into a rad shop and they installed the fitting into my rad - then mounted the thermostatic switch in my rad.  Worked great and resolved the problem.  Also, and I am assuming you have already done this, but mention it anyway, make sure your rad is clean both inside and out, and  no fin separation.
 
Tom
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 7/28/2019 3:01:40 PM
Subject: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............
 
 

Hello,


Having vapor locking problems with my '54 Cadillac 331 engine... with that Carter 4 barrel AFB. If anyone can suggest a fix for that , let me know... I am in Northwestern AZ..   it gets up to 105  everyday... The car vapor locks at stop lights.... and the gas in the fuel filter completely turns to vapor when it hits 90 degrees...outside......I have tried clothes line clips on the fuel line... and a guy with a 49 chevy said to wrap the fuel line in foil.....I do have a spacer between the carb and the manifold,  but,  the gas is vaporizing long before it even gets to the carb...or just park the car and wait for the cooler weather.............still was not able to find a radiator shroud to work on the car......the power steering pump  is in the way....so it runs about190 to  210 degrees , running a 160 thermostat.... was told be a guy who builds dragsters to switch to a 180 thermostat so the antifreeze stays in the radiator longer.......any ides on both of these issues?????


Thanks,

Jay
Kingman , AZ


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starcommand starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 5:02:23 PM7/28/19
to 'Tom McKenna' traveler@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat]
 

The problem is finding a 4 core radiator that will mount where the old radiator mounted to..and be able to accept the top and bottom waterpump hose alignment......... I'll start with the fans.. and going to a 180/ 190 degree thermostat....

Any ideas on the gasoline vapor locking.....I already converted over to an Electric fuel pump mounted right after the gas tank ....Maybe insulated fuel line wrap too???

Thanks,

Jay

On Sunday, July 28, 2019, 12:45:26 PM MST, 'Tom McKenna' trav...@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Click Me!
I would go to a 4 core rad if you do not have one already, a 185 or 190 degree thermostat, and replace the engine fan with a pair of electric fans that are controlled by a heat sensor. I would also put a manual override switch on the fans, so that on really hot days you could start them yourself if need be.  Had similar problem some years ago, and  this cured the problem.  In my case, I used a pair of Honda fans, and got the fans and the fan switch at the auto wreckers - I got the remains of the Honda rad, and took the fitting for the switch out of the Honda rad, into a rad shop and they installed the fitting into my rad - then mounted the thermostatic switch in my rad.  Worked great and resolved the problem.  Also, and I am assuming you have already done this, but mention it anyway, make sure your rad is clean both inside and out, and  no fin separation.
 
Tom
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 7/28/2019 3:01:40 PM
Subject: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............
 
 

Hello,


Having vapor locking problems with my '54 Cadillac 331 engine... with that Carter 4 barrel AFB. If anyone can suggest a fix for that , let me know... I am in Northwestern AZ..   it gets up to 105  everyday... The car vapor locks at stop lights.... and the gas in the fuel filter completely turns to vapor when it hits 90 degrees...outside......I have tried clothes line clips on the fuel line... and a guy with a 49 chevy said to wrap the fuel line in foil.....I do have a spacer between the carb and the manifold,  but,  the gas is vaporizing long before it even gets to the carb...or just park the car and wait for the cooler weather............still was not able to find a radiator shroud to work on the car......the power steering pump  is in the way....so it runs about190 to  210 degrees , running a 160 thermostat.... was told be a guy who builds dragsters to switch to a 180 thermostat so the antifreeze stays in the radiator longer.......any ides on both of these issues?????

Thanks,

Jay
Kingman , AZ


altVirus-free. www.avg.com
 

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Mike Welch thebig429@gmail.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 7:42:01 PM7/28/19
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Seeing that you have an electric fuel pump and it’s working. Have you checked for spark when this happens? Sounds like it could be a coil going bad.

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sherry robyn sherryjimmy6116@att.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 7:46:08 PM7/28/19
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An electric fuel pump will solve your problem, but if you want to keep the stock fuel pump (which I now do and I live in Sacramento valley and it is 105 today), then wrap the lines as much as possible.  As to the cooling, I made a 1/2 top shroud (1/2 top works better than 50%) and since anti-freeze does little to cool (it is intended to stop freezing), use mostly water with only 15% anti-freeze, and water wetter.  Also, try to get a fan with an extra blade (stay away from flex fans).  Also, use a rubber molding (I just happen to have found something that works) and seal off all gaps between body members and the radiator on the front side of the radiator so all incoming air goes through the radiator.  I have tried a pusher electric fan, but while they work ok, they do block air going into the radiator so it it not a total win.  I don't use one now.

Hope this helps.
Jim

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'Bruce Hatch' bhatch@saber.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 8:14:07 PM7/28/19
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Using the “exhaust wrap” tape for headers may help, but make sure that your GAS CAP is vented.  Most all the ones you can get today are “Emissions” caps and your tank is not vented.  Hope this helps.

1BigDuck  LOVE CADILLACS!!!  ;-)

 

From: classicca...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:classicca...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 3:20 PM
To: 'Tom McKenna' trav...@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat]
Subject: Re: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............

The problem is finding a 4 core radiator that will mount where the old radiator mounted to..and be able to accept the top and bottom waterpump hose alignment......... I'll start with the fans.. and going to a 180/ 190 degree thermostat....

 

Any ideas on the gasoline vapor locking.....I already converted over to an Electric fuel pump mounted right after the gas tank .....Maybe insulated fuel line wrap too???

 

Thanks,

 

Jay

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Posted by: "Bruce Hatch" <bha...@saber.net>
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'Tom McKenna' traveler@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 9:00:43 PM7/28/19
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Click Me!
If you have an older rad shop in your area - one that has been around for a while, they should be able to make you up a 4 core at a half decent price - I found that with the electric fans, they put enough air flow past the fuel pump and lines that the vapour problem ceased to exist. One thing I forgot to mention, but the "The Big 429" Covered nicely - try to find gas with no alcohol in it - not the easiest thing to do sometimes - and always use Hi Test Gas in these older engines -  in fact I use an octane additive as well.  Higher octane will give  you better combustion, and your engine will run cooler.  One other item that may help - how close to your fuel lines is the exhaust system??If they are in close proximity, you can have a tinsmith make you up an "L" shaped heat shield that you can attach to the frame with pop rivets or sheet metal screws, to reflect the heat away from the fuel line.  One last problem that I found once - the rubber gas line connector had a layer separation and the draw of the pump would cause the separation to collapse, closing off the fuel supply.
 
I think however if you convert to the electric fans you will notice a big improvement as you get better airflow and there is also another positive to it as well - it takes about 15 horsepower to to spin the fan mounted on the waterpump pulley, so you gain a bit there as well.-
 
 
Tom
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 

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starcommand starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 10:08:27 PM7/28/19
to sherry robyn sherryjimmy6116@att.net [classiccadillacchat]
 

I did install an electric fuel pump just in front of the gas tank by the frame rail on the drivers side.... , and removed the mechanical one...Had the car out today,  when it was in the 90's, and when idling....at a truck stop.. the gas in fuel filter completely vaporized.....when I managed to get it up to speed on the 2 lane blacktop, the increased airflow seemed to help...so I made it home.. 10 miles....It seems 2 small puller fans  would work better on the engine side of the radiator, trick is to clear the pulley even after removing the original fan cause there's very little clearance between the front of the pulley,  and the radiator.....I am running a 160 degree thermostat... was told to get a 180 or 190... instead as the coolant may be moving to quickly through  the radiator...but it seems to me once the thermostat opens, what difference does that really make?? I can't go to 4 core radiator because the top and bottom canisters wont accept it. I had it recored 7 years ago......I did have a '65 cutlass in the '80's and going to a 4 core radiator  did work on that car.... not the '54.Cadillac...........the car does have factory AC, so there is a rather wide original condensor sitting in front of the radiator....maybe that is slowing down the airflow..... Seems to me the engineers back then didnt design that cooling system very well for a desert climate...................must of really been bad news to be driving around in those cars in 1950's...............the things people had to put up with back then.........

On Sunday, July 28, 2019, 04:46:08 PM MST, sherry robyn sherryj...@att.net [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

An electric fuel pump will solve your problem, but if you want to keep the stock fuel pump (which I now do and I live in Sacramento valley and it is 105 today), then wrap the lines as much as possible.  As to the cooling, I made a 1/2 top shroud (1/2 top works better than 50%) and since anti-freeze does little to cool (it is intended to stop freezing), use mostly water with only 15% anti-freeze, and water wetter.  Also, try to get a fan with an extra blade (stay away from flex fans).  Also, use a rubber molding (I just happen to have found something that works) and seal off all gaps between body members and the radiator on the front side of the radiator so all incoming air goes through the radiator.  I have tried a pusher electric fan, but while they work ok, they do block air going into the radiator so it it not a total win.  I don't use one now.

Hope this helps.
Jim

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starcommand starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 28, 2019, 11:36:10 PM7/28/19
to 'Tom McKenna' traveler@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat]
 
[Attachment(s) from starcommand included below]


The fuel line is about 2" from the right front elower engine block, so that is probably heating up the  gas.... the line is not close to the exhaust pipe.......maybe use a fiberglass wrap?????

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Mike Welch thebig429@gmail.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 29, 2019, 11:37:44 AM7/29/19
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Seems like that electric fuel pump should keep the fuel bowl filled no mater what.
Low pressure? Is the fuel pump at fault? Can you hear it run when this happens?

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'Bruce Hatch' bhatch@saber.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 29, 2019, 1:01:00 PM7/29/19
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DID YOU CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR TANK IS “VENTED?”  The fiberglass tape is what I was referring to as “header tape” it is available with a foil barrier also.  From Summit racing.

1BigDuck

CHECK THE FULE TANK VENT!  Maybe try just loosening the cap may be? Just for a test.  Than get a “Vented cap”  if you have an electric pump, maybe it is malfunctioning?

From: classicca...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:classicca...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 10:04 PM
To: 'Tom McKenna' trav...@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat]
Subject: Re: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............ [3 Attachments]

 

 

 

The fuel line is about 2" from the right front elower engine block, so that is probably heating up the  gas.... the line is not close to the exhaust pipe.......maybe use a fiberglass wrap?????

On Sunday, July 28, 2019, 06:00:42 PM MST, 'Tom McKenna' trav...@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

 

Click Me!

If you have an older rad shop in your area - one that has been around for a while, they should be able to make you up a 4 core at a half decent price - I found that with the electric fans, they put enough air flow past the fuel pump and lines that the vapour problem ceased to exist. One thing I forgot to mention, but the "The Big 429" Covered nicely - try to find gas with no alcohol in it - not the easiest thing to do sometimes - and always use Hi Test Gas in these older engines -  in fact I use an octane additive as well.  Higher octane will give  you better combustion, and your engine will run cooler.  One other item that may help - how close to your fuel lines is the exhaust system??If they are in close proximity, you can have a tinsmith make you up an "L" shaped heat shield that you can attach to the frame with pop rivets or sheet metal screws, to reflect the heat away from the fuel line.  One last problem that I found once - the ru bber gas line connector had a layer separation and the draw of the pump would cause the separation to collapse, closing off the fuel supply.

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Bob Podstawski bobp8@optonline.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 29, 2019, 1:27:27 PM7/29/19
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[Attachment(s) from Bob Podstawski included below]

Gut your mechanical pump, install an electrical half way to the tank (add an inline filter in the tank side at the new pump). Everything looks the same as stock. Exhaust wrap will deteriorate over time and only looks good on  a street rod or race car.

image1.jpeg

 

 

-------Original Message-------

 

I would go to a 4 core rad if you do not have one already, a 185 or 190 degree thermostat, and replace the engine fan with a pair of electric fans that are controlled by a heat sensor. I would also put a manual override switch on the fans, so that on really hot days you could start them yourself if need be.  Had similar problem some years ago, and  this cured the problem.  In my case, I used a pair of Honda fans, and got the fans and the fan switch at the auto wreckers - I got the remains of the Honda rad, and took the fitting for the switch out of the Honda rad, into a rad shop and they installed the fitting into my rad - then mounted the thermostatic switch in my rad.  Worked great and resolved the problem.  Also, and I am assuming you have already done this, but mention it anyway, make sure your rad is clean both inside and out, and  no fin separation.

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------Original Message-------

 

Subject: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking.............

 

 

Hello,

 

Having vapor locking problems with my '54 Cadillac 331 engine... with that Carter 4 barrel AFB. If anyone can suggest a fix for that , let me know... I am in Northwestern AZ..   it gets up to 105  everyday... The car vapor locks at stop lights.... and the gas in the fuel filter completely turns to vapor when it hits 90 degrees...outside.......I have tried clothes line clips on the fuel line... and a guy with a 49 chevy said to wrap the fuel line in foil.....I do have a spacer between the carb and the manifold,  but,  the gas is vaporizing long before it even gets to the carb...or just park the car and wait for the cooler weather............still was not able to find a radiator shroud to work on the car......the power steering pump  is in the way....so it runs about190 to  210 degrees , running a 160 thermostat.... was told be a guy who builds dragsters to switch to a 180 thermostat so the antifreeze stays in the radiator longer.......any ides on both of these issues?????

 

Thanks,

 

Jay

Kingman , AZ

 

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MARCEL THORIMBERT marcelthorimbert@hotmail.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Jul 30, 2019, 1:26:47 AM7/30/19
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There was some tape a while back we would use to wrap AC lines with, called Virginia Tape. It was separated on the roll by paper, l It was like  sticky black tape. You could ask an AC commercial parts house.

From: classicca...@yahoogroups.com <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of starcommand starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 8:03 PM
To: 'Tom McKenna' trav...@xplornet.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac vapor locking............ [3 Attachments]
 

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