Some kind of Abia, or Zaraea lonicerae? And is it rare or common over here?

[Tintageu]

Please forgive me for the rapid turnover of questions, but having been away for a while I’ve been saving them up :)

I found a whole bunch of these beauties (though I don't recall all the sexes) on wild privet near the sea at L’Ancresse one spring day a few years ago. (I only had my point-and-shoot in those days, and the light was very harsh, so please excuse the quality of the photos.)

As this was in the days before I was introduced to CIenviron, I tried to get them ID’d on the NHM site, and they introduced me to the useful concept of sawflies. From there I did some more research and at first I thought that this might be a male Abia sericea, or something very like it, but no one could verify that, so a colleague of the people at the Liverpool Museum referred me to their Sawfly Study Group. When they failed to reply to my email, I lost heart and gave up. I had looked all over the net for answers, and they were my last hope.

The Abia illustrated here looks very similar, but mine has a bit more hair, the antennae are a different colour, and the dark band on the abdomen is a different shape.

http://www.wbrc.org.uk/WORCRECD/Issue11/Sawflies.htm

I’ve also read that it could be a male Abia cadens, and some say that it’s ‘excessively rare” to find a male of this species in Britain, but others disagree. So, all in all, I’m a bit confused. I’m now thinking that it might not be Abia at all, as it looks much more like  Zaraea lonicerae, as they’re pretty hairy, and have black antennae and the right shape of black markings on the abdomen.

I would be really grateful if this mystery can be solved once and for all. Sadly, I can’t get any better photos of them as I’ve never seen them since.

I would love to get a positive ID and to find out if these kinds of sawflies occur over here regularly, or if they are rare.  And if anyone knows, I would also really appreciate an explanation as to why sightings of the males are so unusual. Just to satisfy my curiosity, of course :)

Has anyone else seen any of these on their travels in the islands?

Cheers,

Tintageu

[Tintageu]

P.S. Just looked through one of Charles' lists and seen that Abia nigricornis is mentioned as having been recorded in the islands. Am I right in thinking that this is an alternative name for Zaraea lonicerae?

[Charles David]

I am fairly sure that this is Zaraea lonicerae, though I have never seen it, I think it must be rarer than Z. fasciata or Abia sericea which seem fairly common – at least I have seen both of these a few times each. The velvety patch of hairs in the middle of the abdominal segments 4-6 is characteristic of Z. lonicerae and Z. aenea, this stands out in the photos, but Z aenea has only one record from the UK and there is a record from Guernsey of Z lonicerae in 1897 by Luff. The differences in the Royal Entomological Society key between these two species are in the puncturation, shape of the antennal segments and shape of the scutellum,, and I can’t make these features out in the photos.

 

Abia nigricornis is an old name for A. lonicerae.  –  the name in the spreadsheet from the Biological Records Centre is in the column labelled prior names,  Luff called the species that when he recorded it.

 

Best wishes

 

Charles

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[Tintageu]

 Dear Charles,

Thank you so much for the two possible ID's and also for the very interesting information. You took me further than the NHM did :)

To recap, are you saying that it is most probably either Z. lonicerae or Z. aenea, but because the photographs are not clear enough to tell them apart it is impossible to be sure of the ID, and therefore it obviously cant be added to the records?

I will try one last thing and attempt to enhance the photographs, and then see if I can see more of those details you mentioned. However, as they were Jpegs taken on auto on such a cheap camera, I think my chances of making them more clear are slim.

Such a shame, but at least I have my eye in for them now. I'll just have to hope that they don't make a habit of coming round only once every hundred years or so ;)

Once again, many thanks for finding the answers where others have failed :D

Cheers,

Tani

[Guernsey Biological Records Centre]

Yes, I  won't record this, though it is very likely t o be Z. lonicerae.  I don't have a French key to these, or know what is around in Normandy, or Brittany. For example, there are a lot of non-British bee species on the French Coast, we get some of these, and the same may be true for sawflies.   

 

I would need a specimen so that anybody who came back in 50 or a 100  years would know what we meant by that name, and see that we have identified it correctly.  We are very fortunate in that most of Luff's and Marquand's specimens are in the Guernsey Museum, and Wally Le Quesne's etc. in the Jersey one so we can determine which species was recorded in the past when they have been subsequently split, or changed their names.  I try not to publish any new species to the CI in the Societe Transactions that does not have a specimen to back it up. Obviously, one can record easily identified species such as butterflies, or most higher plants without a specimen, but many species cannot be reliably identified from photos.  The moth people have to boil up many of their micro moths in potash to look at their genitalia under a microscope to be sure of the identification. I n sawflies often the shape of the teeth on the saw is important in identifying females, in flies the precise number and orientation of the bristles.  Without taking specimens you can often only identify insect or spiders to genus or family.

 

Best wishes

 

Charles

 

 

 

 

Guernsey Biological Records Centre
Old Tobacco Factory
La Ramée
St Peter Port
Guernsey
GY1 2ET
tel 715799
fax 715788
www.biologicalrecordscentre.gov.gg

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[Tintageu]

Charles,

Thank you very much for the clear explanation. I understand what you’re saying completely, and the subject of needing specimens for accurate identification has come up in my mind a lot over the past couple of years of photographing invertebrates. But although I have absolutely no problem with my entomologist friends doing what they do, I know I will never be able to do it myself. I think I will forever be confined to identifying those more easily identifiable creatures you mentioned.

I don’t have a lot of difficulty in photographing the individual hairs on flies, but I imagine that getting a detailed shot of the shape of the teeth on a sawfly’s is beyond me at present - though not when I get an MP-e 65 lens ;)

I shall therefore have to compromise, and make it my life’s ambition to be able to record the smallest identifying features on my subjects without having to interfere with their everyday lives. I really am that soft :)

Thank you once again for taking the time to answer my questions. And just to illustrate how far I am along that road (with a 100mm macro in natural light), I am including a fly with countable hairs.

Cheers,

Tintageu

[cdavid]

Dear Tani

I think the fly is Scathophaga stercorea, but there are 6 species of that genus recorded in the CI. This is by far the commonest, and sits in flowers, feeds on the nectar, and catches other insects,it breeds in cow pats.

I will check in the key when I get home and see if I can confirm that from the photo

Charles


--- tan...@googlemail.com wrote:

From: Tintageu <tan...@googlemail.com>
To: cien...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [CIEnviron] Re: Some kind of Abia, or Zaraea lonicerae? And is it rare or common over here?

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:59:56 -0700 (PDT)



<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Co4mY3c3muA/UAZ6rtwCnKI/AAAAAAAABVg/8perrJQXOfY/s1600/PREDATORY+FLY.jpg>

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[Tintageu]

Dear Charles,

That's very kind of you. As I've posted so much recently I wasn't going to trouble you with another ID unless it looked to be a bit scarce, so I only put that one up as an example of how close I was getting to photographing countable hairs on my beasties :) But I'm very happy to have it identified all the same.

It sat there, looking round, for quite a while, then is moved very quickly, and the next moment I found it underneath the leaf clutching a smaller fly (?). This photo is pretty bad as I had to get down on my knees and try to deal with all the green light under there, but it illustrates my point. I don't mind in the least when they kill each other, of course. Maybe if I found it easier to enter predator mode I wouldn't be so soft ;)

Cheers,

Seri