Space Balloon Project

[Daniel Hopkins]

I was under the impression that someone had started the space balloon project then abandoned it after gathering some of the necessary parts for it. If that's true would anybody know where those parts are being stored? It'd be nice to not have to duplicate previous efforts and save a bit of money.

Regards,
Dan

[Jim]

Yes, there are some space balloon parts around the Hive. I won't be
at the meeting this coming Tuesday, but Jon and DaveM could help find
them. There are styrofoam containers on the top shelves and a weather
balloon on the shelves behind CinD-LOU. We had some electronics quite
a while back. Recently, few folks have expressed interest in being
involved in this project restart.

Jim

[Jason Bailey]

That was me. I left the balloon and parachute in my locker, but it sounds like they've been moved in the interim. I had also bought two Canon cameras from DaveM for the project but they were borrowed and loaned and moved around long ago, so finding them might take a bit more legwork. I never lost interest in the project, just didn't have the time to spearhead it. I'd love to be involved if it moves forward.

Jason

[Dave B.]

I'd love to actually see *the* Jason Bailey at the hive.  That would be cool by itself.  One more reason to work on this!

:)

-D

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[Dave B.]

I don't know if it would be helpful or not, but I have a metric shit ton of atmospheric pressure sensors that have a 0-5V output for use with a MCU's ADC.  I can steal them from ECUs that I scrap.  They're high quality denso parts.   I can try to find a datasheet if an atmospheric pressure sensor would be helpful to have.

-D

[Jim]

Hi Jason! I agree with DaveB it is good to hear from you.

It looks like a space balloon phoenix is getting some lift to get
airborne again.

See the attached email below from the somewhat aligned "Friend of the
HIVE" iSPACE organization we've been talking with. Back in March,
they invited HIVE13 to participate in their Space Day on Saturday May
18. We've missed their RSVP deadline, but if we set this day as a
DEADLINE, maybe they'd still let us come as it would be REALLY NEAT to
participate at their event as HIVE13 and do a space balloon launch
from there on that day.

How about we organize a HIVE13 space balloon HACKATHON day event
before that deadline to get it together and assemble the space
balloon? Anyone want to suggest a day and time?

Jim

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <spac...@ispacescience.org>
Date: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM
Subject: RESPONSE REQUESTED: Embrace Space Day with iSPACE: FORMS TO
GET INVOLVED ATTACHED!]]
To: jim.d...@gmail.com

Dear Jim,

By sharing your time, passion, and talents, you can make a big
difference in opening up the world of science and all of its
possibilities to the children in the iSPACE community - your
community. The 9th annual "Embrace Space Day with iSPACE" will be held
at iSPACE on the campus of Scarlet Oaks in Sharonville, OH on
Saturday, May 18, 2013. The event will be open to the public from
10:00 am to 2:00 pm.

iSPACE, a non-profit science center whose mission is to promote
science, technology, engineering and mathematics(STEM) education, is
hosting this free family and we are contacting you to solicit your
participation.

Space Day is an educational initiative that inspires young people to
explore careers in science, technology, engineering and mathematics
(STEM) and to realize the vision of our space pioneers. Each May the
iSPACE Space Day celebration is dedicated to the extraordinary
achievements, benefits and opportunities in the exploration and use of
space.

You may set up a booth at this event with no cost to your
organization. We are asking each group to provide space science or
aeronautics related activities as well as the supplies and manpower
necessary to implement them.

We also request that each group donate at least one "space related"
item for our raffle to help with expenses. We do not charge admission
to our event and this helps us defray our costs.

Our commitment to you is to provide space for your activities/display,
electricity if needed, the opportunity to set up an informational
display for your organization, highlight your generous support on our
website, and our deepest respect and sincere thanks for your efforts
in making this a successful and exciting evening for kids, families,
and educators in our community.

Please let us know as soon as possible if you plan to participate by
completing and returning the 2013 Exhibitor Confirmation Form, NO
LATER
THAN FRIDAY, MARCH 22.

Thank you for considering our request. We hope you are able to join
us on May 18.

Tamiika Hurst
iSPACE Exhibitor Coordinator, Volunteer
spac...@ispacescience.org
313.580.3716

[Elizabeth Hall]

I would LOVE to get involved in this project!!!!!  I remember hearing about this years ago (maybe when we just started coming around the hive when it began?) and had totally forgotten!!

[Jim]

Folks: I am in Detroit and will miss tonite's HIVE meeting. I was able to go see the i3 Detroit hackerspace last Thursday and will try to go to their meeting tonite. They have a neat space and I got some good ideas to bring back for Jon to consider.

Bring up the space balloon group project idea in tonite's HIVE meeting and see if there is any concensus to set a date for a project hackathon prior to the iSpace event. Post any good news on next steps (or to volunteer more team member interest/support) to this thread.

Wanting to see this get off the ground... Jim

[Raven Abird]

Jackerpots!  I have three heavier styrofoam cooler sizes to choose from.  Just a warning though, I remember using one for drinks on a trip,  the styro is not completly water proof, I remember seepage on the floor under the cooler.

I'll drop them off at the Hive tonight after work

[Michael Horwath]

Wasn't able to make it to the meeting last night---what's the word on the balloon?  I'm willing to donate a bit of time and/or $ to help it get off the ground (so to speak) if someone is spearheading the project.

Cheers

Mike

[Daniel Hopkins]

Thanks Jason, I found the parts you had collected including the two cameras. I've read about others using a prepaid Android smartphone with their space balloon so the pictures, video and GPS coordinates would be transmitted. It sounds like a decent idea to me and I think even if it doesn't maintain a data connection all the way up it might be able to reconnect while descending and send the information to something like dropbox. Also, if the phone survives the landing it could be helpful for recovery if it's still sending its coordinates. 

If anybody's interested in working on this, I'd planned on coming in either tomorrow or this weekend to begin sorting out what needs to be done and start building what we can or figuring out where to get what we're missing. I can offer free beer and hi-fives to those who help. On that note, if anyone has a huge tank of helium collecting dust it would be most appreciated if you were to donate it. 

-Dan

[Elizabeth Hall]

I cannot come by this weekend because I am attending a conference.  It would be much appreciated for myself and others if this thread can stay active, give updates, and other meeting days. I know I would love to be involved and this is my main way of getting information.  Good luck sorting things out!!!

--

[Daniel Hopkins]

What day would work best for everyone to meet to sort out the Space Balloon project? I have no life for the most part so I can be there pretty much any day. If you're interested just list the days/times you can be here.

-Dan

[Marvin Stuart]

Maybe this link help 

http://rcexplorer.se/projects/2013/03/fpv-to-space-and-back/

Marvin

On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Daniel Hopkins <danhop...@gmail.com> wrote:

What day would work best for everyone to meet to sort out the Space Balloon project? I have no life for the most part so I can be there pretty much any day. If you're interested just list the days/times you can be here.

-Dan

[Tiffany Vincent]

I left two heavy-duty mailing coolers at the Hive for this project or any other.

[Daniel Hopkins]

Thank you for the coolers Tiffany! I'm currently here at the hive if anyone's interested in joining me. I'm gathering ideas on how this can be done at the moment. There seems to be a lot of great resources on the internet for this and some really cool possibilities, including the link Marvin provided us with. It's really just a matter of figuring out what our objective is and how to proceed based on that. Honestly I'm thinking it would make sense to do it as quick and simply as possible for a first attempt and expand in the future. Does anyone have any input on that?

-Dan

[Jim]

Dan,

I think you are on a good path. I'll join in to help facilitate a
discussion and coordinate the goals. Quick and simple is good. Here
are some first considerations for interested folks to investigate and
reply to.

(1) Do we have several surplus weather balloons? One is good, but
having say 3 or 5 would give us some working room. What is a source
and what is the price?

(2) Do we inflate with helium or hydrogen? Helium is the obvious
first/safe choice, but now two sources say it is $$$. Hydrogen is
lighter but brings the Hindenburg risk (or excitement?). Again what
is the source and what is the price.

(3) What do we want our payload to be? A barometric pressure sensor,
webcam, GPS locator, and broadcasting capability? Can anyone offer
donations and scrounge components?

(4) How do we want to do base station and recovery techniques? Again
what hardware can we get donated and who will volunteer to be on the
tracking, search and recovery team? Can we really expect to find it
in some farmer's tree 100 miles away?

(5) A good first start could be based on just (1) and (2). We could
do a first alpha inflation, tethered weight-lift test, and initial
release just for the fun and excitement as a motivational learning
experiment.

All are welcome to reply to these numbered points and/or add your new
info and thoughts...

Jim

[Jim Dallam]

Some local suppliers:

Air Products & Chemicals
4900 Este Ave.
Cincinnati, OH 45232
(513) 242-9215

http://www.airproducts.com/~/media/Files/PDF/industries/metals-the-integra-cylinder-leaflet-en-2010.pdf

Airgas
1200 Gest St # B
Cincinnati, OH 45203
(513) 721-5614

Praxair
8376 Reading Rd
Cincinnati, OH 45237
(513) 821-2192

Wright Brothers, Inc.
7825 Cooper Road
Montgomery, OH 45242
513) 731-2222

http://www.wrightbros.com/pdf/ASleepingGiant.pdf
http://www.wrightbros.com/pdf/BalloonsHeliumData.pdf

Google question - volume of helium in a weather balloon?
http://www.beyond62.com/part-1-how-to-fill-a-near-space-balloon/
http://www.projectaether.org/products.html
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/187
http://www.scientificsonline.com/professional-weather-balloon.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon
http://blog.makezine.com/2011/01/18/measuring-a-weather-balloons-volume/
http://www.balloonstothemax.com/files/HeliumChart.pdf

Jim

[Daniel Hopkins]

These looks like good simple designs that we could use the existing parts with:
http://space.1337arts.com/  (Probably the best source. Look at the /GUIDE section.)
http://www.outdoorescapade.com/articles/projectloabn.php#.UXCFmhwsc6I
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2010/09/yavin-iv-exploring-space-on-the-cheap-with-an-iphone-droid-and-flip/

As far as I know there's only the one balloon that Jason supplied. It looks like we'd need an 800-1200 gram balloon if we were to purchase another and from the quick search I did they're upward of $75 for an 800g.

-Dan

[Chris Anderson]

I can donate my OG Droid for use as the communications package. If that doesn't work, an old iPhone and the "find my iPhone" app might work.

--
~chris
ch...@hive13.org
http://chris.hive13.org
(513)633-2323

I tried to break down the essential position for him. "You're arguing for a universe with fewer waffles in it," I said. "I'm prepared to call that cowardice." --Tycho Brahe, Penny Arcade

[Marvin Stuart]

Looking to buy an Arduino Starter Kit for my kids any suggestions on possible kits and links

Below is a kit I found online what you think ?

Arduino starter kit 

http://www.oddwires.com/arduino-uno-starter-kit-deluxe/

Marvin

[Marvin Stuart]

Daniel

What time will you be at the hive today 12:30pm works for me to start discussing space ballon

Marvin

On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:00 PM, Daniel Hopkins <danhop...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for the coolers Tiffany! I'm currently here at the hive if anyone's interested in joining me. I'm gathering ideas on how this can be done at the moment. There seems to be a lot of great resources on the internet for this and some really cool possibilities, including the link Marvin provided us with. It's really just a matter of figuring out what our objective is and how to proceed based on that. Honestly I'm thinking it would make sense to do it as quick and simply as possible for a first attempt and expand in the future. Does anyone have any input on that?

-Dan

--

[Ian Mathews]

That looks really nice!  Looks to have more stuff than the Sparkfun Inventors Kit that I bought last year.

Also check out Adafruit's offerings.

MicroCenter has a big selection of micro controller stuff that's easy to browse through and actually put your hands on instead of looking at pictures on a web site.

Ian

--

[Daniel Hopkins]

Hi Marvin, I think I'll be at the hive after 3 today and sometime after 1 tomorrow. Anybody else think they can make it here?

-Dan

[Marvin Stuart]

I am at the hive now 

Marvin

On Apr 20, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Daniel Hopkins <danhop...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Marvin, I think I'll be at the hive after 3 today and sometime after 1 tomorrow. Anybody else think they can make it here?

-Dan

--

[Matthew Robbins]

Is helium the best choice? I'm pretty sure the National Weather Service uses hydrogen. Helium is a strategic gas, and quite expensive. It's probably reasonble to avoid helium just for conservation reasons. I'm not sure about safety, but generating hydrogen is probably trivial. It might need a booster or something to pump it into the balloon. To be clear---I'm saying to research the question of helium/hydrogen, not to pick it based on heresay.

The NWS launches two weather balloons a day from the Wilmington office at midnight and noon GMT (currently 8am and 8pm EDT). It might be worth a call to see if they'll allow a group to view a launch.

Matthew

[Daniel Hopkins]

Jason, we had a few questions about the parts you provided us with. Can you tell us about the balloon and parachute?

Thanks,

Dan

[Jason Bailey]

Sure thing! The ballon was bought on eBay in June of 2010. This is an equivalent item (same seller): http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-1-GIANT-Weather-Balloon-Meteorological-Military-8-Dia-Free-U-S-shipping-/370777117933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item565409d4ed So, it's intended to be inflated to roughly 8' in diameter at sea level.

The parachute is from here http://www.armynavysales.com/products/5-ft.-parachute and as you can see was $20 +shipping. The choice of parachute was far from scientific; it was simply estimated at one of our planning meetings that 5-6' was sufficient for the low weight payload we were planning in order to stay under weight for FCC regulations compliance.

Would be happy to answer any specific questions, though as you can see it's been a couple years since the purchases so my memory may be (probably is) faulty.

Jason

[Daniel Hopkins]

I'm at the Hive now if anyone wants to join me. We have a spreadsheet
started to organize the effort, with sections dedicated to materials
needed, materials we have, the project objective, a "to do" list based
on the objective and a relevant links section. I intended on trying to
attach the file to one of the mailing group emails but realized that's
probably not the best way to go. I'm thinking adding the file to
google docs might be better so we can all access and edit the file.
Anyone have any better suggestions or anything to add to that thought?


Most importantly these are the materials listed as still needed:
-Prepaid Cellphone [Chris offered Motorla Droid (Android), we need
something with GPS and data connection]
-Disconnect
-Barometer/Altimeter
-Video TX Booster
-Video TX Antenna
-Hydrogen
-Hand Warmer [To heat electronics]
-Minimosd
-Radar Target

Marvin has offered to lend us a bunch of his quad-copter gear
including a video transmitter and HD camera so we can watch the whole
ascent/descent in real time! There was also discussion about trying to
get some of the remaining materials donated to our non-profit group.
Are there any volunteers to pursue wrestling free stuff out of
companies?




-Dan

[Raven Abird]

I will be down there a bit later today

On Saturday, April 20, 2013, Daniel Hopkins <danhop...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Marvin, I think I'll be at the hive after 3 today and sometime after 1 tomorrow. Anybody else think they can make it here?
>
> -Dan
>

[Marvin Stuart]

Below is link to the Excel Project sheet Daniel created 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuauCVBx3a0YdDBVakxmdGJvdTVESFpuMnFXVURSYWc&usp=sharing

[Craig]

Watching it in real-time sounds absolutely amazing!

How much do we need to raise?  Can we just do a pledge or do we need to take sponsors?

[Daniel Hopkins]

Craig, I don't really know the difference between doing a pledge and taking sponsors. It sounds like a pledge is a smaller affair with less money involved, is that right? We will have to take a look at the remaining parts we need and hunt down sources to purchase them from to get an idea of how much we're going to need for this. I suppose that needs to be done anyway. Marvin, since you know more about the video transmission/receiving part of this would you mind hunting down sources for those components?

The hydrogen and cellphone with gps and data plan are some of the other components that could be pricey. Chris, if you're still interested in sending your Droid into space that would be helpful. We'd still need to get some kind of throw away pay as you go plan to activate it.

Also, on an entirely whimsical note, I've noticed that these projects tend to require some sort of insulation stuffed inside the cooler to keep the stuff inside warm and from bouncing around. I was considering using something more creative for that purpose, like anything lightweight that we'd like to be able to say we sent into space (even if it's only near space). My first thought was the dirty old socks I was wearing because I thought it would make for a fun anecdote. "So, what'd you do this weekend Dan? Oh, I sent my socks into SPACE!!"

-Dan

[Raven Abird]

heh... SOOOcks in  SPAaaaace!!  what about a Hive Mascot sent up?

 I had a friend suggest a Gopro Camera for the camera portion,  He talked about the GoPro Black,   apparently it can do stills at timed intervals while filming full video...(this makes me wonder if  the audio channel could be used to record data for a 'movie' of the whole episode)
If the GoPro people were approached with this, could we perhaps get some freebies, or maybe a big discount for one? (assuming that it  is decided to be the camera to use - I know there's already two in the materials)

On the issue of return to earth..  Not that this is something to do THIS time (I think it would be overcomplicating)  But there is a parachute to slow the fall (and hopefully keep everything from breaking to smithereens)  if a second one gets planned..  what about a parafoil/parachute with a servo  to steer it, and perhaps get it to glide to a predetermined landing spot? either back to 'base' or a spot that would make it easy to retrieve?   There will already be some sort of GPS onboard. right?  (granted, the tracking phone gps may not be accessable, but there's some tiny ones the RC people use.

Nancy

-Dan

[Hodapp]

Hmmm, do we even have a Hive Mascot?

[Ian Mathews]

It's not this guy?

[Michael Horwath]

I was curious and looked up prices for some parts on the google spreadsheet:

BMP085 altimeter ---$20 with arduino breakout shield from Sparkfun--https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11282

Video TX booster--$99 7W Booster v2 for 433Mhz from Flytron--http://www.flytron.com/openlrs/108-7w-booster-for-uhf.html

Video Tx Antenna--$50 16 dBi Yagi antenna from RFwel http://www.rfwel.com/shop/16dBi-2.4GHz-Yagi-Antenna.html?gclid=CLrivsHq4LYCFRN0MgodGhUAtQ

Hydrogen--could not easily find pricing online, saw one estimate of $0.20/cu.ft (plus tank).  If the balloon is 8ft diameter (really big!), volume will be about 2100 cubic ft...or about $420.  We could also look into electrolysis or the drano/alumininum reaction to produce hydrogen, might be more trouble than its worth though....

Someone else may find cheaper prices but it looks to me this project is in the range of $600. 

Mike H

[Michael Horwath]

Edit:  Read just a little more about high-altitude balloons, and  it's important to distinguish between the "launch" diameter and the "burst" diameter (they expand quite a bit as they rise).  Not sure which number the spreadsheet was referring to...this will make a big impact on the project cost.

Mike

[Ian Mathews]

There's an Airgas location on Mosteller, about 1.5 miles from iSPACE.  I wonder if that's where they get their helium/hydrogen.  If not, it might be worth it for someone to ask about donating the desired gas or at least discounting it.

Ian

Ian

[Brent Hill]

For an 8 foot diameter balloon the volume is actually 268 cubic ft. You will get 2100 if you use 8 for the radius. (4/3) * pi * r^3

At $0.20/cu.ft that comes to $53.6.

[Michael Horwath]

That is much nicer! I need to repeat basic geometry apparently...
Mike

[Matthew Robbins]

I really like this "fly it back" idea. Even better if the plane could fly itself back.

Matthew

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Marvin Stuart <marvin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe this link help 

http://rcexplorer.se/projects/2013/03/fpv-to-space-and-back/

Marvin

On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Daniel Hopkins <danhop...@gmail.com> wrote:

What day would work best for everyone to meet to sort out the Space Balloon project? I have no life for the most part so I can be there pretty much any day. If you're interested just list the days/times you can be here.

-Dan

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[Kyle Krieg]

I just called Airgas on Mosteller since we have an account with them.  They offer 100ci, 200ci and 300ci tanks of helium that can be "rented" for $0.60/day or $75/year.  Unfortunately the helium shortage has caused the price to skyrocket as they quoted me $223.60 for the 300ci tank.  I would still love to get involved with this project and am willing to pledge $50 and deal with picking up and dropping off the helium if we can get some sort of money pool together.

[Jim]

Kyle,

Excellent input! Yes, we will press on with the space balloon
initiative and start a helium pledgie.

The new target is to be ready to show it at the Cincinnati Mini-Maker
Faire in Washington Park on Saturday, Oct. 19. We are checking event
rules, but would like to have a tethered balloon aloft with a live
webcam during the event (starting at 12:00 noon) and then have a
scheduled release/launch at some point in the afternoon as a signature
event. The event officially goes till 10:00pm at night.

Getting helium is crucial for safety. While hydrogen is freely
available and cheaper the Hindenberg legacy makes hydrogen not
politically viable. The helium will be worth the cost to be
"officially" safer.

Will you volunteer to be the launch director and coordinate your team
of recruited volunteers for this part of the day's show? We can
discuss and recruit at next Tuesday's Hive meeting.

Jim

[Jason Bailey]

I'll throw in for some Helium!

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[Kyle Krieg]

Yes I feel like I am up for the role!