Re: [Cider Workshop] HACCP

[jez.howat]

Pete,

The one on the website is a working, proven and accepted HACCP plan...

And the guudelines on the website are borne fron experience. I have 4/5 star rating, in which that HACCP has been a part for 2 inspections now - in Hampshire too so not a 'traditional' cider making area.

All the best

Jez

Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2

-------- Original message --------
From: Pete Connor <peteroc...@gmail.com>
Date: 17/01/2015 09:04 (GMT+00:00)
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Cider Workshop] HACCP

Hi All

I have recently posted my plight with our local EHO, in the respect of producing cider on a farm in a barn, where this seams to be a acceptable method in the rest of England Surrey based councils seam to have a more clinical view.

I produced a HACCP flow chart based on a real cider template I got from the website, but it is "wishy washy" EHO words not mine.

Would any body be so kind as to share a working "approved" HACCP with me surre...@yahoo.com

Thank you in advance, I know its cheeky  

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[Ray Blockley]

Pete,

I can confirm Jez's words. Here in Nottinghamshire I've had to jump through many a hoop to get my 5 star rating - but every different EHO I've been visited by has always been very happy with my HACCP which is based on the Cider Workshop website version.

Cheers, Ray.  

[Tim]

4 Stars for my shed, show them this picture. My EHO agreed with me that cider making is a low risk.

 

 

 

[Pete Connor]

My EHO, was not impressed with the openness of the old grain shed.

[Tim]

Idiots. This is Hecks at Street, their EHO is happy with the HACCP and their pressing facilities.

 

Tim in Dorset

 

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[Pete Connor]

I know Tim, I was gob smacked, I new It would be a hard sell being farm based but I was not expecting so many hoops to jump through.

*would prefer if all was pasteurised and bottled

*al least triple filtered

*Cider at any point in the process not to be exposed so pumped from the press to a separate storage room away from press and pulp room

*to continue doing it next year I need to build a unit within the unit with drainage and separate rooms possibly 20-30k worth

But apart from that went really well, and to top it off he is coming back this week to look at the cider in the IBC's and re check my new HACCP.

But all going well should be at the Reading cider festival this year:)

[Ray Blockley]

Pete,

I'm very curious about your points:

[Quote]

*would prefer if all was pasteurised and bottled

*at least triple filtered

*Cider at any point in the process not to be exposed so pumped from the press to a separate storage room away from press and pulp room

*to continue doing it next year I need to build a unit within the unit with drainage and separate rooms possibly 20-30k worth

[Un-quote]

I cannot understand why they would "prefer" the first two points? One assumes they have no understanding or comprehension of how real / heritage / "traditional" cider is made...? Do they also insist all small micro-brewers on their patch producing "bottle conditioned" or at best "raw" beer also pasteurise / triple-filter their beers? I fear they have been reading too much publicity blurb associated with ice cold lagers and bottled "craft" (sic) ice-cold fizzy "ciders" where "triple filtering" is simply the latest marketing bullsh*t... TBH these first two points simply flag up a lack of knowledge to me.

Are they approachable enough that you can suggest they contact other Councils / EHO's / Food Agency / etc depts around the UK - especially in the Three Counties or Somerset / Devon / Dorset / etc - to get some pointers of what they should be looking for and what is acceptable safe practice...? Also do they understand that low pH (high acidity) and ABV's of at least say 6% lead to a much safer product than many other foodstuffs?

OK - Bearing in mind that I was the first commercial maker of cider (heritage / real / traditional) in the County of Nottinghamshire & therefore the first in my District: 

My first EHO (who was only trained in Butchery...) came armed with sheets about American "cider" (apple juice) that she'd downloaded from the web. Luckily, she was approachable and listened to my viewpoints and accepted much of the stuff I emailed her about cider / "hard cider" (although she only gave me a 2 Star rating after the first visit...). Later she also agreed to contact EHO's in the Three Counties, etc. so this further increased her understanding of the subject and the rationale behind cider making (which helped me get a full 5 Starts on the next and subsequent visits by other EHO's). 

As to points 4 & 5 - these are pretty much standard requirements when you are milling & pressing on site (which I understand Tim does not do - his shed is for fermentation / storage only IIRC?). However, there are degrees of this, so I would ask for further discussion /agreement on this based on your site. For example, many EHO's (mine included) are happy with a sealed concrete washable floor (I have no internal drainage channel); floor-squeegee, mop & bucket are fine for my EHO's. It's just a case of proving it can be easily and thoroughly cleaned AFAIK? 

What are your intentions with your cider? Draught wholesale? Bottled? Apple Juice and Cider? This will could various costly requirements or make life much easier depending on your ultimate goal(s). 

Bottom line from me would be to work with your EHO and try to get them to understand what you are doing and to consider the acceptable practices used in other areas of the UK where cider is made. 

​

Good luck.

Ray.