What's Going On Here?
randomblink
I seem to see several different groups going in several different
directions. I hear the term transparency mentioned, but I see no
"meat" just talk of Transparency Bloggers or stories? I'm interested
in seeing a site that posts up information gleaned directly from
government sites? I am trying to find a Wiki (or what have you) full
of documentation scanned directly from government offices.
I work for local city government where I live and I find it appalling
the things my office and members try to 'keep' from the general
public. I want to find a place where citizens can go to post
documentation they have gotten from their local government via the
Freedom of Information Act?
I would REALLY like to find a funding source / grant / etc to start my
own business. Setup a Wiki, post documentation, etc so that citizens
have access to EVERYTHING being done by their city gov. A watchdog or
what have you. I'm here to find funding / interested parties so I can
get something setup and rolling. If we had something like this started
in a single city, you could setup satellite offices, etc. If there was
already something like this begun? Then I want to 'plug into it' and
get a satellite setup here in my hometown.
I thought that was what this group was about, yet I don't see anything
like that going on here. I see roundups, and bloggers, and opinion
posters. I want facts, scanned copies of original gov documents,
people requesting information from their local gov and being offered a
place to post those docs.
Can anyone help me? Am I in the wrong place? Or am I looking in the
wrong discussions?!
AGK!
Edward Vielmetti
Take a look at
http://a2docs.org
which is I think what you are looking for. Source code here
http://bitbucket.org/bkerr/ann-arbor-government-documents/
thanks
Ed
About the Repository
The Ann Arbor Area Government Document Repository is a place to upload
documents relevant to local governance.
You can use this site to share PDFs, Excel files, PowerPoint
documents, raw data, and other files produced by local governmental
bodies, including the City, County, and School District. Uploaded
documents are given a clean URL that — among many uses — can be shared
via email, posted in online forums, and contributed to local
newspapers.
This site is free to use. There is no registration process, but you
must provide a valid email address. Your email will not be published.
We reserve the right to moderate submissions.
Large documents & collections
If you have large files (more than 50MB per file) or large collections
of files (more than 10), the default upload form may not work for you.
Please contact us directly at in...@arborwiki.org, and we will work
with you to coordinate a batch upload.
Contacts & Credits
The site is a part of the ArborWiki Project to collect local
information. For more information, contact in...@arborwiki.org
The Ann Arbor Chronicle provided encouragement and consultation on
this project. Hosting and technical refinements are provided by Brian
Kerr of Different Chairs. This site is powered by a Django app. The
source code is available under a BSD-style license.
--
Edward Vielmetti
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Google Voice: +1 734 330 2465
Web: http://vielmetti.typepad.com
Lynn Fazekas
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:48:22 -0800
> Subject: [COG] What's Going On Here?
> From: rando...@gmail.com
> To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
randomblink
To Ed:
"About the Repository
The Ann Arbor Area Government Document Repository is a place to upload
documents relevant to local governance."
Whereas I like this concept, it's a single-serving sized option. It
only fits with Ann Arbor Documentation. I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma...
it does me little to no good. I mean I'm gonna poke my head around,
because I would like to see what others are doing. But I envision a
Wiki because then ANYONE can edit it.
I have an idea for a business model where when citizens request
certain documents from the city for ANY REASON, they get a copy to
Transparapedia.com (just made that up, lol) via e-mail or FTP. Then
the people who visit, use, contribute to Transparapedia will access
the original file, convert it to a Wiki entry. Categorize it, file it
in the Wiki, and then it's reference-able. I have worked in the
Engineering departments in my city, I have seen documentation that
concerned citizens groups DESERVE to know about. But those same
citizens groups have no idea it's even there to request a copy of. The
department I work in now gives me access to WAY too much data that I
feel citizens SHOULD BE SEEING... If all of these documents are open
to the public just awaiting their request via the Freedom of
Information Act or whatever, then that's stupid. Because the average
citizen would never even know to request it.
I see a business model wherein a company (transparapedia) makes local
contacts with the secertaries, office admin, etc of local city
government... then with their fingers on the 'pulseline' they know the
documents and/or folders to request digital copies from. Eventually a
relationship could be reached where this organization could maybe get
read-access to all government documents using the same infrastructure
that I GUARANTEE YOU is used by consultants working on large
government projects needing constant access to city files.
THEN... with these documents converted and readable via Wiki format,
THEN you have bloggers able to link to facts and figures taken
DIRECTLY from government documents. Imagine if you could read through
the wording on a contract, and see links IN that contract to the
Contract Number. Opening the Contract Number page you can see ALL the
projects that Contract Account funded. Each one a link to more pages.
You could follow the path of funds, see engineers and managers
responsible for those funds, see the consultants responsible. When you
click on a contractor link you are taken to a Wiki entry for that
contractor and from there you can see links to ALL THE PROJECTS THEY
HAVE WORKED! You could check contractors and see how many projects
they screwed up. With a WikiMap setup you could even go to GIS
coordinates for their projects. See aerial photos of their worksites,
etc.
For every city... every state... every government agency that has
SOMEONE, some concerned citizen (citizen-group) monitoring them.
Uploading files, documenting, tracking,accountability... these
documents should be made available to the world. Give the people a
place to go.
Imagine a local citizen. Opens transparapedia, searches for his
address. Up pops a WikiMap (see http://wikimapia.org/ ). On this map
are symbols for all the city projects planned and executed near him.
Click on these symbols opens those project pages. From the project
pages he could pull up pages covering the individual City employees
involved, their phone numbers, emergency numbers, how much money was
spent on these projects, where that money came from, how much those
contracts were originally bid at and how much they ACTUALY cost, etc.
Dream? Sure, but so was Wikipedia at one time.
This is possible people. With the same technology that Wikipedia is
made from... heck, with a couple thousand dollars I could have this
site setup and running in a few months AND have it loaded with SOME
data from A city. We could be doing this right now.
Instead, we have bloggers blogging with nothing more than hearsay in
their blogs when they could be posting links back to facts and figures
to support their statements...
Is anyone doing this? It would be a whole HELL of a lot easier to plug
into something already started than it would be to start something.
But I'm also willing to start it. I don't think it would work without
at least a few full-time employees, which is why I am searching for
Grant Money, Investments, etc. Couple of hundred thousand would get me
started, chuckle, but I'm working on a business plan to fine tune that
number. I'm talking about a site JUST LIKE Wikipedia. ABSOLUTELY NO
POINT OF VIEW postings, just the facts ma'am.
phew! So that's what I'm here for... is anybody with me? Start digging
for grants that would cover a government watchdog type organization.
We could even start out covering ONE TYPE of government activity if
there aren't any adjustable grant types available. Once the site is
built, templates are created, and data starts flowing... it wouldn't
take anything to open their goal wider and cover all government
activity. You just need the concerned citizens and in THIS day and
age, I'm learning that we are out there... out there and pissed.
So, interested?
Edward Vielmetti
should choose to run it locally for Tulsa.
For Ann Arbor there is also a city wiki, Arborwiki
http://arborwiki.org
which at the moment has about 4500 pages and about 5 years of collected
content on local issues. That's been a helpful framework to help understand
government issues since it gives a place to start tracking news stories over
time and connect the dots when the individual stories don't tell the
whole picture.
thanks
Ed
--
randomblink
is because it's a journalistic site.
Modern Journalism is less interested in the facts than it is in
gathering viewers, paid viewers preferably.
I'm looking for a Wikipedia-styled site. Devoid of opinion. Let me
form my OWN opinion after I've read the facts. Which is why I'm aiming
at a Wiki-styled concept. I appreciate the links, the suggestions,
etc. But I don't think I have found what would be a fit for my idea of
transparency sites yet. But I appreciate the efforts being made, I'll
help out where and when I can, and as always, focus on making my
government more afraid of me than I am of it.
Avelino Maestas
So, we've seen a couple of members recently asking "what does this group offer me?" or similar questions, and trust me, we recognize those concerns. At the same time, we're only just getting off the ground. We're not going to get city governments across the country to publish documents online overnight. Huge systemic shifts will have to occur before we can get to that point, and there are technical and cultural barriers that will have to be overcome.
We're shooting for something larger than a place to upload government documents. We want the government to put that information online in an open format when it's published: not after the fact and not only when we request it. Why should we be the ones uploading this information?
Convincing administrators and elected officials at the local level won't be easy. We've been doing this in Washington for several years now, and we took up a fight that others have been fighting for much longer. Public opinion has clearly been on our side since Sunlight opened its doors, and Congress controls the ultimate pocketbook.
While we've seen some incredible success in the past three years, we've also seen how resistant some players can be to change. We've seen how enthusiastic supporters within government can be stymied by institutional roadblocks. Even with tremendous pressure from the highest office in the land, we know that government employees will have to unlearn decades of secretive practices before we approach an "open" administration.
You're members of this group because you want to be leaders in this campaign, and we want you to take on that role. Lynn, we don't want this to be a top-down movement, and couldn't pull that off even if we wanted. There's simply too much to keep track of—telling everybody what to do in every state and every county and every municipality would be impossible.
But regardless of the logistics, we recognize that you're the experts when it comes to your local governments. We also know that what works in one community might not work in another. Our campaign will have to be flexible and one rooted in adaptation: identifying best practices and then evolving so we can implement them in other cities and states.
In short, it's a daunting task. We welcome the challenge because our allies are people like those on this list. We need e-mails like those in this thread, where you identify what you want. We can't tell you that! But we can help each other get there.
We also need bloggers and journalists and people who work in transparency 9-5: these are the people who will help us build critical mass. I've seen governments dismiss the lone activist, because she is alone. But if we can connect muckraking bloggers with reporters and spread a story into the community, that activist becomes harder to ignore.
Again, this is just the beginning. You're here because you don't need any convincing. But Sunlight hasn't officially launched the campaign yet. We're getting ready, but a big part is identifying what needs to be done, and that's where you come in. So yes, tell us what you want, and tell us what you need. And let us know how we can help each other.
-Avelino
_____________________
Avelino Maestas
Community Manager
The Sunlight Foundation
amae...@sunlightfoundation.com
Joe Germuska
>
> The reason that I wouldn't use the system used by the Ann Arbor site
> is because it's a journalistic site.
Huh? What's journalistic about a2docs? It seems pretty devoid of
opinion. Sure, the AA Chronicle "provided encouragement and
consultation," but I don't understand how that diminishes the site.
Nevertheless, I appreciate your expansive vision.
To Lynn: I also appreciate your call for a movement that sustains a
role for grassroots contributors. I'm not exactly a professional in
the "transparency business." I work for a newspaper which means my
employer has some interest in this stuff, but open government activism
isn't part of my job description. In my spare time, I've been trying
to organize Chicago-area folks interested in open government, and one
of my visions when I talk about "open government" is a system that
supports civic engagement from people who can't be full-time
activists. I'm not sure I want to become one myself!
Have you spent any time with Transparency Corps?
http://transparencycorps.org/ Does that fit what you have in mind?
I'm not sure how they've been identifying projects but I think the
basic idea is pretty cool.
Joe
PS As far as I'm concerned, Illinois-scale issues are fair game for
OpenGov Chicago, so if you want to work on stuff like that, sign up
for our mailing list and help us figure out how to make things happen
in IL. http://groups.google.com/group/OpenGovChicago
--
Joe Germuska
J...@Germuska.com * http://blog.germuska.com
"I felt so good I told the leader how to follow."
-- Sly Stone
Kristen Pecoraro
Right off the bat, I'm not sure I understand the "either/or" premise. It's not like it's the Borg vs. the Neos. Doesn't it have to be both, really? A group of experienced transparency/open government advocates started this citizen group a month ago to expand the reach and eventual impact of this movement. But they didn't start the whole movement..... "we" all did that in the last couple of decades as, increasingly, people are seeing that government the way it is doesn't work for us AND technology has enabled us to start to fix that. If the ultimate goal -- Open Government -- is relatively enormous, don't you need lots discussion on topics like goals, vision, audience, etc., with LOTS of input, to create a better working framework? .... and discussion by lots of "groups" that ultimately come together? It's a pain to have to spend time on the "theoretical" but, man, if no one does it, LASTING movements tend to lose the opportunity to unite around common values. STRENGTH & UNITY = Framework of Shared Vision and Goals. Eventually, you don't need The Movement b/c it's vision and goals are so commonplace, they're self-evident (until the next time we need a Reminder.)
Plus, Wow. The group started like a month ago today. I joined right away but was on vacation and couldn't post until 2-11, 2 weeks ago. But in the last two weeks, here's what I've contributed to this "collaborative" effort :
randomblink
sound like perhaps you're just really frustrated b/c you're motivated.
enthusiastic and you're feeling like you can't get done what you want
to do, BUT. Do you really think that that is a true statement. My
goodness, that one left me a bit speechless b/c it's the complete
opposite of so many bloggers and websites that I read. :-)"
I get a little headstrong, forgive my enthusiasm... lol. I should have
clarified. I am frustrated. I watch the very people my tax money pays
squander those resources for their little kingdoms and it's
frustrating to say the least.
What I was trying to say is this...
The bloggers that I read post stories. They don't reference scanned
documents to back up their claims, they repeat statements they've
heard or read. It seems so many of the bloggers (locally at least, I
should have said that at first) just post opinions, things that most
people 'kinda remember hearing on the radio or whatever' and it's
never something you can go and back up with facts or anything. I
wasn't insulting the site, believe me... just frustrated. I think that
if people had access to legit documents things could 'start' to
change.
I'll slow it down, take a deep breath, and take a better look around.
I'm sorry if I got a little headstrong, I'll chill.
Thanks for listening tho...
randomblink
> documents. We want the government to put that information online in an open
> format when it's published: not after the fact and not only when we request
> it. Why should we be the ones uploading this information?
>
> _____________________
> Avelino Maestas
> Community Manager
> The Sunlight Foundation
Ok, I agreed and appreciated the rest of your post, but I have to ask
if you're serious about this? Rely on the government to point out
government over-expenditures, mistakes and even (god forbid) illegal
activity? If you worked for government and you made a decision that
wasted millions of dollars would YOU post it happily or would you find
ANY REASON YOU COULD THINK OF TO MAKE THOSE DOCUMENTS DISAPPEAR? I
mean seriously, this comes across as quite the naive concept.
I mean even if you got legislation that made the server files
available READ-ONLY for all citizens, for all government offices,
nationwide... so that you, or I could visit, read through, print out,
and even link to all files on all government servers... I guarantee
you the government offices would acquire alternative means of storing
"sensitive" documents. Sensitive = Any files they feel the public
doesn't "need" access to.
What kind of watchdog agency is too lazy to get the files but instead
to rely only on the government to "fess up" to everything they're
doing?
No offense here, but that doesn't add up in my book. It just doesn't
equate.
If we want the government to accountable for their actions, we can't
rely on them to show their cards. We have to be the ones to acquire
those cards by playing the game with them. I work in City Government
for Tulsa, Oklahoma. The man who was previously in my bosses, bosses
position and another individual from a building less than 40 feet from
mine were just indicted in FBI charges:
http://oklahomacity.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel09/oc012209a.htm
Do you think THEY would have made those documents available on the
servers for all the public to access them?
If you even pretend to answer yes then you really don't belong with a
group fighting for transparency because your naivete is overwhelming.
Expecting the government to make certain types of files available on a
regular basis is a great idea. Expecting reports and files of a
certain nature to be posted regularly is exactly the kind of thing
they should already be doing and is a worthy goal to pursue for those
offices that don't do that already. But for every file they post,
there are 20 more they would rather the public not have access to...
trust me. I know.
Knowing the server structures, file and folder layouts, knowing the
people to talk to, knowing the right questions to ask and the right
files / folders to request copies of... this is how we are going to
make our government accountable. Leaving it up to them is a sadly
naive idea and if that's ALL that this organization is about? I really
don't think I should waste too much more of your time.
In my office alone, we have the file and folder structure of a drunk
mongoose. You would think a 1,000 monkeys had started banging on
keyboards, creating files and folders without any regards to
organization, unity, cohesive trains of thought. They are 'work'
files. Some of them contain data that would serve the public if they
were ever released. Some of those files are junk, created for a
purpose (R&D, testing, etc) and should probably be deleted now that
they are irrelevant. My point is, with someone like myself as a
contact for a Watchdog agency I could alert, legally, people as to
what files would be a benefit to the public to be made available. If I
relied on management to decide? They would never have the time.
Everyone is rushed, we are all trying to hold onto our jobs, show our
worth, in this economic time. We just had a sweeping cut of 60+ jobs
in my City Government offices. If you think that management would
intelligently make certain files and folders available after careful
study and consideration? Heck no. No one has time for that. That's why
we as concerned citizens have to request these documents from the
agencies created to provide them... on demand. No government office
could afford to create a position to just sit and make those files
available. Most offices would not make those files available for years
because they "weren't ready yet" and thus the public wouldn't gain
access until too late to do anything about the information contained
therein?!
How many of the people working this "transparency job" as I've seen
mentioned here have EVER worked in a government office?
I think this would be a very important question to have answered.
If you had explained to me before I took this job that government does
the things that I now know to be true... I would have laughed and said
you were paranoid. Local Government has nothing to hide?! Just the big
government... Right?
randomblink
I'm home with a sick wife today, so I've got free time between playing
doctor... and not the fun kind :-(
I should clarify here. I wasn't truly aware that Sunshine hadn't taken
off. I am learning about the system being built and I definitely want
to learn more. I just joined the wiki site and am digging around.
I am also highly frustrated. I am an office tech worker who has worked
local city government for almost a decade. I've had co-workers buy me
lunch one year and get busted by the FBI a couple years later. I've
watched a lot of things go down actually... both good and bad. Unlike
the private sector the thing that keeps punching me in the face is the
accountability. I don't see it. Private sector owes stock holders and/
or Presidents. Government owes all citizens.
Yet I don't see it.
I see people trying to project the image they feel they deserve,
rather than present the public with facts and figures and letting the
public make up their own mind.
I feel that if government workers knew that at any moment every
digital file they create could be made public... they might just take
a moment before shooting off that e-mail, or writing that memo... I
would like to be a part of the momentum moving through our society
that is demanding more from their government. I'm furstrated with what
I've seen be made available to the public compared to what could have
been made available.
So here I am...
Ernestine
On Friday, March 19, from 12:00 to 2:00 PM (ET), the League of Women Voters
Education Fund will co-host the 5th Annual Sunshine Week National Dialogue.
The event will be broadcast live via the web. Local organization and local
Leagues are encouraged to host "viewing parties" in their communities -
perhaps in conjunction with a local, university or law library. This year's
program, "Building Transparency," will focus on transparency in the Obama
administration - what has changed and what remains to be done. High-level
government officials including Norm Eisen, Special Counsel to the President
for Ethics and Government Reform, and Miriam Nisbet, Director of the new
Office of Government Information Services (OGIS), will discuss the
Administration's new initiatives and their effect on the public. Panelists
will also take questions from the live and viewing audience. To learn more
about the event, visit our partner organization, OpenTheGovernment.org.
Note: Sunshine Week starts on the Ides of March! :-)
Ernestine Krehbiel
President
League of Women Voters of Kansas
618 S. Kansas Ave, Suite B
Topeka, Kansas 66604
785-234-5152
lw...@sbcglobal.net / lwvk.org
Kristen Pecoraro
what files would be a benefit to the public to be made available."
people to talk to, knowing the right questions to ask and the right
files / folders to request copies of...
Gabriela Schneider
Thanks for mentioning this! Our Policy Director John Wonderlich will be on this panel, as well.
For those interested in the event and webcast, here's more information from OpentheGovernment.org:
http://www.openthegovernment.org/article/articleview/420/
Best,
Gabriela
Gabriela Schneider
Communications Director
Sunlight Foundation
1818 N Street, NW Suite 300
WDC 20036
p: 202/742-1520 x 236
c: 202/746-0439
gschn...@sunlightfoundation.com
http://sunlightfoundation.com
http://twitter.com/stereogab
Nisha Thompson
This has been an incredible discussion. It is really really important to be able to express frustration. What government keeps from the public is wrong, it feels like betrayal. We need everyone to be able to verbalize and communicate those feelings to everyone they meet. We need people who can write it down, as well as, shout it from a mountain top. We will move people with that emotion. I’m happy the people in this group can express it, as leaders, we will all need to be able to say these things and help other talk about their concerns. Also Thank you Kristen for the inspiring email responses.
The next biggest part of the campaign is to move from frustration to action. Yes, Sunlight has been vague considering there is an incredible amount we have to get done, it might be frustrating in its own right. But that is the POINT of this list and the Wiki. We are collecting frustration and finding ways to turn it into action.
We at Sunlight don’t have all the answers; we barely have all the questions. However one question should be center: What does a transparent government look like? Everything we do will go back to this. When you go to town meetings and read about your government you should be able to say. It SHOULD be this way. That is how we control the conversation. They have the excuses and we have the solutions.
Lynn –
Give me databases, indexes, scanned documents to look up online at midnight. Help me hook up with other local activists to trade stories and other information.
You just gave us action items. We can do this. Let’s start collecting information on what data should be databased, indexed, and scanned. What are you missing? What do you need? Let’s find out who is in charge of giving us that information. Let’s find out who can help us get it and who will try to keep it out of public domain. Let’s organize a way get the activists in your area together at a Happy Hour or on an evening call and answer these questions. Then we can figure out how Sunlight can help place an editorial or op ed in the local paper. Ask Joe what his work in Chicago is looking like and what problems they are having. Tell them about DeKalb and what problems are similar across the state so you can help the next town over when they are ready for change.
You just told us what you want out of this campaign. We are going to work towards that. If you don’t have the time to go after all those things, that is where we come in to make some phone calls and gather information. How does that sound?
RandomBlink –
If we want the government to accountable for their actions, we can't rely on them to show their cards. We have to be the ones to acquire those cards by playing the game with them.
You just stated the point of COG. You have a lot of valuable experience and an incredible project idea. Now you are here and we can help you with resources. Have you heard of Carl Malamud’s project http://public.resource.org/ or http://freegovinfo.info/ or http://www.governmentdocs.org/ or http://www.documentcloud.org/. Now the thought that journalism is inherently bad should be debated but we can save that for another time. But you have said a lot about the need for those in this “transparency job’ to have worked in government. Given your passion for government information disclosure I would say you have a “transparency job.” The people in government who want things to be better are part of this too. We need you to share your experience. Kristen is spot on! Her suggestions are exactly what we need from you.
You have an incredibly perspective! Share it. Who are our allies? What are the roadblocks? How many people do you need to send a letter or sign a petition that will make a difference? And an aside Tulsa has an interesting track record (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFRzJY338Yc). From the inside you can share what they need to hear? More FOIA requests? Fine let’s organize a FOIA request a thon and see how they respond. Let’s see what documents they won’t release, what formats are they in, and why they aren’t on the Web site. Can we set up a Transparency Corp task? http://transparencycorps.org/ Would that help?
So a question for everyone is…
What does a transparent government look like?
Nisha Thompson
Lynn Fazekas
> Subject: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?
> From: rando...@gmail.com
> To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
>
Edwin Bender
I know, from experience, the “must be dragged kicking and screaming into the open” world. That has been what we at the National Institute on Money in State Politics have been dealing with for nearly 20 years. At first, when we were a regional organization compiling campaign-finance data in eight northwestern states, our biggest obstacles were often the secretaries who answered the phones and fulfilled information requests. On many occasions, a secretary would tell us we couldn’t get information because they couldn’t copy a Word document on a disk (circa 1994). In Nevada, we were told by folks in the Secretary of State’s office that the data didn’t exist. We found out years later, after cultivating contacts in the office, that the SOS had been building the database for internal use. We eventually got a copy. In Colorado, we were told we’d have to pay $20,000 for a copy of public data, but eventually we got it for free by finding the right person. In Utah, they built a wonderful campaign-finance disclosure web site, only to close it down for the exact length of the next legislative session. (Even now, as Utah touts itself as one of the most transparency and innovative state governments in the country, its politically related information is still buried ....)
Showing what innovative governmental agencies are doing well, and shouting the benefits of it from rooftops, is some of the most important work to be done with transparency now. Reward the good to the extreme. Ensuring that those who want to close doors and lock file draws are called on it is not to be neglected either.
In the world of campaign-finance disclosure, the world is markedly different today than it was just a decade ago, due largely to public demand for information. That’s the lever, here.
Opie kicked rocks down the road in Mayberry. Eventually he became one of the most influential movie directors in the world. Who knew.
Edwin Bender
www.followthemoney.org
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/>
Edwin Bender
Executive Director
National Institute on Money in State Politics
833 N Last Chance Gulch
Helena, MT 59601
edw...@statemoney.org
406 449-2480
406 457-2091 FAX
www.followthemoney.org
Twitter: @EHBender
Ernestine
Ernestine Krehbiel
League of Women Voters of Kansas
Edward Vielmetti
a 24x7 news site and twice weekly newspaper in Ann Arbor, Michigan. thanks Ed
--
Brad Bauman
Gabriela Schneider
Boy have I been enjoying our conversations here.
I'm Gabriela Schneider, Sunlight's Communications Director.
I'm also @stereogab on Twitter: http://twitter.com/stereogab
Avelino Maestas
-Avelino
_____________________
Avelino Maestas
Community Manager
The Sunlight Foundation
Ton Zijlstra
-------------------------------------------
Interdependent Thoughts
Ton Zijlstra
t...@tonzijlstra.eu
+31-6-34489360
http://zylstra.org/blog
-------------------------------------------
Douglas Ward
I'm Doug Ward. I'm a developer and business owner working in
Washington, DC.
Doug Ward
Founder and Principal
The Waters Ward Company, LLC
www.watersward.com
Email: doug...@watersward.com
URL: http://www.opengovblog.us
Twitter: http://twitter.com/OpenGovBlog
..........................
Doug Ward is Founder & Principal of The Waters Ward Company, LLC, a
Washington, DC based web development firm helping government, small
business, and non-profits leverage Web 2.0 and collaborative
technologies to meet critical mission objectives and solve complex
problems.
On Mar 3, 1:23 pm, Ton Zijlstra <ton.zijls...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My name is Ton Zijlstra. Live in the Netherlands and work(ed) on several
> open government data projects in different places within the European Union.
>
> best,
>
> Ton
> -------------------------------------------
> Interdependent Thoughts
> Ton Zijlstra
>
> t...@tonzijlstra.eu
> +31-6-34489360
>
> http://zylstra.org/blog
> -------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Avelino Maestas <
>
> amaes...@sunlightfoundation.com> wrote:
> > Hey everybody. I'm the community manager for Sunlight. I'm originally from
> > New Mexico, live in Maryland, and work in D.C.
>
> > -Avelino
> > _____________________
> > Avelino Maestas
> > Community Manager
> > The Sunlight Foundation
Christopher Renner
Nisha Thompson
I’m Nisha Thompson the Online Organizer for the Sunlight Foundation. I’m from New Jersey, did political work in Boston, MA, and am now with Sunlight in DC.
Joe Germuska
I would appreciate if participants on this group would identify themselves, at least the state they come from. But it would be helpful if you work with a group or org. for openness that you put that too.
Tom Scherer
Eric Lykins
http://www.facebook.com/ericlykins
http://twitter.com/EricLykins
Knoxville, Tennessee
Tom Scherer
Edwin Bender
On 3/3/10 12:03 PM, "Eric Lykins" <ericsco...@gmail.com> wrote:
Eric Lykins, "new media journalist" (or something like that <http://www.knoxviews.org/node/10626> ) at KnoxViews/TennViews <http://www.knoxviews.com/blog/2186>
http://www.facebook.com/ericlykins
http://twitter.com/EricLykins
Knoxville, Tennessee
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Nisha Thompson <ntho...@sunlightfoundation.com> wrote:
I’m Nisha Thompson the Online Organizer for the Sunlight Foundation. I’m from New Jersey, did political work in Boston, MA, and am now with Sunlight in DC.
From: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com [mailto:citizens-f...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ernestine
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 12:50 PM
To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [COG] identify yourselves?
I would appreciate if participants on this group would identify themselves, at least the state they come from. But it would be helpful if you work with a group or org. for openness that you put that too.
Thanks
Ernestine Krehbiel
League of Women Voters of Kansas
http://www.lwvk.org/ <http://www.lwvk.org/>
----- Original Message -----
From: Edwin Bender <mailto:edw...@statemoney.org>
To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?
Points well made, Lynn. But it is important to remember, as this group voices its hopes and frustrations at moving toward more open governments, that this will be a long haul. Many folks will drop out. Hopefully, many more will join. As long as we keep up pressure and build demand for the information, more and more recalcitrant officials, elected and appointed, will move with the tide.
I know, from experience, the “must be dragged kicking and screaming into the open” world. That has been what we at the National Institute on Money in State Politics have been dealing with for nearly 20 years. At first, when we were a regional organization compiling campaign-finance data in eight northwestern states, our biggest obstacles were often the secretaries who answered the phones and fulfilled information requests. On many occasions, a secretary would tell us we couldn’t get information because they couldn’t copy a Word document on a disk (circa 1994). In Nevada, we were told by folks in the Secretary of State’s office that the data didn’t exist. We found out years later, after cultivating contacts in the office, that the SOS had been building the database for internal use. We eventually got a copy. In Colorado, we were told we’d have to pay $20,000 for a copy of public data, but eventually we got it for free by finding the right person. In Utah, they built a wonderful campaign-finance disclosure web site, only to close it down for the exact length of the next legislative session. (Even now, as Utah touts itself as one of the most transparency and innovative state governments in the country, its politically related information is still buried ....)
Showing what innovative governmental agencies are doing well, and shouting the benefits of it from rooftops, is some of the most important work to be done with transparency now. Reward the good to the extreme. Ensuring that those who want to close doors and lock file draws are called on it is not to be neglected either.
In the world of campaign-finance disclosure, the world is markedly different today than it was just a decade ago, due largely to public demand for information. That’s the lever, here.
Opie kicked rocks down the road in Mayberry. Eventually he became one of the most influential movie directors in the world. Who knew.
Edwin Bender
Relevant documentation put online in a timely matter. "Relevant" is as important a point as the rest. When they know we're looking, they tend to try to bury the meat amid a "flurry" of paper. And they DO withhold. I've actually had copies documents in hand from anonymous sources that I couldn't obtain through FOIA. So, yeah, it's gonna have to be us doing a lot of this work, at least for awhile.
Chris Carella
creative director. I've founded my latest startup, Super + Fun, in
February 2010 to build games and funware. Previous to that I was the
Chief Creative Officer for The Electric Sheep Company, an Emmy
award-winning virtual worlds and social games media company.
My general interests in this list is that I'm passionate about using
game mechanics and incentive structures to drive user/player/human
behavior. I'm specifically interested in using game mechanics to
promote non-partisan civic discourse and combat the polarizing
partisan media. Data should be as non-partisan as it gets.
Follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/ccarella
LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/chriscarella
My Blog - http://chriscarella.com/
--
Chris Carella
Social Design & Creative Direction
703.400.6533
ccar...@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ccarella
janos marton
for a work project. Haven't had time to post anything here, but
supportive of the group's measures. No experience in the open
government movement, but lots of political organizing in the past.
Sarah Burris
Lynn Fazekas
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:06:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?
From: edw...@statemoney.org
To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
Edwin Bender
Isn’t the point of this group finding ways around the leashed-enforcement dogs, who have teeth but don’t or can’t use ‘em? That’s what we at the Institute have faced so many years, and I’m sure you’re all too familiar with also ...
Edwin Bender
On 3/4/10 4:42 AM, "Lynn Fazekas" <lynnf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
FYI I'm no stranger to the long haul, Edwin. I don't need that lecture.
And I am cognizant of the fact that, if my government does something right, it needs to be said. I helped make a Transparency Award to city government awhile back, for instance.
But I still maintain that, if we have no enforcement -- and we do not -- we are spinning our wheels.
LF
Lynn A. Fazekas
Training Developer & Consultant
DD Adult Services
815-756-3617
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:06:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?
From: edw...@statemoney.org
To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
Re: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here? Points well made, Lynn. But it is important to remember, as this group voices its hopes and frustrations at moving toward more open governments, that this will be a long haul. Many folks will drop out. Hopefully, many more will join. As long as we keep up pressure and build demand for the information, more and more recalcitrant officials, elected and appointed, will move with the tide.
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/>
Kohl S. Gill
a blogger, kohlgill.blogspot.com
a former employee of the U.S. State Department (Labor Rights, South
Asia, Middle East)
a former contractor with the U.S. Department of Energy (Office of
Science)
a former paralegal transparency activist (Indian Right to Information,
Delhi)
and I live in the Silicon Valley area.
In this forum, I'm most interested in advancing local transparency
here and helping folks everywhere to engage in foreign affairs and
international human rights issues.
Cheers,
Kohl
(925) 456-4574
Sunnyvale, CA
kohlgill.wikispaces.com
Jed
I advise USA.gov and GobiernoUSA.gov on how to use social media and
general Internet things. We (USA.gov & friends) built Go.USA.gov,
which creates short .gov URLs. I'm pretty proud of it and have high
hopes for it. To be clear: I'm a contractor, so no one should think I
speak on behalf of GSA, USA.gov or GobiernoUSA.gov.
I grew up in Silver Spring, but live in San Diego now. I'm interested
in telling stories with San Diego data, and am trying to figure out
how to do that in my (extremely) limited free time. Hopefully I'll get
some ideas from you guys!
I <3 the Sunlight Foundation!
Blog: http://jedsundwall.com/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jedsundwall
On Mar 3, 10:34 am, Douglas Ward <dougw...@watersward.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm Doug Ward. I'm a developer and business owner working in
> Washington, DC.
>
> Doug Ward
>
> Founder and Principal
> The Waters Ward Company, LLCwww.watersward.com
>
> Email: dougw...@watersward.com
Tina Lee
I'm Tina Lee, a grad student and fellow at DataSF.org, a project out
of the City and County of San Francisco's Open Gov initiative. I'm
currently obtaining an M.A. in Education at Stanford's School of
Education, where my studies are focused on how technology can be used
to increase and enhance learning outcomes, both in formal and informal
learning environments. The program I'm doing is called Learning,
Design and Technology, and my specific research area lies at the
intersection of technology and civic engagement, in particular how
mobile technologies can facilitate increased political participation.
I see the Open Gov movement as a great opportunity to redefine and
expand the public sphere, a movement with the potential to pull in
more voices while creating more channels for engagement.
I look forward to working with all of you to reinvent government and
expand civic discourse.
Tina Lee
On Mar 3, 9:49 am, "Ernestine" <ekrehb...@cox.net> wrote:
> Re: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?I would appreciate if participants on this group would identify themselves, at least the state they come from. But it would be helpful if you work with a group or org. for openness that you put that too.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ernestine Krehbiel
> League of Women Voters of Kansashttp://www.lwvk.org/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edwin Bender
> To: citizens-f...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?
>
> Points well made, Lynn. But it is important to remember, as this group voices its hopes and frustrations at moving toward more open governments, that this will be a long haul. Many folks will drop out. Hopefully, many more will join. As long as we keep up pressure and build demand for the information, more and more recalcitrant officials, elected and appointed, will move with the tide.
>
> I know, from experience, the "must be dragged kicking and screaming into the open" world. That has been what we at the National Institute on Money in State Politics have been dealing with for nearly 20 years. At first, when we were a regional organization compiling campaign-finance data in eight northwestern states, our biggest obstacles were often the secretaries who answered the phones and fulfilled information requests. On many occasions, a secretary would tell us we couldn't get information because they couldn't copy a Word document on a disk (circa 1994). In Nevada, we were told by folks in the Secretary of State's office that the data didn't exist. We found out years later, after cultivating contacts in the office, that the SOS had been building the database for internal use. We eventually got a copy. In Colorado, we were told we'd have to pay $20,000 for a copy of public data, but eventually we got it for free by finding the right person. In Utah, they built a wonderful campaign-finance disclosure web site, only to close it down for the exact length of the next legislative session. (Even now, as Utah touts itself as one of the most transparency and innovative state governments in the country, its politically related information is still buried ....)
>
> Showing what innovative governmental agencies are doing well, and shouting the benefits of it from rooftops, is some of the most important work to be done with transparency now. Reward the good to the extreme. Ensuring that those who want to close doors and lock file draws are called on it is not to be neglected either.
>
> In the world of campaign-finance disclosure, the world is markedly different today than it was just a decade ago, due largely to public demand for information. That's the lever, here.
>
> Opie kicked rocks down the road in Mayberry. Eventually he became one of the most influential movie directors in the world. Who knew.
>
> Edwin Bender
> www.followthemoney.org
>
> On 3/2/10 7:49 AM, "Lynn Fazekas" <lynnfaze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Some folks might live in Mayberry, but I sure don't. Government bodies in DeKalb County, as a rule, are not looking for win-win. They must be dragged kicking and screaming into the open and we need help in at least three areas.
>
> 1) Relevant documentation put online in a timely matter. "Relevant" is as important a point as the rest. When they know we're looking, they tend to try to bury the meat amid a "flurry" of paper. And they DO withhold. I've actually had copies documents in hand from anonymous sources that I couldn't obtain through FOIA. So, yeah, it's gonna have to be us doing a lot of this work, at least for awhile.
>
> 2) Defense of FOIA and OMA laws. Government bodies are pressuring state legislators to weaken the new Illinois rules as we speak.
>
> 3) Enforcement. Guess what? Even if transparency measures uncover actual wrongdoing, you need someone in the State's Attorney's office who is willing to investigate it. That never happens, so government has learned it can act with impunity.
>
> LF
>
> Lynn A. Fazekas
> Training Developer & Consultant
> DD Adult Services
> 815-756-3617
>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:01:01 -0800
> > Subject: [COG] Re: What's Going On Here?
> > From: randombl...@gmail.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Joshua Gay
I am a programmer, activist, and online community organizer. My
interests revolve around technology, government, education, and user-
freedom.
-- affiliations --
CK-12 Foundation www.ck12.org
The League of Technical Voters www.leagueoftechvoters.org
www.citability.org
Textbook Revolution www.textbookrevolution.org
One Laptop per Child wiki.laptop.org
Free Software Foundation www.fsf.org
-- contact --
AIM: Joshua Moose
Twitter and Identi.ca: JoshuaGay
James Salsman
educational software. Lately I've been trying to accomplish
http://bit.ly/assessCont to add collaborative, crowdsourced vetting of
assessment content for low-stakes, learner-adaptive, self-study
enhancements to Wikiversity's Quiz Module extension of Mediawiki. I
am also working on open source speech recognition for reading tutoring
and pronunciation assessment as described on http://tinyurl.com/osl08
-- there is a demo video you can see at http://talknicer.com/d and an
online demo you can try yourself at http://talknicer.com/d/index.cgi
-- I am currently working on the microphone upload part of that for
quick client/server turn-around. I've been working on both those
educational issues for almost 15 years now.
I also want to see more effective open government in economics. You
can see my Treasury OpenGov petition at http://bit.ly/TreasuryConsumersBillOfRights
-- or the better linked version at http://bit.ly/TCBoR -- please take
a moment to read and vote "thumbs up" -- the sad fact is that the
world economy is suffering because of what the U.S. Congress did to
the international commercial paper markets in September, 2008 --
http://bit.ly/econFail -- and if we don't fix it and repair the
commercial and residential real estate credit markets, the effect
could be three times worse over the next year as the housing bubble
was over the past two years. I've been working on those economic
problems since October, 2008.
In addition to open educational resources and economics, I am also
interested in open government for uranium toxicity. It turns out that
the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, along with the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission and Centers for Disease Control, has been using
a formula for uranium toxicity which only considers its very mild
radioactivity and nephrotoxicity (chemical toxicity to the kidneys)
but not is much more substantial chemical carcinogenicity,
mutagenicity, genotoxicity, immunotoxicity, and neurotoxicity. I've
been working on those issues since about 2004 when I saw a story about
the use of depleted uranium in Iraq in 1991 and 2003. The good news,
if you could call it that, is that coal produces about 1000 times as
much environmental uranium as nuclear power generation does, so if the
EPA starts regulating it, maybe 30% renewable power by 2020 --
http://bit.ly30by2020 -- will happen more than just in Colorado (where
it will happen "with or without legislation" there, according to that
article) and that will be on schedule for 100% renewable power by
2030, e.g. http://100by2030
I am interested in contacting others interested in these ideas, so if
you see something you like, please respond and let me know by cc to
jsal...@gmail.com Thanks!
James Salsman
http://bit.ly/100by2030 . A good url for uranium toxicity issues is
at
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uranium&oldid=348116758#Human_exposure
-jsalsman
JackHarris
and model legislation on transparency and opengov at the local and
county level. Eventually interested in implementing some of these
practices and tools in NJ on a pilot basis to help drive fuller
disclosure around contracts, bids, vendors and professional services.
I'm also a grad student at Rutgers School of Communication &
Information and very interested in collaboration processes between
stakeholders and the impact of social capital on participation and
decision-making.
Currently an independent consultant working on various strategic
research and communications projects.
Barry Kendall
Hi friends,
I'm late to the party, but it appears this is the thread for
introductions, si? So here we go: I am one of those 9-to-5ers who
works in the world of politics and policy on a full-time basis. I am
the Executive Director of the Progressive Ideas Network, which is an
alliance of over 35 different think tanks, mostly operating at a
national level, and located around the country.
As I see it, the transparency and open government movements take
policy analysis work that was formerly limited largely to think tanks
and makes it accessible to a much broader segment of the public. This
represents an opportunity for think tanks to reconsider the way that
we do our work, and what our best role might be supporting, shaping,
and leveraging the power of crowds to impact the policymaking process.
So I'm here looking for best practices, opportunities for
collaboration, pilot projects, relationship building, and so on.
Barry Kendall
On Mar 3, 10:34 am, Douglas Ward <dougw...@watersward.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm Doug Ward. I'm a developer and business owner working in
> Washington, DC.
>
> Doug Ward
>
> Founder and Principal
> The Waters Ward Company, LLCwww.watersward.com
>
> Email: dougw...@watersward.com
Jeff Urell
Jeff from South Carolina; interested in #opengov and #foi, small business
owner, social media addict, voted most likely to quote Dr. Seuss and
Voltaire in the same sentence...
Looking forward to getting to know each of you...
Regards,
Jeff
FB http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=1086761483
Twitter http://twitter.com/jeffurell
Twitter http://twitter.com/blufftoniancom
Robert Bettmann
I am the Board Chair of the DC Advocates for the Arts, and in that capacity I work with public officials and stakeholders to develop and support efficient and effective policy solutions in the District of Columbia. It's hard to support the best policy solutions if you don't know what's really going on. We've had issues with lack of fiscal transparency from the local government, and rather than fight that one, we're joining the fight for transparency en toto.
Additionally, local govt support for capital/building campaigns (theaters, schools, etc.) have been politicized by the demonizing of the earmark as an institution. We're hoping to find productive models from the transparency movement that might enable us to support restoration of one time policy initatives on behalf of the District's arts orgs and the communities they serve. With such a small overall budget for the local arts agency, there's no way the local government can support capital campaigns -- and without them half the arts orgs in the city wouldn't have their buildings -- without some kind of year to year specific funding mechanism.
As an executive director I myself run the non-profit I started: Day Eight. Day Eight manages two programs. The arts magazine Bourgeon - online at http://www.bourgeononline.com, and the dance company Bettmann Dances - online at http://www.dayeight.org/bettmanndances. (If you're in DC come to my show March 19th!) I am also the author of the book Somatic Ecology: Somatics, Nature, Humanity, and the Human Body, and am a lecturer on the human body in sustainability.... And of course I do dance and teach dance (ballet and modern.)
-Rob
http://www.RobBettmann.com
twitter: #rbett
Jon Bartholomew
Hi everyone,
I am Jon Bartholomew, Policy Advocate at the Oregon State Public Interest Research Group (OSPIRG).
I am signed up to this list with my google address for simplicity, but you can reach me also at the address in my sig.
My organization was the lead advocacy group to get HB 2500 passed in Oregon last year which required the state to create a new transparency website for state spending.
That site is now up at www.oregon.gov/transparency.
I am also one of two citizen members of the Transparency Oregon Advisory Commission that was established in that legislation. This commission is to guide the implementation of the new transparency website.
You can view a lot of my blog posts about transparency at www.ospirg.org/blog and I recently released a report I wrote about the lack of transparency and accountability of tax expenditures - http://www.ospirg.org/home/reports/voting--civic-participation/voting--civic-participation/getting-the-best-bang-for-your-buck---transparency-and-accountability-tools-for-oregon-tax-subsidies
One of my key issues I want to discuss with the group is how we find funding for the advocacy that leads to the creation of more transparency. There is limited foundation support out there, and we all could benefit from identifying more funders for this work.
I look forward to working with you all.
..Jon
======================
Jon Bartholomew
Policy Advocate
OSPIRG - www.ospirg.org
cell 503.358.3833
office 503.231.4181 x374
twitter http://twitter.com/OSPIRGJon
facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/OSPIRG/83283518284
Ernestine
To Citizens for Open Government Group
Many months ago, Chris Carella identified himself on this discussion bd. as
a game creator. I'll bet there are others in this group. I have a
request--really, a challenge.
Recently, Retired Justice Sandra Day O'Connor shared on PBS that her
foundation was launching civic education games for schools-- for free. I,
like she, am shocked at the lack of civic knowledge in our population. AND
it is being cut out of schools more and more as districts frantically try to
use all time to prepare for high stakes testing.
I have been on a soap box on this discussion board about the dangerous low
in ADULT civic knowledge in this country but one way we have ignorant adults
is to have LITTLE civics taught in the schools.
One of the school districts in our state has decided to have their entire
elementary curriculum as math and reading next year. They hope that the math
will include some science and hope the reading will include social studies.
But these are NOT structured in the plan.
One third of all US students drop out before getting to the high school
senior year course in US government. We are breeding the worst possible
seeds for achieving an active and informed democracy in this Petri dish of
ignorance.
But I'm more apalled by the lack of civic knowledge in our adult AND VOTING
population. People that demand to "return to the constitution" but don't
know what is in the constitution seemingly.
I would like to challenge game makers to create games that teach ADULTS some
of the basics of our governmental system, our democracy, our constitutional
government. (and please, to understand that gov. regulation is NOT
socialism) AND make the games clever and interesting enough that it holds
attention and makes adults want to play them. I teach at a community college
and would love to have our classes test out your games.
Ernestine Krehbiel
Ernestine Krehbiel
President
League of Women Voters of Kansas
618 S. Kansas Ave, Suite B
Topeka, Kansas 66604
785-234-5152 fax 316-652-9229
lw...@sbcglobal.net / lwvk.org
Home 316-652-9229
ekre...@cox.net
The League of Women Voters is where hands-on work to safeguard democracy
leads to civic improvement. Join us in making democracy work!
Don Dotter
Ernestine;
Left up to our own devices, the education of Civic Government will wash upon the shores of Adultdom like a meaningless wave of indifference. With the privatization of almost everything educational now and those curriculum(s) being packaged as 100% percent fiber by private interests, it is an uphill battle with the piano and monkey in tow. How could we ever agree on what is "Civic" and what is teachable. Like Bill Clinton said it all depends on what the definition of "is" is.
We have a country that is divided plain and simple and as you point out those constitutional propeller heads aren't even in the ball park when it comes to what "they" believe the founders meant and then the good stuff comes blah, blah, blah, because I say so. "And no I didn't graduate Community College, but I did go to 5 universities with my parents permission and hung out with really obscure people, who use to mock everything. I mean we are so good at mocking people. we had a name for ourselves the "Mockettes" Geez what is going on!
We have a media that lathers all over them and what is left for media, the other side then covers what the other media covered and then explains why you shouldn't believe any of those points in detail 1 through 27. No solutions and only wishful thinking on behalf of the common sense folk. And we sit and ponder what a wonderful world it could be.
So back to the original premise, "Teaching Adults to Teach the Children to Save Our Communities" sometime between the hours of 6:30am and 8:00am and then again from 5:30pm to 7:00pm.
How does one deliver the message, through what vehicle whose integrity hasn't been compromised and who then provide that leadership, because as far as I am concerned this isn't an on-line University of Phoenix sit in P.J.s type of e-learning. People need to engaged and learn to engage civilly. Because just placing all demo's and republies in each of their respective rooms will not bring about civic discourse or bi-partisanship in our future elected officials.
It almost speaks to a greater force such as nature or the elders of our Native American tribes. The original peoples of our country. We need to hear wisdom and calm and serenity. We need to get back to the earth and listen to its voice. If the will of the people were made available (see available times above and had :15minutes) on my wish list I would say create a tribal center in all major urban areas and begin the healing by bringing people together, in-between election cycles but begin immediately. We live in communities of unknown faces. I get out and engage, only to see faces buried in iPhones or walking with ear plugs. Or watching some lost soul walk around with a dog the size of a tea cup with a hat and glasses on, licking the face of its owner, slipping it the tongue every now and then. Quick my breath mints please.
President Obama was only in office and functional for what really 9-13 months and most of that time was spent on Health Care and Tarp (which had already started under Bush) And that was it, that is all the American people got out of our elected officials. Its like watching the opening 3 minutes of Gone with the Wind and then 10 minutues of commercials.-we are soooo distracted by everything and rarely does the real story line ever evolve.
So who gets to tell the story, who owns the message is the way of the World today. And how do we cahnge that I ask you, how do we do it?
All My Best;
Don E. Dotter
a proud former original employee of CSPAN
Regards;
Don E. Dotter
650-636-3904