Calling All Cuthbert Grant Descendants - Welcome to the Challenge!
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Anita Steele
Jun 12, 2015, 12:04:39 PM6/12/15
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Welcome to the challenge, So Who Are We - Really?
Several years ago, my brother, James Daniel Grant and Cuthbert Grant descendant, James Grant, did Y-DNA tests to determine if there was a link between the two. The results show there is no connection between the families. Since then, a number of other Grants have tested positive matches with my brother's results, which were deemed to be the same line as the Chiefs of Grant. Since then, the Chief, Sir James Grant of Grant has named my brother's cadet line The MacRobbie Grants of Trois-Rivieres, and further testing has resulted in specific 'MacRobbie markers' being identified. This means that in future, a male individual may be identified as a MacRobbie Grant by testing and identifying just these few markers. Also, work is currently underway to determine where, exactly, on the Chiefly line, the MacRobbies appeared.
The Cuthbert Grants are not blood related to the Chiefs of Grant. However, in recognition of the Cuthbert Grants' Scottish origin, and their contribution to Canadian history, the same Chief, Sir James Grant of Grant, has made this line a sept of the Chiefs of Grant. However, in the years since Cuthbert descendant, James Grant, originally did his Y-DNA test, there have been zero other Cuthbert Grant descendants who have completed the tests. This means that in spite of a huge genealogical paper trail, there are no matches to the DNA results, hence zero genetic proof positive confirmations that James Grant is a Cuthbert Grant descendant. Comparison tests with other male Cuthbert Grant descendants are an absolute necessity to do this.
While the genealogy of the Cuthbert Grants of the Canadian fur trade seems to be at least reasonably well recognized, there are a lot of unanswered questions about their lineage predating their arrival in Canada. Their Scottish history is very incomplete. There are only a few known generations prior to their arrival in Canada. Many of Cuthbert Grant descendants are in Manitoba, but there are now many in other parts of Canada and in the U.S. And probably the United Kingdom, but I haven't heard of any.
I recently had a conversation with a gent very knowledgeable about the histories of the Scottish clans, particularly the Grants. Our discussion, specifically, was about the origin of the surname Cuthbert and its use as a given name amongst the Grants. What he said was that it was an English surname, fairly recently (genetically speaking) introduced to Scotland, and the use of it as a Grant given name is indicative of that family's relation with with families with the surname Cuthbert. That seems obvious enough, but it begs the question, "If we are as interested as we say we are in uncovering the Cuthbert Grant historical facts and preserving and promoting the Canadian Cuthbert Grant history, why aren't we doing the obvious and using both Y-DNA to identify which Grant clan it belongs to AND using mtDNA to connect the female DNA to their female ancestors, including, hopefully, the Cuthberts?
I have not a doubt that there's some great discoveries in them thar genes, a broader, more complete picture to be appreciated. I think we have a responsibility, even, to make those discoveries happen.
If you're a Grant and a descendant of Cuthbert Grant please consider doing the DNA test to prove it. Family Tree DNA offers a number of Y and mt DNA tests and even has sales periodically. Their site is: https://www.familytreedna.com/
In advance, thanks for taking the challenge. We will all benefit from the results!
Several years ago, my brother, James Daniel Grant and Cuthbert Grant descendant, James Grant, did Y-DNA tests to determine if there was a link between the two. The results show there is no connection between the families. Since then, a number of other Grants have tested positive matches with my brother's results, which were deemed to be the same line as the Chiefs of Grant. Since then, the Chief, Sir James Grant of Grant has named my brother's cadet line The MacRobbie Grants of Trois-Rivieres, and further testing has resulted in specific 'MacRobbie markers' being identified. This means that in future, a male individual may be identified as a MacRobbie Grant by testing and identifying just these few markers. Also, work is currently underway to determine where, exactly, on the Chiefly line, the MacRobbies appeared.
The Cuthbert Grants are not blood related to the Chiefs of Grant. However, in recognition of the Cuthbert Grants' Scottish origin, and their contribution to Canadian history, the same Chief, Sir James Grant of Grant, has made this line a sept of the Chiefs of Grant. However, in the years since Cuthbert descendant, James Grant, originally did his Y-DNA test, there have been zero other Cuthbert Grant descendants who have completed the tests. This means that in spite of a huge genealogical paper trail, there are no matches to the DNA results, hence zero genetic proof positive confirmations that James Grant is a Cuthbert Grant descendant. Comparison tests with other male Cuthbert Grant descendants are an absolute necessity to do this.
While the genealogy of the Cuthbert Grants of the Canadian fur trade seems to be at least reasonably well recognized, there are a lot of unanswered questions about their lineage predating their arrival in Canada. Their Scottish history is very incomplete. There are only a few known generations prior to their arrival in Canada. Many of Cuthbert Grant descendants are in Manitoba, but there are now many in other parts of Canada and in the U.S. And probably the United Kingdom, but I haven't heard of any.
I recently had a conversation with a gent very knowledgeable about the histories of the Scottish clans, particularly the Grants. Our discussion, specifically, was about the origin of the surname Cuthbert and its use as a given name amongst the Grants. What he said was that it was an English surname, fairly recently (genetically speaking) introduced to Scotland, and the use of it as a Grant given name is indicative of that family's relation with with families with the surname Cuthbert. That seems obvious enough, but it begs the question, "If we are as interested as we say we are in uncovering the Cuthbert Grant historical facts and preserving and promoting the Canadian Cuthbert Grant history, why aren't we doing the obvious and using both Y-DNA to identify which Grant clan it belongs to AND using mtDNA to connect the female DNA to their female ancestors, including, hopefully, the Cuthberts?
I have not a doubt that there's some great discoveries in them thar genes, a broader, more complete picture to be appreciated. I think we have a responsibility, even, to make those discoveries happen.
If you're a Grant and a descendant of Cuthbert Grant please consider doing the DNA test to prove it. Family Tree DNA offers a number of Y and mt DNA tests and even has sales periodically. Their site is: https://www.familytreedna.com/
In advance, thanks for taking the challenge. We will all benefit from the results!
Click here to Reply
horyskia...@gmail.com
Jun 13, 2015, 1:43:24 PM6/13/15
to clangra...@googlegroups.com
I will share this with my groups and SIOL CUDBRIGHT
MARILYN SILVA
Jun 13, 2015, 2:05:52 PM6/13/15
to horyskia...@gmail.com, clangra...@googlegroups.com
Hi Anita and all,
I think this is a great idea! I wanted to let you know also that Ancestry.com DNA is supposed to be available in Canada now. I am very anxious to see if any of my Canadian relatives get tested or have a tree. I have had my mtDNA done on Family Tree DNA also. So I know my maternal line. I will be looking forward to seeing the results of others!
Thanks,
Marilyn Silva
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 10:43:24 -0700
From: horyskia...@gmail.com
To: clangra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [clangrantcanada] Re: Calling All Cuthbert Grant Descendants - Welcome to the Challenge!
I think this is a great idea! I wanted to let you know also that Ancestry.com DNA is supposed to be available in Canada now. I am very anxious to see if any of my Canadian relatives get tested or have a tree. I have had my mtDNA done on Family Tree DNA also. So I know my maternal line. I will be looking forward to seeing the results of others!
Thanks,
Marilyn Silva
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 10:43:24 -0700
From: horyskia...@gmail.com
To: clangra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [clangrantcanada] Re: Calling All Cuthbert Grant Descendants - Welcome to the Challenge!
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Drena Hambrook
Jul 7, 2016, 9:59:37 AM7/7/16
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Drena Hambrook
Jul 7, 2016, 10:04:27 AM7/7/16
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On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 9:04:39 AM UTC-7, Anita Steele wrote:
Click here to Reply Yes I do believe I am a descendant of the Clan Grant through DNA ,my Grandfather is Allyre Grant and a Cuthbert Grant descendant?
Drena Hambrook
Frances Josephine
Aug 25, 2019, 8:23:46 PM8/25/19
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Frances Josephine
Aug 25, 2019, 8:29:09 PM8/25/19
to clangrantcanada
I was reading this post and I was wondering about something. My great, great grandmother was Isabelle Cuthbert and my great, great grandfather was Daniel Grant. They married in Canada, and then came to the states,Buffalo, NY. I guess I am from the best of both worlds! Do I qualify to join Clan Grant?
On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 12:04:39 PM UTC-4, Anita Steele wrote:
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