[Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac 331 piston rings

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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 16, 2018, 8:53:15 PM4/16/18
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I need an oil ring for a 331 engine with the ,030 Over pistons. I  just need to do one cylinder, as the engine was totally rebuilt about 10 years ago. The cylinder has good compression...and the spark plug is firing,  but the spark plug is getting oily as compared to the other cylinders where the plugs are bone dry. Also getting a hissing noise from that cylinder leading me to believe I have a bad oil ring . Am getting some oil burning off of the drivers side( where that cylinder is)...when driving on the road, and the engine is hot , especially when you take your foot off of the gas pedal.....going about 60 MPH..


If anyone can point me to who may have the 030 piston rings, it would be greatly appreciated,  or better yet, a sealed power part number..............I really only need to do the one cylinder................if someone out there has just the 3 ring set in .030 over to that one cylinder...............


Thanks,


Jay


Arizona

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Bob bobp8@optonline.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 16, 2018, 9:00:27 PM4/16/18
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Are you sure it’s not a leaking valve seal?


On Apr 16, 2018, at 8:51 PM, starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I need an oil ring for a 331 engine with the ,030 Over pistons. I  just need to do one cylinder, as the engine was totally rebuilt about 10 years ago. The cylinder has good compression...and the spark plug is firing,  but the spark plug is getting oily as compared to the other cylinders where the plugs are bone dry. Also getting a hissing noise from that cylinder leading me to believe I have a bad oil ring . Am getting some oil burning off of the drivers side( where that cylinder is)...when driving on the road, and the engine is hot , especially when you take your foot off of the gas pedal.....going about 60 MPH..


If anyone can point me to who may have the 030 piston rings, it would be greatly appreciated,  or better yet, a sealed power part number..............I really only need to do the one cylinder.................if someone out there has just the 3 ring set in .030 over to that one cylinder...............


Thanks,


Jay


Arizona

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Posted by: Bob <bo...@optonline.net>
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ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 16, 2018, 9:16:55 PM4/16/18
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You have a problem,,pull the head...service the head/valves/guides for that cylinder totally....if its out of specs?to a high degree?maybe thats your issue?....and if you think needed,, pull out the slug and find out if you have a broken ring....also when you pull the head watch for damage on the side wall...broken anything usually shows something????on the side wall of the cylinder,,i bet if you dont see anything wrong with that side wall,,you maybe pulling that piston for nothing....its a gamble...besy pull the slug,i think,,.ive seen many a chevy engines smoke because of bad valve guides...and a leak down wont tell you whats leaking the oil....



On Monday, April 16, 2018 7:53 PM, "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I need an oil ring for a 331 engine with the ,030 Over pistons. I  just need to do one cylinder, as the engine was totally rebuilt about 10 years ago. The cylinder has good compression...and the spark plug is firing,  but the spark plug is getting oily as compared to the other cylinders where the plugs are bone dry. Also getting a hissing noise from that cylinder leading me to believe I have a bad oil ring . Am getting some oil burning off of the drivers side( where that cylinder is)...when driving on the road, and the engine is hot , especially when you take your foot off of the gas pedal.....going about 60 MPH..

If anyone can point me to who may have the 030 piston rings, it would be greatly appreciated,  or better yet, a sealed power part number..............I really only need to do the one cylinder................if someone out there has just the 3 ring set in .030 over to that one cylinder...............

Thanks,

Jay

Arizona


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Posted by: ROBERT F MOONEY <moon...@sbcglobal.net>
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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 16, 2018, 9:26:34 PM4/16/18
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Are you saying the  definate loud  hissing noise coming from that  cylinder area could be a result of a bad valve seal, and a broken oil ring would not be the reason for that springy/ hissing noise? Also I  have to advance the timing in order to prevent the car from shaking/ vibrating (rough idle) in drive with your foot on the brake.....There is  carbon build up on that one  plug,  and oil, even if I use a spark plug anti fouler.............


Thanks,

Jay

P.S. I know the springy/hissing noise is the result  of the dead cylinder  problem, because I did replace all the exhaust manifold gaskets, and even installed new intake manifold gaskets, but that didn't solve the problem...........

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MARCEL THORIMBERT marcelthorimbert@hotmail.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 16, 2018, 9:52:47 PM4/16/18
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check rockauto.com



From: classicca...@yahoogroups.com <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of ROBERT F MOONEY moon...@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 6:16 PM
To: classicca...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac 331 piston rings
 

 

You have a problem,,pull the head...service the head/valves/guides for that cylinder totally....if its out of specs?to a high degree?maybe thats your issue?....and if you think needed,, pull out the slug and find out if you have a broken ring....also when you pull the head watch for damage on the side wall...broken anything usually shows something????on the side wall of the cylinder,,i bet if you dont see anything wrong with that side wall,,you maybe pulling that piston for nothing....its a gamble...besy pull the slug,i think,,.ive seen many a chevy engines smoke because of bad valve guides...and a leak down wont tell you whats leaking the oil....


On Monday, April 16, 2018 7:53 PM, "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I need an oil ring for a 331 engine with the ,030 Over pistons. I  just need to do one cylinder, as the engine was totally rebuilt about 10 years ago. The cylinder has good compression...and the spark plug is firing,  but the spark plug is getting oily as compared to the other cylinders where the plugs are bone dry. Also getting a hissing noise from that cylinder leading me to believe I have a bad oil ring . Am getting some oil burning off of the drivers side( where that cylinder is)...when driving on the road, and the engine is hot , especially when you take your foot off of the gas pedal.....going about 60 MPH..

If anyone can point me to who may have the 030 piston rings, it would be greatly appreciated,  or better yet, a sealed power part number..............I really only need to do the one cylinder................if someone out there has just the 3 ring set in .030 over to that one cylinder...............

Thanks,

Jay

Arizona


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Posted by: MARCEL THORIMBERT <marcelth...@hotmail.com>
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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 16, 2018, 10:18:37 PM4/16/18
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Ok


Will do , thanks for the advice..

I  believe it was you  talked to 12 years ago about a water pump rebuild for a ''''59 Cad,... and sent it to you or someone you advised  for rebuilding... so far so good, still holding up real well....if that wasn't you,  then maybe someone else on here...., 12 years fades the memories................

Jay

Arizona

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ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 17, 2018, 1:08:07 AM4/17/18
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Does it have even compession all 8 cyl???....pull the head..something is wrong with that ctl.....take compr.....put oil in cyl....and take another test....see if the comp changes....if it does its the rings....if not its in the top end.....



On Monday, April 16, 2018 8:26 PM, "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Are you saying the  definate loud  hissing noise coming from that  cylinder area could be a result of a bad valve seal, and a broken oil ring would not be the reason for that springy/ hissing noise? Also I  have to advance the timing in order to prevent the car from shaking/ vibrating (rough idle) in drive with your foot on the brake.....There is  carbon build up on that one  plug,  and oil, even if I use a spark plug anti fouler.............

Thanks,

Jay

P.S. I know the springy/hissing noise is the result  of the dead cylinder  problem, because I did replace all the exhaust manifold gaskets, and even installed new intake manifold gaskets, but that didn't solve the problem...........


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Posted by: ROBERT F MOONEY <moon...@sbcglobal.net>
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redcad59 redcad59@pipeline.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 17, 2018, 10:29:17 AM4/17/18
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I'd really like to know more about the 'Hissing sound.' Details here might prove valuable.

Ron Threadgill
'Miss Scarlett' - 1959 Cadillac ElviSeville DeVilleDorado CoupeVertible Fleetisman D'EleBroughamWood VRX Hybrid

http://www.pipeline.com/~rthreadgill/

Cadillac & LaSalle Club - Central Virginia :
www.CentralVaCadillacLaSalleClub.org


-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bob bo...@optonline.net [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Apr 16, 2018 9:00 PM
>To: classicca...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac 331 piston rings
>

>Are you sure it’s not a leaking valve seal?
>

>> On Apr 16, 2018, at 8:51 PM, starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> I need an oil ring for a 331 engine with the ,030 Over pistons. I just need to do one cylinder, as the engine was totally rebuilt about 10 years ago. The cylinder has good compression...and the spark plug is firing, but the spark plug is getting oily as compared to the other cylinders where the plugs are bone dry. Also getting a hissing noise from that cylinder leading me to believe I have a bad oil ring . Am getting some oil burning off of the drivers side( where that cylinder is)...when driving on the road, and the engine is hot , especially when you take your foot off of the gas pedal......going about 60 MPH..
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone can point me to who may have the 030 piston rings, it would be greatly appreciated, or better yet, a sealed power part number................I really only need to do the one cylinder................if someone out there has just the 3 ring set in .030 over to that one cylinder.................
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>> Arizona
>>
>>

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Posted by: redcad59 <redc...@pipeline.com>
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starcommand starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 17, 2018, 11:14:51 AM4/17/18
to ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat]
 

Yes, it has good compression in all the  cylinders, will try to do a leak down to see if comp reading changes with oil squirted into that cylinder spark plug hole... was totally rebuilt just before I got it 9 years ago. I did have a problem with that same cylinder about 5 years ago.. where it had a bent push rod, which  did replace ... and both the intake and exhaust valves were damaged.. and replaced by a machine shop.. I saw a youtube video where a guy put acetone in the gas for more power and gas mileage... and it must be what caused this problem... Might have a hole in the piston / broken oil ring.  I  can't say for sure till I pull it apart.. I think the hissing noise must be must be a  ring/ piston problem.


On Monday, April 16, 2018, 10:08:05 PM MST, ROBERT F MOONEY moon...@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat] <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

Does it have even compession all 8 cyl???....pull the head..something is wrong with that ctl.....take compr.....put oil in cyl....and take another test....see if the comp changes....if it does its the rings....if not its in the top end.....


On Monday, April 16, 2018 8:26 PM, "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Are you saying the  definate loud  hissing noise coming from that  cylinder area could be a result of a bad valve seal, and a broken oil ring would not be the reason for that springy/ hissing noise? Also I  have to advance the timing in order to prevent the car from shaking/ vibrating (rough idle) in drive with your foot on the brake.....There is  carbon build up on that one  plug,  and oil, even if I use a spark plug anti fouler.............

Thanks,

Jay

P.S. I know the springy/hissing noise is the result  of the dead cylinder  problem, because I did replace all the exhaust manifold gaskets, and even installed new intake manifold gaskets, but that didn't solve the problem...........


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Posted by: starcommand <starcom...@yahoo.com>
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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 19, 2018, 12:05:16 AM4/19/18
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Well actually I did a new comp test on the bad cylinder..... and it was zero! Looked into the spark plug hole with a led flashlight, and saw oil on top of the piston.  I must take off the head and the oil pan. The '54 Cad SVC. Manual says to loosen the idler arm bolts, and remove the stater. I have never done the oil pan removal..... so you don't have to loosen the motor mounts and jack up the harmonic balancer side of the engine  to get the pan off????? Am thinking I have a broken ring... or hole in the piston. Wont find out for sure till I take it apart.....Amazing how good that 331 runs on only 7 cylinders.... 


The springy/ hissing  noise is still a mystery..........

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ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 19, 2018, 1:36:22 AM4/19/18
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take off head and tell what you see.....maybe you bent valve again?



On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:18 PM, "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Well actually I did a new comp test on the bad cylinder..... and it was zero! Looked into the spark plug hole with a led flashlight, and saw oil on top of the piston.  I must take off the head and the oil pan. The '54 Cad SVC. Manual says to loosen the idler arm bolts, and remove the stater. I have never done the oil pan removal..... so you don't have to loosen the motor mounts and jack up the harmonic balancer side of the engine  to get the pan off????? Am thinking I have a broken ring... or hole in the piston. Wont find out for sure till I take it apart.....Amazing how good that 331 runs on only 7 cylinders.... 

The springy/ hissing  noise is still a mystery..........


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Posted by: ROBERT F MOONEY <moon...@sbcglobal.net>
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BOB PODSTAWSKI bobp8@optonline.net [classiccadillacchat]

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Apr 19, 2018, 12:04:16 PM4/19/18
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No need to drop the pan.. Check your push rods for being bent when you disassemble. I think you have valve train issues




On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 01:29 AM, ROBERT F MOONEY moon...@sbcglobal.net [classiccadillacchat] wrote:

 

take off head and tell what you see.....maybe you bent valve again?


On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:18 PM, "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Well actually I did a new comp test on the bad cylinder..... and it was zero! Looked into the spark plug hole with a led flashlight, and saw oil on top of the piston.  I must take off the head and the oil pan. The '54 Cad SVC. Manual says to loosen the idler arm bolts, and remove the stater. I have never done the oil pan removal..... so you don't have to loosen the motor mounts and jack up the harmonic balancer side of the engine  to get the pan off????? Am thinking I have a broken ring... or hole in the piston. Wont find out for sure till I take it apart.....Amazing how good that 331 runs on only 7 cylinders.... 

The springy/ hissing  noise is still a mystery..........


__._,_.___
Posted by: BOB PODSTAWSKI <bo...@optonline.net>
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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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May 22, 2018, 11:52:37 PM5/22/18
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As it turned out,   it was a bent exhaust valve in the 2nd cylinder from the firewall on the drivers side.....Car runs as smooth as silk now..... no more rough idle/car shaking at the stop signs..... or in drive with the foot on the brake.................


I did drop the pan, that was a lot of  fun, especially since I had to remove the taurus cover....and remove the idler arm bracket... to push the tube back in order to get the pan down ....    The original writers of the '54 Cadillac Svc. Manual forgot to tell to drop that taurus cover, you could never drop the pan without removing it..... I removed the piston.... and had the machine shop check the rings, they were ok.....There was a slight scratch on the cylinder wall, the machine shop guy said it should be ok to put together that way ... and he was right...rings sealed and no oil burning.............

The exhaust valve stem was bent.....and it needed a new valve guide.... so the reason for no compression.....

What a learning experience, I also replaced the piston  rod bearing, as it showed  some signs of wear....

At first try..... the front of the oil pan was leaking oil, then I retightened the front 2 nuts (it is hell getting to them with the engine in the car), but it can be done....I used a 1/2" deep socket... and an allen wrench in order to clear the cross member lower frame... Th e drivers side nut was the hardest to get real tight.... After tightening both front pan nuts... presto... no more leaks after I took it out for a ride...Finally running on 8 cylinders now.................what a difference.............................

Jay

Arizona



---In classicca...@yahoogroups.com, <bobp8@...> wrote :

No need to drop the pan.. Check your push rods for being bent when you disassemble. I think you have valve train issues


On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 01:29 AM, ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@... [classiccadillacchat] wrote:

 

take off head and tell what you see.....maybe you bent valve again?


On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:18 PM, "starcommand777@... [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Well actually I did a new comp test on the bad cylinder..... and it was zero! Looked into the spark plug hole with a led flashlight, and saw oil on top of the piston.  I must take off the head and the oil pan. The '54 Cad SVC. Manual says to loosen the idler arm bolts, and remove the stater. I have never done the oil pan removal..... so you don't have to loosen the motor mounts and jack up the harmonic balancer side of the engine  to get the pan off????? Am thinking I have a broken ring... or hole in the piston. Wont find out for sure till I take it apart.....Amazing how good that 331 runs on only 7 cylinders.... 

The springy/ hissing  noise is still a mystery..........


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redcad59 redcad59@pipeline.com [classiccadillacchat]

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May 23, 2018, 12:21:35 PM5/23/18
to classicca...@yahoogroups.com
 

So you put the original piston back in with the Rings that were currently on it ?
How old are the Piston Rings ?
The machine shop said the rings were 'ok' and they were good with you putting it back together that way ?
And all is well ?
I am certainly impressed, as I have always been under the presumption that once Piston Rings have been in an engine for a while, they 'seat' and become 'mated to the relative position they are in, never to be rotated to even the tiniest degree. I also thought it was always necessary to re-hone the cylinders after a piston had been removed, so that the 'new' rings could seat adequately.
BTW, did you discover what bent the Exhaust Valve ? Was there evidence on the Piston of where it might have made contact there ?



Ron Threadgill
'Miss Scarlett' - 1959 Cadillac ElviSeville DeVilleDorado CoupeVertible Fleetisman D'EleBroughamWood VRX Hybrid

http://www.pipeline.com/~rthreadgill/

Cadillac & LaSalle Club - Central Virginia :
www.CentralVaCadillacLaSalleClub.org

-----Original Message-----
>From: "starcom...@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: May 22, 2018 11:52 PM
>To: classicca...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Cadillac] 1954 Cadillac 331 piston rings
>

>As it turned out, it was a bent exhaust valve in the 2nd cylinder from the firewall on the drivers side.....Car runs as smooth as silk now..... no more rough idle/car shaking at the stop signs..... or in drive with the foot on the brake.................
>
> I did drop the pan, that was a lot of fun, especially since I had to remove the taurus cover....and remove the idler arm bracket... to push the tube back in order to get the pan down .... The original writers of the '54 Cadillac Svc. Manual forgot to tell to drop that taurus cover, you could never drop the pan without removing it..... I removed the piston.... and had the machine shop check the rings, they were ok.....There was a slight scratch on the cylinder wall, the machine shop guy said it should be ok to put together that way ... and he was right...rings sealed and no oil burning.............
>
>
> The exhaust valve stem was bent.....and it needed a new valve guide.... so the reason for no compression.....
>
>
> What a learning experience, I also replaced the piston rod bearing, as it showed some signs of wear....
>
>
> At first try..... the front of the oil pan was leaking oil, then I retightened the front 2 nuts (it is hell getting to them with the engine in the car), but it can be done....I used a 1/2" deep socket... and an allen wrench in order to clear the cross member lower frame... Th e drivers side nut was the hardest to get real tight.... After tightening both front pan nuts... presto... no more leaks after I took it out for a ride...Finally running on 8 cylinders now.................what a difference.............................
>
>
> Jay
>
>
> Arizona
>
>
>
>
>---In classicca...@yahoogroups.com, <bobp8@...> wrote :
>
> No need to drop the pan.. Check your push rods for being bent when you disassemble. I think you have valve train issues
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 01:29 AM, ROBERT F MOONEY moon7robe@... [classiccadillacchat] wrote:
>
>
> take off head and tell what you see.....maybe you bent valve again?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 11:18 PM, "starcommand777@... [classiccadillacchat]" <classicca...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well actually I did a new comp test on the bad cylinder..... and it was zero! Looked into the spark plug hole with a led flashlight, and saw oil on top of the piston. I must take off the head and the oil pan. The '54 Cad SVC. Manual says to loosen the idler arm bolts, and remove the stater. I have never done the oil pan removal..... so you don't have to loosen the motor mounts and jack up the harmonic balancer side of the engine to get the pan off????? Am thinking I have a broken ring... or hole in the piston. Wont find out for sure till I take it apart.....Amazing how good that 331 runs on only 7 cylinders....
>
>
> The springy/ hissing noise is still a mystery..........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

__._,_.___
Posted by: redcad59 <redc...@pipeline.com>
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starcommand starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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May 23, 2018, 7:22:32 PM5/23/18
to redcad59 redcad59@pipeline.com [classiccadillacchat]
 

Yes there was evidence of where the exhaust valve kissed the piston, but the piston was ok. Why/ how the valve got bent is still a mystery. The engine was rebuilt before I bought the car in 2009 so it has probably been in the last 12 years sometime as told to me by the guy I purchased the car off of on ebay in 2009. The block was bored out because the pistons are all marked .030 over...............

A good thing to use on the pan gasket and seal,  is weather strip adhesive, it works much better than the permatex indian head cement. I used the 3M black adhesive......It is very important.... because it is very easy to knock the front seal off the pan when reinstalling it.. unless it has a very good bond to the pan..............................

Jay

Arizona

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Posted by: starcommand <starcom...@yahoo.com>
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Bob bobp8@optonline.net [classiccadillacchat]

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May 23, 2018, 7:42:23 PM5/23/18
to classicca...@yahoogroups.com
 

You could have experienced a valve keeper failure which mis-positioned the valve so that it contacted the piston  

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Posted by: Bob <bo...@optonline.net>
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starcommand777@yahoo.com [classiccadillacchat]

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Oct 10, 2018, 10:00:54 AM10/10/18
to classicca...@yahoogroups.com
 

A new exhaust valve for the one cylinder fixed  the issue.... sorry so long in replying...and yes... replaced the piston with old rings..., they were good... the engine was rebuilt just before I bought in 2009....


I could use a dash panel light socket for my '59 Cad... if anyone has one that takes the no. 57 bulb......................email me at starcom...@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Jay


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