Quince cider?

[Nat West]

I've seen a mention of quince cider online somewhere, and it referenced an old Roman recipe.

Does anyone have any more modern formulas for quince cider? My neighbor has two trees which are mine for the harvesting if I can be reasonably assured that it will result in a drinkable product. Malic? Ph? Pectic enzyme? Expected SG? Blending with apples? Good commercial yeasts to use? Wild yeasts? Bottle conditioned? Cook first or grind raw?

So many questions.

Thanks,

NAT

[Stephen Hayes]

Hi Nat, this sounds like an interesting opportunity!

 

I do not believe it would be possible to produce 'cider' from quince juice, but I should think a cider or country wine flavoured with quince might be very nice

 

 A quince wine recipe appears in one of my books on country wines, which I may as well reproduce

 

>>>>>20-24 quinces

3lb sugar

2 lemons

1 gallon water

3/4 oz baker's yeast (YUKKKK!!!! -don't do it! use a wine yeast)

 

wash quinces, grate or chop finely, discard cores, boil for 15 minutes, strain on to the sugar, when lukewarm add juice of the lemons and yeast then ferment for 24 hours in covered vessel before racking nto demijiohn to complete fermentation as usual for country wines.<<<<

 

I should say that this recipe appears alphabetically betwen Potato and Raisin wine, the booklet also includes recipes for country wines from ingrediants such as pea pod, parsnip, oak leaf, mangold (as in mangel-wurzel, as in THE WURZELS) , lime blossom etc. you get the picture. Most of these recipes add some sort of flavouring to 3lb of sugar in a gallon of water plus the juice of an orange, a lemon and half a pound of raisins.

 

 

We have 3 young quince trees, I think the variety is Meech's prolific, and have grown the variety Vranja in a former home. Quinces do not crop heavily, and are extremely hard. You do not eat them raw, they are cooked for preserves (e.g. quince jelly) or cooked in pies with apples, you can even eat slices of them with mince (as in the owl and the pussycat by Edward Lear).

 

I doubt if you could get enough quinces to crush to press, they are dry rather than juice, and I think you might break your crusher, I certainly would't feed them into the blades of my centrifugal apple mill. They are just too hard.

 

Quinces are said to transfer their fragrance to apples if stored together. This might be worth a try, in fact I thnk I will give it a go when I have enough quinces. which will not be this year. You could store quinces with a larger quantity of apples for a month or so and then cruch the aples for cider and see if any quince flavour had stuck to them. I havenl tried this but it is in some of the old books.

 

Another way might be to go for a sugared up apple and quince wine. Most years I make a small batch of apple wine by adding white sugar to apple juice (Egremont Russet is my favourite) to raise the gravity to around 1100 and simmer some spices for half an hour in a small amount of the juice and half a pound of chopped raisins. Typically the spices are cloves, maybe cinnamon and allspice as well, possibly a slice or 2 of ginger. I use a wine yeast. BEWARE of overdoing the spice, unless you want to make pre-prepared concentrate for the wassail bowl. You could modify this recipe by adding quince. I think you would have to slice and simmer for an hour to get the flavour out, I would also ferment on the sliced quince for 3 days before straining, as I do with blackberries or other country wines.

 

anyhow, based on my experience of quinces and of country wines that's what I'd do, although I haven't done it and others may have more direct experience. Probably the best use of quince if you have a good supply is to make quince jelly-basically you chop and boil them, let the juice drip through a bag overnight, then cook it with white sugar until its stiff enough and put it into sterilised jars. I don't have an exact recpe to hand, you will be able to Google one, but it makes an absolutely wonderful condiment to accompany roast lamb or eat with cheese, it's a great alternative to redcurant jelly or cranberry sauce would make ideal Christmas gifts.

 

the Spanish make a quince paste, dulce de membrillo, which goes well with cheese. I have a tin in the larder from my last trip to Spain which I am saving for a special occasion. I don't know the recipe and have never seen it in this country. might be worth a try.

 

 

hope that helps and isn't too far off topic

 

Stephen Hayes

[John W. List]

> Does anyone have any more modern formulas for quince cider? My neighbor has
> two trees which are mine for the harvesting if I can be reasonably assured
> that it will result in a drinkable product. Malic? Ph? Pectic enzyme?
> Expected SG? Blending with apples? Good commercial yeasts to use? Wild
> yeasts? Bottle conditioned? Cook first or grind raw?

I tried a small batch a few years ago, roughly 70:30 proportions apple
to quince pomace, because I had the quinces. Can't remember any SG
details, never measured the Ph.

The resulting cider tasted very odd indeed, not exactly unpleasant but
not exactly nice. It had a weird slight chemical overtone best
described as tasting like the smell of paint. It matured slowly to a
more palatable flavour over a few years, but I'd not try it again.

In summary : Quinces - IMHO good in apple pies, not good in cider.

JWL

[Andrew Lea]

John W. List wrote:
>> Does anyone have any more modern formulas for quince cider?
>

> I tried a small batch a few years ago, roughly 70:30 proportions apple
> to quince pomace, because I had the quinces.
>

> The resulting cider tasted very odd indeed, not exactly unpleasant but
> not exactly nice. It had a weird slight chemical overtone

I have no personal experience, but for what it's worth Wolfgang Vogel's
excellent little German book "Wein aus Eigenem Keller" suggests just 10%
quince in cider, and no more than 20%. Pure quince wine is best made as
a dessert wine he suggests (5L of quince juice, 3L of water and 2.5 kg
of sugar). Perhaps the flavour is more acceptable that way? [For
tecchies, the characteristic quince aroma appears to be terpenoid in
origin (marmelo-lactones) and derived from carotenoid breakdown,
together with the usual esters and a touch of dimethyl sulphide]

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk

[Melanie Wilson]

I made quince wine from the remainder of  the pulp from last years quince jelly, taking forever to clear so no idea if it is any good !

 

Are the reap quines or jap quinces ?

 

Mel

 

[Nat West]

Stephen, thank you for the wealth of information, and no, not too off-topic. I might try a small (3 gallon) batch of quince wine per your recipe and your mention of spiced wine. Although I must say I like Andrew's pasting of the german recipe better since it has a good quantity of quince juice to water.

I do not know the variety, but here are some pictures if anyone might recognize it even though the fruits are not ripe. I could not pick out the variety from online sources. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/natjwest/sets/72157621981133764/

This year seems to be a heavy producing year (maybe they're a bit biennial like apples can be?) and I expect to get maybe 200 pounds should I choose - definitely enough to crush in my press, although I use a garbage disposal grinder, so I'll definitely need to boil them a bit. I'll also try to sweat them a bit to bring up the juice content.

As a last resort, I'll make some jelly with them, but I'm a bit jellied-out what with all the berries so far this year.

NAT

[Stephen Hayes]

The variety in the picture looks the same as ours, which is Meech's prolofic, which I think is the most widely planted quince so quite likely

 

I don't know if they would go through your mill easier if allowed to soften, but then they might develop off flavours. I'd be surprised if you were able to get much juice off them as hey are so hard an dry.

 

Whatever you do, keep good records and let us know!

 

Stephen

----- Original Message -----

From: Nat West

To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[Melanie Wilson]

 There is a recipe here http://www.deliciousdays.com/archives/2006/11/16/membrillo/ Loverly stuff !

 

Mel

 

[Mark Ellis]

G'day,

Interesting topic this one. We did try this on a blended scale and we about a 25% quince blend with Lady Williams juice. The experiment probably will not be repeated, as well lets just say I prefer Chanel #5 on women, and not in my glass. It is a most bizarre flavour and aroma and heavens knows what 100% would be like.

Andrew the flavour composition is interesting as you posted - explains a lot!

Strangely quince wine does settle down nicely, maybe because of the higher alcohol and longer aging, causing some aroma scavenging by some process. A lot like mead really in requirements to finish. Maybe there is something in that?

Over here in Oz, as where are having a Southern European renaissance of sorts, EVERYONE is making quince paste for the huge artisan cheese market here. In fact quince trees are getting close to be rationed, and availability is really tight.

For your interest I am including a quince paste recipe which is representative (I do mine is a slow cooker):
http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/2238/quince+paste

--

cheers
Mark E. inOz

[John W. List]

> Interesting topic this one. We did try this on a blended scale and we about a
> 25% quince blend with Lady Williams juice. The experiment probably will not be
> repeated, as well lets just say I prefer Chanel #5 on women, and not in my
> glass. It is a most bizarre flavour and aroma and heavens knows what 100% would
> be like.

A far better description than mine, but spot on.

JWL

[Nat West]

Thanks, Mark! Looks like an excellent recipe for quince paste. I will be happy to try this instead of the "standard" quince jelly. I don't think it's caught on over here in the USA like in Oz, but maybe I'll be at the forefront?

NAT

[Mark Ellis]

Hi Nat,

It is in fact reasonably well known in areas of the US. I believe it is referred to as fruit cheese. They just dont usually use quince as far as I know.

Good luck, and let me know if you need any help.

--

cheers
Mark E. inOz

[Nick Bradstock]

Dear All

Just a word for the record about making cider or perry FOR SALE IN THE UK from any other fruit than apples or pears – offered for general info and E&OE.

The Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979, as amended, Section 1(6), defines “Cider” as follows:

“Cider” means cider (or perry) of a strength less than 8.5 per cent. of alcohol by volume (at a temperature of 20’C) obtained from the fermentation of apple or pear juice without the addition at any time of any alcoholic liquor or of any liquor or substance which communicates colour or flavour other than such as the Commissioners (now, of HMRC) may allow as appearing to them to be necessary to make cider (or perry).

Therefore, any rule made for cider also applies to perry.

The Commissioners’ discretion in this is expressed in HMRC Notice 162 where the permitted ingredients and the amounts and proportions in which they may be used are set out in Section 25 of the March 2009 edition.

Anything that does not meet the conditions for cider (or perry) then falls into the category of ‘made wine’ and, IF SOLD, is subject to the relevant level of wine duty.  There is no exemption from wine duty for commercial wine makers whatever the scale of operation – cider is unique in this.

Therefore the addition of quinces, or any fruit other than apples or pears and whether or not fermented in, makes the product wine as far as UK excise law is concerned.

In addition, NACM’s Code of Practice (10^th edition) contains rules on the use of the names ‘cider’, ‘perry’ and ‘pear cider’ developed jointly with Somerset Trading Standards.  These rules are intended to protect the terms and to prevent such anomalies as (EG:)  ‘strawberry cider’ - cider cannot be made from strawberries.  If you have made a cider that has then been flavoured with a fruit X, or pulp, or juice, or indeed flavouring (natural or artificial), this should be described as ‘cider with X’ or ‘cider and X’.

Remember also that the style of the description X you add to any label is governed by UK Food Law in order to indicate the nature of X.

Of course, if you’re not selling the product but consuming it yourself, with or without the help of friends or guests, then it is not dutiable...

Best wishes

Nick

 

 

From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Hayes
Sent: 08 August 2009 08:55
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Quince cider?

 

Hi Nat, this sounds like an interesting opportunity!

<BR

[Thomas Fehige]

Don't know yet if this will help (we'll try to make quince wine for the first time this year):

There's a quince research project in Frankonia, Southern Germany, they also produce quince wine themselves. On the linked page they emphasize that the fluff on the skins needs to be carefully removed and that the milled pulp or juice should not be allowed to be in contact with the seeds longer than absolutely necessary. Both fluff and seeds apparently carry these strange and unpleasant aromas. Otherwise, the recommended procedure is quite similar to what folks here recommend for their apple cider.

Similar, I think, to grape cultivation, they recommend an early picking of part of  the fruit beginning in June to leave only about 6 quinces per meter. That way, they expect an SG of up to 1.080, depending on variety and climate. Juice that is to be made into wine should have an SG of at least 1.055 and an acidity between 5 and 8 gr/litre.

All the best -- Thomas

[eduar...@gmail.com]

I tried this year. It was really good ( and expensive)

I do not know how they work, but i know cidermakers here in Hessen who works with quince.

They use 30% of quince in their cider. The problem with quince is the press process.

Cidonia, from Weidmann & Groh is really amazing.

They use to mix the quince with the apples when they get crushed. Quince must be ripe in order to get as much juice as possible.

Otherwise it is really difficult to extract the juice.

Best regards,

Edu

Gesendet mit BlackBerry® Webmail von Telekom Deutschland

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From: Thomas Fehige <tho...@fehige.de>

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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:45:18 -0700 (PDT)

To: <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Quince cider?

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[Brian Weatherman]

in...@stgeorgespirits.com
 
these guys used to make a quince eau de vie .... you may want to drop them a line .... address it to Lance Winters
 

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Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Quince cider?
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
From: eduar...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:51:55 +0000

[Thomas Fehige]

Am Sonntag, 20. Oktober 2013 22:51:55 UTC+2 schrieb Edu coto:

 Quince must be ripe in order to get as much juice as possible.

Otherwise it is really difficult to extract the juice.

As with apples (probably even more so) it also depends on the quality of the milling. The Mustea people I quoted above expect a juice ratio of 65% with a rack or band press, 60% with a hydropress and 55% with a spindle press. I'd say that would be quite presentable figures?

Thomas

[Sharon L.]

Anyone have any Meech's Prolific Quince seedlings, cuttings or seeds to sell or share?

[Ray Blockley]

Can you provide a direct email address for replies please Sharon L? Can all replies be kept **off list** please as per the groups usual rules. 

Ray 

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:27 PM, 'Sharon L.' via Cider Workshop <cider-w...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Anyone have any Meech's Prolific Quince seedlings, cuttings or seeds to sell or share?

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[HEW]

Nat,

You might look into Querry -- a quince perry made by Bonny Doon Vineyard. Bonny Doon Querry

Randall writes: "We milled the quince and suspended the fruit in muslin bags, as if it were a tisane of quince. This cider was fermented at an extremely cold temperature." He uses only 2% quince.

To my taste this Querry is excellent, refreshing, very floral and fruity on the nose. Good stuff.

Edwin

[Gloria Bell]

Reviving an old thread....
I've made three quince concoctions this year.
Quince wine, quince/Apple cider and quince lemonade.

All started in October.

So far the quince wine with 1/3 quince juice to 2/3 water is so floral and so intense that it tastes like the smell of flowery soap. It's nice and clear though! Beautiful rose colouring. I did cook the juice. Scratted, press, pectinase, cook.

The apple quince was about 25% quince is something odd and weird but I will let it age. Has a real earthiness to it and not sure that these two flavours play well with each other. Time will tell.

The quince lemonade. I LIKE it! 3 gallons of lemonade and about a litre of quince juice (also cooked). It's the best of the bunch. Really gives the lemonade some astringency and body without it being so perfumy that it hurts.

Perhaps the efficient use of quince is in micro amounts. I will try some diluted with water and if the wine becomes cider strength....that's ok too (provided it's drinkable!). Or I may try to post blend with something.

FYI I back flavoured Hard cider with quince juice and it was lovely if drank right away. Horribly nasty after a few days. The tannins from the quince really were nice. I don't think that I had cooked that quince juice for his addition. Didn't have much flavour - just astringency.

My experiences this far with quince. Varietal unknown but has a lemony smell - perhaps champion quince.

[Gloria Bell]

I've just tried another version on apple quince and it's really very good.  Very little quince in there...Maybe 15-20%.  I've just post blended a sample.  WOW.  The astringency of a strong bittersweet apple and a little perfumy floral note.  Lovely.

[Alexander Peckham]

Nat, I have experimented with quince - and even made  a small batch of a 100% quince cider which is not to be advised.  I found that at about 6% the quince imparted a distinct and pleasant floral note.    The quinces were milled and pressed with the apples.

[Anders Klausen]

Hi,

I once made the most delicious quince cider with 5 liter quince and 25 liter apple (Ingrid Marie). And it was WOW! I have never tasted anything like it. Quince is astringent and has probably lots of tannins(?) - VERRY bitter and very flowery taste so you must blend it with some sweet apples.

The taste of quince is so dominant that you may not put too much of it in it. That year my apples had a SG of about 1050 but the quinches was SG 1070. Every year since I have tryed to repeat the succes but it was never so good as first the time. I would so much like to get to hear from others hwo have some regularry socces with quince.

by the way: Dont ever prun your quince tree! (unless you live in the southern countries - I live in Denmark) after I did the pruning, the fruit was smaller and the SG was lower. I have heard the same experiences from other quince tree owners.

[gloria bell]

What type of quince?

I find less is best too!  10-15% (varies) I think works for me!

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[Anders Klausen]

Hi Gloria,

I use apple-quinches. Like the one on the photo.

I dont know if there is many quinche-sorts but some look more like pears in their shape and I cant tell any difference in the flavor or taste between them. 

There is allso some quinches that grow on small bushes. But I never use that kind.

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