Traffic Noise on Queenswreath

[Josie]

Since my h0use backs up to Queenswreath I am very aware of the
increased noise and speed of traffic since the bumps were removed. I
know folks hated them and I am not suggesting a return. How can we
control speed and thereby noise in lieu of the bumps? Speed monitors
with a flashing signal as they have on Thompson Peak in DC Ranch?
Rubberized resurfacing? I have heard from others who DO NOT back up
tp Queenswreath that they too hear more noise. Any comments out
there? Is this just a problem limited to a few of us?

Please post.

[Anthony C. Humpage MBA CPA]

Josie, you posted it yourself :-).  Comments mailed to the discussion group are automatically e-mailed to everyone who has joined the group.

 

I had some comments on this issue after the last Board meeting: http://cimarronhills.blogspot.com/2011/02/impressions-of-board-meeting-feb-17th.html

 

I do not believe there is objective data that supports the removal of the speed bumps -- or rather, that they have reduced speed.  As we have had no change in road surface, the additional complaints of noise would seem to support the contention that people are driving faster.    I suggest you press the Board on measuring speed on Queen's Wreath. (something I'm not sure they want to do) According to our Treasurer, they have data from before the removal.

 

Once we have good data we will know how to proceed.    Personally, I think the removal has been counter-productive.  Either we need other solutions or bigger better speed bumps that people cannot drive around.  I do not think "I speak your speed signs" work.  Do you really think that people who drive 50+mph on Queen's Wreath care how fast they are going?

 

Regards

Anthony

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[TBu...@aol.com]

Hi Josie,

 

I have my window open and I can hear a horrible noise every time someone goes over a loose "manhole" cover.  It's Awful and , including your home, I am 6 homes away from Queen's Wreath.  I'm sure the noise can be heard from many more people than homeowners who back up to Queen's Wreath.  The present Board Members will NEVER even discuss the problem.  Why - because they are the ones that made a mess - worse.  It looks like their Bike Lanes did not work.  Now What.  The Board says:  "that's old business" or "we are not prepared to talk about that tonight"......  If they never put it on the Agenda - they are not obligated to discuss it.  If you will read their new Code of Conduct - it states that "They are Not required to answer questions".   Unbelievable!  

 

I am confident the Community will vote with insight into their Candidates.  Three New Board Members can control the Board......then and only then will this Board be broken of what I observe to be the "Bill Fuchs syndrome". 

 

Regards,

Terrie

[Bagby Josephine]

Thanks Terrie.  i think you are exactly right.

Josie

[DENNIS BURECH]

For the what its worth department.

I felt that when they had the electronic traffic warning sign on Queen's Wreath the traffic did slow down.   (I notice the same thing when I drive on Thompson Peak by the school there).  I understand that we own this sign but it has been broken fir awhile.  Maybe it should be repaired and tried again???

Denny Burech

[Bagby Josephine]

Makes sense to me to fix it.  Hey - what could possibly be the reason for not fixing it?????  Uh - maybe it would prove to the Board that the traffic is faster and that would make them look bad - do you suppose?

Josie

[Anthony C. Humpage MBA CPA]

It was clear to me at the last Board meeting that the Chair did not want to discuss what average traffic speeds are today versus what they were when the speed bumps were in place.  The speed bump removal was portrayed as a fait accompli by the Chair.

FYI: I actually believe the speed sign is owned by Rossmar & Graham.  It is lent out to the communities they manage on an as-needed basis.

 

Anthony.

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[Terrie Bulkin]

This is just some information that I think the Community should
know.... We should have been notified about the removal of the Speed
Humps and advised of the options at hand.... This Board is so into
spending $10,000 -$12,000 on Monuments, Plug-in Fireplaces & Leather
Chairs from Costco for the Meeting Room. This Board has already
approved spending $7,000 - $8,000 for the photo ID's for our
recreation area without having any idea of how on earth to enforce the
use of them. They have flat refused to reverse their approval of
spending this money several times. There has been so much money, in
my opinion, wasted. I said all of that to say..... I'm sure No One
knows that it would have cost only another $15,000 to rubberize
Queen's Wreath at the time they removed the Speed Humps. Had they
simply repaired the needs of the road, left in the Speed Humps &
Rubberized Queen's Wreath - our money would have been, in my opinion,
well spent.

Terrie Bulkin

On Mar 14, 1:45 pm, "Anthony C. Humpage MBA CPA"

> On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:52 PM, tbul...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Josie,
>
> I have my window open and I can hear a horrible noise every time someone
> goes over a loose "manhole" cover.  It's Awful and , including your home, I
> am 6 homes away from Queen's Wreath.  I'm sure the noise can be heard from
> many more people than homeowners who back up to Queen's Wreath.  The present
> Board Members will NEVER even discuss the problem.  Why - because they are
> the ones that made a mess - worse.  It looks like their Bike Lanes did not
> work.  Now What.  The Board says:  "that's old business" or "we are not
> prepared to talk about that tonight"......  If they never put it on the
> Agenda - they are not obligated to discuss it.  If you will read their new
> Code of Conduct - it states that "They are Not required to answer
> questions".   Unbelievable!  
>
> I am confident the Community will vote with insight into their Candidates.
> Three New Board Members can control the Board......then and only then will
> this Board be broken of what I observe to be the "Bill Fuchs syndrome".  
>
> Regards,
>
> Terrie
>
> In a message dated 3/13/2011 2:28:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>

> josba...@gmail.com writes:
>
> Since my h0use backs up to Queenswreath I am very aware of the
> increased noise and speed of traffic since the bumps were removed.  I
> know folks hated them and I am not suggesting a return.  How can we
> control speed and thereby noise in lieu of the bumps?  Speed monitors
> with a flashing signal as they have on Thompson Peak in DC Ranch?
> Rubberized resurfacing?  I have heard from others who DO NOT back up
> tp Queenswreath that they too hear more noise.  Any comments out
> there?  Is this just a problem limited to a few of us?
>
> Please post.
>
>   _____  
>

[Bagby Josephine]

Thanks Terrie - I agree.

Josie

[Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA]

Hi Josie:
I live in Cimmaron Ridge and have been a full-time CR resident since
2003.

I was very much involved in the speed hump issue. The speed hump
history dates back to the early 2000's when some residents asked Toll
Brothers to install speed humps in an effort to reduce vehicular speed
on QWL. The speed humps were randomly and thoughtlessly installed by
a truck driver with an asphalt load. There was absolutley no thought
as to their construction, location or quantity. The speed humps did
absolutley nothing in controlling speed on QWL. Our radar device has
actually clocked cars traveling in excess of 80 mph over the speed
humps....rather they caused a significant amount of noise.....created
a false sense of security.....had vehicles driving onto sidewalks to
avoid the humps.....and conributed to extending the response time of
emergency living saving vehicles ( 911 ambulances).

I sympathize with residents who back to QWL. I dare say that the
noise you are experiencing is not caused by the absence of the speed
humps. Further, I question how much noise a speeding car makes vs a
car traveling at the appropriate speed( also arbitrarily determined
years ago). I submit that the overwhelming majority of traffic on QWL
is traveling within 10mph of the posted speed, and the ones speeding
are not only in the tiny minority, but also drivers who will speed
with or without the speed humps.

I believe the answer to the speeding question on QWL is to bring a
heightened awarenss to all our residents and guests of the need to
adhere to the posted speed limits, so as to contribute to making CH/CR
a safe and pleasant community to live in.

Being a former elected offical in Illinois and having 9 years of
experience as the Police Commisioner for my former town, I have quite
a bit of experience with traffic control, laws and regulations. It is
always the handful of transgressors that bring attention to a problem
( e.g., speeding) and the majortiy of drivers are respectful, law
abiding citizens.

I respectfully suggest the Board, and those who seek Board positions,
to focus on bringing the speeding issue to the awareness of all our
residents through various signs and campaigns....this will not only be
more cost effective, but will hopefully result in a reduction of
speeding traffic.

Lastly, I think this venue of opinions is wonderful and I applaud
whoever created this opportunity for our residents and homeowners to
express their views with the goal of bettering our community.

[Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA]

I think you have a great idea and a fresh approach to this problem.
Rubberized pavement.....additional speed limit signs.....a flashing
"your speed is" ( as seen throughout our local area) and an effective
awareness campaign will address the issues of QWL successfully.and in
the most cost effective manner......the answer is clearly NOT more
speed humps.

> > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA]

One additional thought on the speed hump(s). The existing speed hump
is completely ineffective, because its location is too far from the
main entrance. Its intended to slow existing traffic and entering
traffic into the development.. If it is retained, we should explore
the cost and feasibility of relcating it much closer to the main gate
to enhance its effectiveness ( I believe there is great value in
slowing traffic departing or entering the main gate area).

On Mar 14, 10:23 pm, Terrie Bulkin <Tbul...@aol.com> wrote:

[Bagby Josephine]

Let me briefly describe my experience since the removal of speed bumps.  When we still had them, I had very heavy duty draperies with black out lining installed in my master bedroom that backs up to Queeswreath.  After that I could barely and I mean barely hear the traffic noise.  Since the bumps were removed, the noise is back to what I had before the drapery installation.  The only thing that can contribute to the noticeably increased sound is speed.  Nothing else has changed.  

OK - the speed is an auditory nuisance but it is also dangerous.  We need to intelligently address this issue.

Josie

[Anthony C. Humpage MBA CPA]

Robert Leavitt wrote:

>The speed humps were randomly and thoughtlessly installed by a truck driver with an asphalt load.  There was absolutley no thought as to their construction, location or quantity

Actually, from what I learned as a member of the transitional Board, Toll Bros placed the speed bumps before the school bus stops (at the time).

 

>I respectfully suggest the Board, and those who seek Board positions, to focus on bringing the speeding issue to the awareness of all our residents through various signs and campaigns....this will not only be more cost effective, but will hopefully result in a reduction of speeding traffic.

As you can read here, I asked the Board if they had conducted an average speed check since the speed humps were removed.  I have never received an answer to that question,  so my assumption is the answer is "No".  It is my observation that our current Board members would rather poke themselves in the eye with a six-inch nail than talk about the speed bumps -- which they voted to remove -- and will avoid discussion of them for the same reason.  FACT: Some drivers on Queens Wreath need to slow down.  The major factoid we are short of presently, is by how much, exactly, we would like them to slow down.

 

>I believe the answer to the speeding question on QWL is to bring a heightened awarenss to all our residents and guests of the need to adhere to the posted speed limits

I honestly hope your faith in human nature is correct.  However, I have a different opinion.  Personally, I don't think the people who are egregious speeders give a damn for the rest of us.  They are too selfish and self-absorbed to care, hence some other plan needs to be put in place to control their speed.

 

>Lastly, I think this venue of opinions is wonderful and I applaud whoever created this opportunity for our residents and homeowners to express their views with the goal of bettering our community.

Thank you.  That would be me.  It is amazing, is it not, that our Board has just now gotten around to "improved communication" with a poorly written and photocopied "newsletter" which they now propose to actually mail separately from our billing (Mr. Friedman's decision at the last Board Mtg).  What a waste of money! And let's not even talk about how Green (or not) that is.  Hasn't our Board heard of e-mail, for crying out loud?  If I, old enough to live in a Seniors-only community as I may be, can set up a community blog, this OPEN discussion list, have a Facebook page and Tweet my blog posts  -- why is it our Board can't seem to grasp these concepts?

 

Anthony Humpage MBA CPA

Candidate for Board, 2011.

 

From: cimarr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cimarr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:00 PM
To: Cimarron Hills
Subject: Re: Traffic Noise on Queenswreath

 

Hi Josie:

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3523 - Release Date: 03/22/11

[Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA]

Having lived for 53 years in Chicago, I am completed stunned with the
reckless abandon Arizona drivers operate their vehicles. Have you
ever been in a shopping center parking lot and seen people driving
through at high speed acting like it was a highway???

This is a problem throughout Phoenix and Scottsdale...it's a miracle
more people aren’t killed or injured.

I sympathize with the folks who back up to Queens Wreath.....but what
were you thinking when you purchased your home and saw an arterial
street running through your backyard????????????? With or without
the speed humps/bumps/cushions...you are going to hear road noise.



Bob Leavitt
11276 E. Caribbean Lane
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
Home#480-219-9500
Cell#480-290-1685
E-mail: BL7...@gmail.com
Fax: 480-219-9501

On Mar 13, 2:28 pm, Josie <josba...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA]

Having lived for 53 years in Chicago, I am completed stunned with the
reckless abandon Arizona drivers operate their vehicles. Have you
ever been in a shopping center parking lot and seen people driving
through at high speed acting like it was a highway???

This is a problem throughout Phoenix and Scottsdale...it's a miracle
more people aren’t killed or injured.

I sympathize with the folks who back up to Queens Wreath.....but what
were you thinking when you purchased your home and saw an arterial
street running through your backyard????????????? With or without
the speed humps/bumps/cushions...you are going to hear road noise.



Bob Leavitt
11276 E. Caribbean Lane
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
Home#480-219-9500
Cell#480-290-1685
E-mail: BL7...@gmail.com
Fax: 480-219-9501

> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Anthony C. Humpage MBA CPA.CITP]

Having lived for 27 years in Arizona, I too am completely stunned by the
reckless abandon of Chicago voters in electing their public officials, so I
can empathize with your feelings quite well. :-)
Nowhere's perfect, apparently.

My home does not back directly to Queen's Wreath so I cannot comment
directly on the nature of the problem, however, permit, if you will, a
couple of observations:
1. )The nature of the noise complaints about traffic from Queen's Wreath is
not about the absolute level of noise but the change in the nature and/or
level of noise since the speed bumps were removed and the concomitant
(apparent) increase in vehicle speeds.
2.) When some of folk lower down the hill bought their homes, Parcel X and
Cimarron Ridge were (almost) but a glint in some developer's eye, so it
might have been hard to visualize the ultimate endgame, particularly after
the unforeseen removal of speed control devices.

"arterial street". Hmmm. Interesting choice of words which rather elicits
visions of a divided highway, but I understand what you mean. However, of
one thing I am sure. If our brave boys (and girls) from the Scottsdale PD
were enforcing the speed limit we would likely not now be having this
conversation. I understand that QW is a private road and that I have been
told the PD cannot/will not enforce speed regulations there. Perhaps that
is true, but I am confronted with a logical crash: some offenses may be
issued a citation, speeding apparently not. I would love to know what
statute (if there is one) governs what does and does not warrant police
involvement with traffic on QW. I am sure Barry will chime in eloquently
with the PD view. That said, being an only child I have never learned to
love the word "no". So, I would be interested to see what Mike's enthusiasm
and doggedness coupled with my public affairs experience might change.
Perhaps nothing, but we've never tried a political approach. Let's be
clear, what we are describing is political arm-twisting, something Mr.
Leavitt, as an ex elected official from the Windy City must be familiar
with, so, Robert, you are more than welcome to join the mob (as it were).

Regards
Anthony

-----Original Message-----
From: cimarr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cimarr...@googlegroups.com]

On Behalf Of Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA

[nicetang]

Being on the Ridge side of the community, My family went over all 5 both
ways....a total of14,000 speeds a year. I've had to to car repairs
because of them. I hate the speed bumps too.

Any permanent change to the community I'd suggest we require a vote of
residents. Doesn't cost very much to vote.

Anything I do with the City Engineers would be free. They are frankly glad
to help.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Leavitt, CPA MBA" <bl7...@gmail.com>
To: "Cimarron Hills" <cimarr...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Traffic Noise on Queenswreath

Having lived for 53 years in Chicago, I am completed stunned with the
reckless abandon Arizona drivers operate their vehicles. Have you
ever been in a shopping center parking lot and seen people driving
through at high speed acting like it was a highway???

This is a problem throughout Phoenix and Scottsdale...it's a miracle

more people aren�t killed or injured.

[Bagby Josephine]

You are correct - living by a road does presuppose noise.  But, there were speed bumps when I purchased in 2000.  I had very heavy, lined draperies installed in my bedroom and the traffic noise all but dimmed completely.  Then, the speed bumps go away and voila, all the noise is back with a vengeance.  So, it's not a matter of knowing where I bought, it is not a matter of my not appropriately handling this issue.  It is the removal of the speed bumps that now not only allow the traffic to run much faster and cause much more noise, it is also a matter of safety.  I walk for exercise as many folks enjoy doing here.  I frequently cross Queenswreath so am fully aware visually as well as auditorily as to how much speeding is going on.

Josie

[Mark Osmun]

Actually, speed humps increase traffic noise since vehicles brake and then accelerate at each one, rather than traveling smoothly. I know; I live next to one. Originally the Board was misinformed about speed hump removal. The consultants said that speed would increase with their removal, but it has not (admittedly, it hasn't slowed either). We are going to a radar system now, which is good. But we've left a job undone. There is one more useless hump to remove. It is useless because, as Scottsdale chief traffic engineer will tell you, speed humps (when they work at all) only work within 100 feet and only work on level streets when placed in tight groups. The last hump is within 100 of NOTHING. For a highly documented case against speed humps in general and this one in particular, please see this link Removethehump

[Bagby Josephine]

I live on the corner of Queenswreath and Greenway.  Believe me, the traffic sounds are much noisier WITHOUT the speed bumps than it was with them.  I can’t ever remember hearing the braking and accelerating you refer to.  People knew there were speed bumps on Queenswreath and drove slower to accommodate them.  We need to come up with a method to effectively slow traffic.  BTW - my friends who live several houses down Greenway, i.e. not that close to Queenswreath, also complained about the increase in noise.  As for the one remaining speed bump, I suggest it is to slow folks down prior to the gate.

Thus far I have not seen a patrol with a radar gun.  Maybe I’ve just missed it or it is higher up the hill than where I live.

Josie Bagby

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