Filmy scum at top of bottles

[Daniel Print]

Dear Cider Workshop

I've spotted a problem I've not encountered before. I bottled my first gallon of 2010 cider a few weeks ago, following my usual practice of not adding priming sugar (to get natural slow building spritz), nor any campdens on bottling, and just rinsing the bottles with campden tablet solution prior to use. The crown caps are all secure on the bottles and a thin paint layer of yeast has settled out, but all the bottles in the batch appear to have a filmy scum floating at the top of the cider. When I tip the bottle, the scum can climb the edge of the bottle (like the tannin in well stewed tea). The batch is a wild ferment of mainly dessert apples from November 2010. As I've not seen this scum on any previous ciders or beers, and I didn't use a different technique, could a bug be in this batch? I've not tasted it yet, and inverting the bottle seems to disperse it temporarily.

I don't start drinking the last season's cider until Low Sunday so I shall have to wait until after Easter before I know if the flavour is impaired

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what may have caused it?

Many thanks

Dan
Essex Cider from a Garden Shed

[Andrew Lea]

On 04/04/2011 11:06, Daniel Print wrote:
>
> out, but all the bottles in the batch appear to have a filmy scum
> floating at the top of the cider. When I tip the bottle, the scum can
> climb the edge of the bottle (like the tannin in well stewed tea).
>

> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what may have caused it?

Sounds very much like a film yeast to me. Maybe it was stimulated by a
small amount of aeration at bottling. If the bottle caps are tight and
the headspace small, it should be self-limiting since it needs air to grow.

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Andrew Lea wrote:
> Sounds very much like a film yeast to me. Maybe it was stimulated by a
> small amount of aeration at bottling. If the bottle caps are tight and
> the headspace small, it should be self-limiting since it needs air to grow.

I have had an occurrence of film yeast in bottle quite sometime ago
and I must say I scrapped the affected bottles. Even if it should have
been self-limiting, it did affect the taste. I wouldn't say it was
undrinkable, but when there is another case just besides where there
are good bottles without film yeast - guess what - from which case do
you take the bottle you are going to drink today? It ends up that the
case with film yeast bottles never gets drunk and after a few years,
you just dump the cider...
Claude

[Daniel Print]

Thanks Andrew, much appreciated

I think I'll revert back to a little bit of priming sugar for fizz - am I right in thinking that the CO2 that eventually dissolves into the liquid initially acts as a blanket between the air in the airspace and the liquid, thus inhibiting moulds and film yeasts etc, then the increasing pressure in the bottle inhibits it further?

Anyway, experimenting with fully natural long, slow condition reminds me how much I like the bright unmistakeable fizz that comes with a dash of sugar per gallon!

Daniel

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[Andrew Lea]

On 05/04/2011 14:12, Daniel Print wrote:
> Thanks Andrew, much appreciated
>
> I think I'll revert back to a little bit of priming sugar for fizz -
> am I right in thinking that the CO2 that eventually dissolves into
> the liquid initially acts as a blanket between the air in the
> airspace and the liquid, thus inhibiting moulds and film yeasts etc,
> then the increasing pressure in the bottle inhibits it further?

No it isn't a blanket, the air and CO2 in the headspace are totally
mixed not stratified. However, the higher the partial pressure of CO2
the more toxic it is to yeast. In the case of film yeast and a small
headspace, the air may quickly be used up, and then it can't grow any
more for lack of air either. Film yeasts cannot grow significantly in
anaerobic conditions, unlike fermenting yeasts which can.

[Dick Dunn]

On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 06:50:38PM -0700, Claude Jolicoeur wrote:
...

> I have had an occurrence of film yeast in bottle quite sometime ago
> and I must say I scrapped the affected bottles. Even if it should have

> been self-limiting, it did affect the taste...

How far along was it? I've had several batches with slight film-yeast
infections, but never more than a very light, mostly-transparent layer.
Never saw a reason to toss them.

>...I wouldn't say it was

> undrinkable, but when there is another case just besides where there
> are good bottles without film yeast - guess what - from which case do
> you take the bottle you are going to drink today? It ends up that the
> case with film yeast bottles never gets drunk and after a few years,
> you just dump the cider...

If you've got enough cider that you can do so, sure, why not I suppose?

But as I say I've never had one objectionable enough to feel like that.
If I'm bothered by the little film in the bottle at the top of the liquid,
I just jiggle the bottle and it falls out so I don't even have to look at
it.

--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Dick Dunn wrote:

> How far along was it?

I can't say really - this was about 15 years ago and I didn't know
much about film yeast then. But I remember that I could taste
something I didn't like in it and the other case just besides that one
had always a better cider... Cider that I drink has to be great,
otherwise, there is no point going through all this.

And when I say I dumped it - this is not exact. I actually use the not-
so-good cider for many other uses like for cooking or making vinegar.
For example, some cook ham in beer - I will use second cider for that
and it is great for that purpose.
Claude

[Eric Rayner]

I know this was a couple of years ago, but did you dump the cider and did the film yeast affect the flavour?

I have three 5-gallon demijohns and they all have a small scum-like film on the top. That would be a lot of cider to dump - two-thirds of my first batch.

Eric

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Eric, in this old thread, we were discussing film yeast in bottles - this is a more complex problem because you don't want to open all your bottles, pour them back to a tank, treat with sulfite and rebottle, losing in the process most of the carbonation... In your case, the film yeast appeared in the carboy, a situation which is much easier to handle, and has been discussed many times here as well as in most good cider-making books...
Essentially what you need to do is to remove the film and to treat with sulfite. See the archives for details!
Claude