Cider prices UK

[Tony Lovering]

There was a post earlier about cider prices that got a bit side tracked so I thought I would start another here.

I was just wondering what people thought of how the craft cider maker is developing in the UK. I have my own views. Firstly does anybody know the reason why there is a difference in the duty for cider and beer? The duty is as follows

Beer

Alcohol type	Rate per hectolitre per cent of alcohol in the beer
Beer - General Beer Duty	£18.37
Beer - high strength:  Exceeding 7.5% abv - in addition to the General Beer Duty	£5.48
Beer - lower strength:  Exceeding 1.2% - not exceeding 2.8% abv	£8.10

Cider and perry

Alcohol type	Rate per hectolitre of product
Still cider and perry:  Exceeding 1.2% - not exceeding 7.5% abv	£38.87
Still cider and perry:  Exceeding 7.5% - less than 8.5% abv	£58.75
Sparkling cider and perry:  Exceeding 1.2% - not exceeding 5.5% abv	£38.87
Sparkling cider and perry:  Exceeding 5.5% - less than 8.5% abv	£268.99

So take a 500ml bottle of 6.5% cider and the same ABV beer you would pay 9p duty on the beer and 19p duty on the cider. Not much but cider is 112% higher duty than the beer. 

If you look at the commercial beer business and compare it to the craft beer business you find that both use the same ingredients and the brew time for each is about the same. Commercial breweries can use economics of scale and bulk buying to lower their prices so there is a case for a % increase between pub beer and craft beer. I have seen craft beer going for £3.75 for 330ml. Way above what you would expect.

Now you take commercial cider and craft cider. Commercial cider can use 35% of the apples required to make craft cider so a significant cost saving and the brew time for commercial cider is 3 weeks where craft cider is 5-8 months. If you look at the price difference between the two you don't see any significant price variations.

What are peoples views on the prices of craft cider in the UK and what could be done to raise prices to represent more the differences in cost of production and production times between commercial and craft cider? In my opinion the 2 products are so different you almost need to call craft cider something else.

Cheers

[Nick Bradstock]

Tony

 

You have forgotten to factor in the 6.5 x multiplier for UK beer duty.  Beer at 6.5%ABV pays £119.41 per hectolitre (100 litres) vs cider of the same strength at £38.87.

By reason of the EU “Structures Directive” (something we have now put at risk since 24/06/16), beer duty goes up in steps of 0.1%ABV while cider is dutied in bands – like wine – but cider’s rate (as I have often pointed out to warn those who might unwittingly doctor cider and so convert it into made wine) is lower than either wine or beer.  Please don’t upset the brewers by claiming that cider duty is higher!!!

 

Re pricing, I think you will find as a general rule that craft cider at retail is already priced above mainstream cider.  Sparkling cider is often priced at £12 - £15 per 75cl bottle but then the duty on sparkling cider is equal to sparkling wine duty – when <8.5%ABV.

 

Nick

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[Tony Lovering]

OK thanks for that. I did a search on the HMRC website and came up with the above table. It was under the heading Tax on Shopping so dont know what that is or why it is significantly different to the UK trade tariff website I just found that confirms what you stated. Thanks for the correction

Anyway as for craft cider being priced above mainstream cider I dont see it. Nothing like the mark up you see from commercial beer and craft beer and nowhere near the price difference you would expect considering the differences in the products. As for sparking cider it has to be above 3 bar pressure AND OR have a mushroom cork in to be classed as sparkling.

Also small breweries get a reduction in duty. I looked on the website and it shows a sliding scale but couldn't work out what it meant.. 

Cheers

[knivetoncider]

Nick is correct about the multiplier but to muddle the waters slightly, a brewery making "craft" beer are probably below 60,000hl so benefit from small brewery relief and will pay less duty.
£3.75 for 330ml is about what I would expect once you look a little further than the supermarket shelves. Our local bar/bottle shop have some 6.5% ABVs in 330ml up to around the £6 mark - and they do sell. They have some stronger ones at over a tenner.
We retail ours in 500ml at £3.50 - nobody has ever queried the price even when we've done a stall next to a brewery selling same size bottles for £2.50. Could we charge more? Maybe.

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le dimanche 18 décembre 2016 17:14:51 UTC-5, knivetoncider a écrit :

We retail ours in 500ml at £3.50 - nobody has ever queried the price even when we've done a stall next to a brewery selling same size bottles for £2.50. Could we charge more? Maybe.

You may compare this to prices in France...
At the farm, most cideries sell at 2.50 to 4.50 EUR for a 750 mL in a proper champenoise bottle with cork and wire cage.
When AOC, price tends to be at the higher range, but then you are sure to have a proper prise de mousse - otherwise it will often be with CO2 injection.
There are some cideries that succeed to sell at higher prices, like Eric Bordelais, Eric Baron (Domaine de Kerveguen), and a few others. If I remember correctly, Baron's range goes from 8 to 12 EUR. Bordelet's range starts about the same level, but it goes higher for some older or presige cuvées (Granit perry is 17).
I don't know however what is their tax rate.

In Quebec, at the cidery you'd usually have to pay between 12 and 18$ CDN for a 750 mL sparkling. Lower prices for artificial carbonation, higher for champenoise or cuve close method.

Claude

[Nicholas Bradstock]

Again from memory, French excise duty on cider is €1.80 per hectolitre and on wine is perhaps 3 times greater. 

It should be searchable on the web....

Nick

iPhone

[Tony Lovering]

3.40 euros in France per hectolitre compared to 69.80 euros here

Cheers

[Duncan Hewitt]

That's interesting. I approached our local village club and they offered me £1 a bottle to buy it in - hardly covered the cost of the bottle and label! I need to rethink where I sell in to in the future, when I produce too much for personal consumption.

Cheers!

Duncan

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[Tony Lovering]

Duncan. I soon realised as with most things for sale the middle man takes all the profits. To combat this we have setup a small group.of craft brewers and cider makers. The plan is to rent small properties to organise pop up craft events. At least this way we can sell at retail prices

[Tim]

This will nicely muddy the waters for those trying to earn a living, £3.75 for 330ml is pure fantasy.

 

Tim in Dorset

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[Tony Lovering]

Tim

Not in the West Midlands. The problem is with no real quality mark to help differentiate between real craft cider and the watered down stuff with being peddled in bars as craft cider the public are losing confidence.

Cheers

[Duncan Hewitt]

That makes sense, but easier I suspect in areas where there are more makers. I don't think there are many our way. I did think that one route might be to get a licence to sell ourselves, and then just do the farm shop events, which there are quite a few of. Word may get round then, and I don't think we'll ever make so much that it would become more than a paying hobby. At least we could keep our prices higher rather than trying to compete with the big makers - the club essentially said they bought their big stuff in for that price, and that was what they were willing to pay.

On 20/12/2016 12:17, 'Tony Lovering' via Cider Workshop wrote:

Duncan. I soon realised as with most things for sale the middle man takes all the profits. To combat this we have setup a small group.of craft brewers and cider makers. The plan is to rent small properties to organise pop up craft events. At least this way we can sell at retail prices

Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Martin campling]

The discussion so far has centred on selling bottled cider which I can't help on very much, except to say that, here in Bristol, the two shops that I talked to were offering to buy at £1.50 per bottle. It just wasn't worth it for me once I'd costed in bottles and labels so I continue to sell my cider in BIBs to five local pubs directly. There was a mention of £55 per 20 BIB in an earlier thread but there is absolutely no way that I could command that sort of price. I sell at £45 but even then I get the occasional comment (mostly in jest, to be honest) such as "but I can buy for £38 elsewhere!". Indeed they can - I've heard the £38-42 price range quoted to me a number of times. Which makes me wonder what price cider-makers who do use "middle men" companies are selling to them for. One of my customers told me they can pick up Wilkins cider for £27 per BIB if they go to the farm.

Originally I had hoped to command a higher price for my "real" (i.e. non concentrate-based) cider but, even though I seem to be one of the very rare producers in the immediate vicinity, I'm constantly having to fight against what the general populace consider to be "proper cider", including the latest trend of hazy cider, the stuff that looks totally artificial. And CAMRA are of absolutely no help whatsoever, refusing to give me even a mention in the cider section of their local rag, even though I've been around as a commercial maker for 6 years now. So, I just have to be grateful for the £45 I get from my loyal customers. It's very hard getting into other places though and, sometimes, I find the whole thing a bit depressing. 

But I plod on regardless.

Best of luck with your enterprises,

   Martin

[Alan stone]

One Somerset so called cider maker i am informed regularly undercuts artisan cider makers with bag inbox at £23 - one publican I discussed this with just couldn't see why he should pay more when his customers prefer the sweet concentrate based product with fancy names!

Sent from my iPhone

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[Llanblethian Orchards - Alex]

All small scale cider makers are in the same boat fighting the big boys off. £45 a bag in box is the going rate among the small fry in Wales but some publicans do refuse because they can get concentrate cack for £38 odd from the big boys.

I personally feel CAMRA would be better served by adpoting a new phrase like pure cider with a definition of 100% juice no artifical cack added but whenever I bring it up in CAMRA an argument about bag in boxes and pasteurisation starts and they go back to drinking kopenberg in the meeting UGH!

Perhaps it's time all the small scale cider makers got together with a definition they can all promote together, it's not like CAMRA or the NACM will help.

Alex

[Tony Lovering]

Hi

My thoughts exactly and there are a lot of others thinking along the same lines. There are these guys http://www.theciderbox.com/ they seem to be on our side. 

One of the problem is (and this isnt a dig at the small producer) that there are a lot of cider makers who's primary income doesn't come from making cider and can afford to sell at the artificially low prices being happy to just break even. Although this may well increase the diversity of whats on offer it does play into the hands of the big producers.

OK this is the bit everybody is going to disagree with.......I think that the 7,000 limit from HMRC exemption is not helping. You certainly cant make a living from making only 7,000 ltrs with this being your primary income.  If it was removed at least it would be a level playing field. *Ducks behind bar to avoid thrown glasses*....

If the publicans are the problem then sell direct. 

Cheers

[Tim]

I would duck and never surface again if I was you, do that and I would give up making cider tomorrow morning.

 

Tim in Dorset

 

From: 'Tony Lovering' via Cider Workshop [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 03 January 2017 16:54
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider prices UK

 

Hi

[downside perry]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:54:21 PM UTC, Tony Lovering wrote:

One of the problem is (and this isnt a dig at the small producer) that there are a lot of cider makers who's primary income doesn't come from making cider and can afford to sell at the artificially low prices being happy to just break even. Although this may well increase the diversity of whats on offer it does play into the hands of the big producers

I don't really understand your argument here. I am a very small commercial producer . I also have a day job (sometimes 2) as well. However I certainly am not wealthy enough to be happy with 'just breaking even'. You have to factor in the cost of equipment, labels, bottles, sundries and deliveries and then also all the hard labour involved in making the stuff. This is a part time job to supplement my income and I take it very seriously as I'd imagine many do. It is not a hobby.

The duty exemption is the only thing that means I can compete with anyone. It means that the higher price i pay for bottles and sundries at a lower quantity just balances against the duty i would have to pay. i am no better off for it.

[Tony Lovering]

I'm wondering why not make it your full time job? Is it the price of cider?

Cheers

[Max Nowell]

I don't understand it either.  If the problem is small producers selling cheap at break-even prices, how on earth would it help them or the cause of craft cider if they (we) had to add duty???  The big boys would love that - 99% of small producers would pack it up immediately, as Tim says.

[Handmade Cider]

There are economies of scale all the way up and in my opinion the first 7k litres should be duty exempt to create some parity in a market which has become ever more slanted over the last 40 years.

There is also competition from all angles; straight up concentrate merchants, cider from conc masquerading as real, large producers broadly exploiting notice notice 162, producers of cider pressed in season with a good economy of scale and small scale producers.

One can only price to the market, have a sliding scale of prices for each type of outlet and hopefully be able to retail a percentage ones self as well. It then becomes more about your average income per litre rather than just about what you can wholesale to the local landlord for, which will be at the bottom of the pricing scale unless it is an establishment that appreciates local/small scale/crafted products.

Denis 

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2015 & 2014

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[Wayne Bush]

Tony, not sure I understood your post about the 7000 liter duty free limit--did you mean that it should be higher, or that it shouldn't exist? 

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[Duncan Hewitt]

Also don't understand it. As someone who has made 6, then 60, then 150 bottles over the last three years from a new orchard coming into fruit, I am thinking of where to go as the orchard matures and I start meeting people who actually want to buy the stuff, and people who have trees I can use locally. I can imagine hitting the low thousands of pints in terms of our own orchard, should I have the inclination (and support of the family), but I have a full time job, it's a hobby producing for friends and family at the moment. If I were to turn it into something larger then I would certainly not give it away! If I can't get a price I find suitable, then I'll stay at the self-production level I expect.

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[Jez Howat (BT)]

I think prices are sensitive to a number of things: how much competition there is in the area, whether there are any large producers incumbent, duty etc. etc.

 

If you want to know what I ‘believe’, then there should be a premium for a premium product. But a product made from 100% juice isn’t necessarily a premium product (sorry, I am using the word premium to mean high quality… not the same as the idiotic marketeers in the industry who probably think premium simply means ‘as close to sweetened water as possible’)

 

In the real world, of course, there is a lot of work to do on both the resellers and the punters before they see cider as anything but an alternative to beer. This may be a pessimistic view, but (again, thanks to those who think they do marketing) a high value cider probably contains some strawberries or eau de old socks. And much be sweet.

 

So, pricing is always going to be tricky depending on where you operate and who you are in competition with. And its not a fair or level playing field.

 

As for the exemption? Well, it is a barrier to business as many who have reached it will attest to. The jump from 7000 that is needed to make it viable once duty is accounted for is quite the leap. However, for those of us who do not depend on cider as a main income there is less incentive to jump over it… hence a lot of smaller semi professional/hobby producers in the UK. Would I get rid of it? No. Was it simply set because (probably realistically) those who collected duty didn’t stand a hope of getting it in the first place? I would defer to older and wiser peopleJ

 

The issue of how to price a cider will always be contentious!

 

Jez

 

[Tony Lovering]

If you are selling to pubs at £45 per 20ltr you will make the same income from 8,000ltr with duty as you would with 7,000 without. Not much of a jump.If you want to make the same profit it might be..lol

FYI the exemption doesn't apply to sparkling cider or flavored cider, not that there is such a thing as its Made Wine.

Cheers

[Jez Howat (BT)]

Tony,

 

You may want to check your maths on the duty… You may make the same amount as ‘income’ but you would be liable for over £3100 in duty. It isn’t the end of the world, but by sticking to 7000 you avoid that entirely.

 

And not entirely sure what you mean by no such thing as made wine either – what about country wines?

 

Jez

 

From: 'Tony Lovering' via Cider Workshop [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 04 January 2017 15:32
To: Cider Workshop <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider prices UK

 

If you are selling to pubs at £45 per 20ltr you will make the same income from 8,000ltr with duty as you would with 7,000 without. Not much of a jump.If you want to make the same profit it might be..lol

[Alan stone]

As far as I am aware the 1500 gallon threshold was set to enable the continuance of cider production on small mixed farms. The majority of these ceased production as soon as duty was introduced in the mid 1970s and the threshold was a far sighted way of protecting a rural tradition. It was never intended to support full time cider makers

Alan

Sent from my iPhone

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[Tony Lovering]

Ok you are right

You will make the same income from 7000 ltrs without duty as you would with if you produced 11,500 ltrs and paid the duty. Yes I agree quite a jump

There is no such thing as flavored cider, If its flavored its made wine and duty is applied as such

Cheers

[Vince Wakefield]

I think you will find the exemption does apply to sparkling cider, unless I am missing something.

 

From notice 162.

3.10 Can I claim exemption from registration

You may claim exemption if:

• you make, or propose to make, cider (including sparkling cider) for sale
• your total production - including cider for your own consumption - in any rolling period of 12 consecutive months does not exceed 70 hectolitres

Vince

 

From: 'Tony Lovering' via Cider Workshop [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 04 January 2017 15:32
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider prices UK

 

If you are selling to pubs at £45 per 20ltr you will make the same income from 8,000ltr with duty as you would with 7,000 without. Not much of a jump.If you want to make the same profit it might be..lol

 

FYI the exemption doesn't apply to sparkling cider or flavored cider, not that there is such a thing as its Made Wine.

 

Cheers

 

--

[Tim]

As long as it is crown capped, put it in a champagne bottle with cork and wire and you pay duty.

 

Tim in Dorset

[Tony Lovering]

Yeah that's what I thought. Where is the text that says that?

Cheers

[skidbro...@tiscali.co.uk]

Hi Alan et al

Many years ago I used to drink (occasionally) with an excise man in Bristol. He said that the 1500 gallon exemption had nothing whatever to do with tradition/heritage or even a lifeline to small farm producers. Collecting tiny amounts of duty from myriad old codgers whose records and paperwork would (in any case) be a nightmare was not something anybody at HM Customs and Excise (as was then) had any interest in.

Most importantly, when they looked at the revenue generated it was not economically viable to collect. In other words they had worked out that below 1500 gallons it would cost more to collect than it generated in duty.

I realise that the romantic argument currently has more sway.

Best wishes

Guy

PS Enjoyed your book by the way!

[Vince Wakefield]

I was under the impression that the duty rate may change if it has a mushroom cork/cage arrangement but it still falls under the 7,000L exemption.

 

All the info should be in HMRC notice 162.

 

5.4 When is cider liable to the sparkling rates of duty

Cider is liable to the sparkling rates of duty if it has an actual alcoholic strength by volume exceeding 5.5% but less than 8.5% and:

• is in a closed bottle with excess pressure, due to carbon dioxide, of 3 bars or more at 20°C
• regardless of pressure, is contained in a closed bottle with a ‘mushroom shaped stopper’ held in place by a tie or fastening

 

 

Vince

[Tony Lovering]

That's the text to differentiate between still and sparkling but it doesn't say you are not exempt from it

[Alan stone]

Thanks Guy - very interesting

Sent from my iPhone

[Vince Wakefield]

No the section I posted earlier stated we are exempt from duty on sparkling cider as well as still

Vince

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Tony Lovering' via Cider Workshop [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: 04 January 2017 19:15
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider prices UK

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[Tony Lovering]

Just for comparison take a look at this

http://www.bottleshack.uk/purity-perro-tonto.html

A bottle of craft beer for sale retail £16.95.Why? because its aged 6 months.

Cheers

[Martin campling]

I've seen beers like this sold at £50 (a Brewdog creation in a pub in Pimlico, London). Because there are enough stupid people in the world I guess is the answer. I asked the person behind the bar if they sold any at that price and they told me people come in groups of 10 or so, buy a bottle between them, and have a thimble-full each.

Looking at the cider offering on that web site I see that they sell Dunkertons. I rate Dunkertons very highly but those are low prices. A pub near me sells the same bottles at about £5 each, rather than the £2.25 (or less for a box). But then they do have a multi-millionaire behind them. I don't. 

Cheers,

    Martin

[HEW]

No. These are not stupid people. These are people who value things and are willing to pay what they need to have an exquisite experience of what they consider to be a valuable beverage. People willing to pay more for drinks are exactly the people craft cider producers should be aiming to educate about the quality and value of their craft, in my opinion.

[downside perry]

Yes but within limits. It is stupid to pay £50 for a bottle of beer as it definitely inst worth that money. (You can get a high quality bottle of gueuze that is very limited and aged for 4 years for less than a tenner.)

Similarly no single bottle of cider is worth £50, even if it is very fine and aged for 10 years.

We need a general increase in prices to match quality and not a mysterious value put on to a product for no reason.

I agree that we should educate these people about cider but that also means not deceiving them with ridiculously over-inflated prices. 

[Matthew Moser Miller]

But, Downside, you're acting as though the cost and value of something is an inherent, rather than something defined by the market or the person buying it. There's a minimum cost to a bottle of beer or cider, sure- the economic outlay it took for the apples/barley, water and hops, and the packaging- but there isn't an inherent cap on what it's value is. You can make the argument that it's stupid to pay 50 pounds for a bottle of beer, but you can't say it isn't WORTH it. If someone's willing to pay it, it contains (for that person) that worth.

And the value may not be put on the product "for no reason;" we just may not know (or similarly value) the reason. Let's take that Brewdog example; I can't be sure, but let's say it was a bottle of Tactical Nuclear Penguin-- where they take a 10.5% imperial stout with raspberries, age it for twelve months in whisky casks, then cryoconcentrate the beer to about a third of it's previous volume and an abv of around 36%. That's...what, at least 7 times the ABV of an average pint of real ale? And they've got the added storage costs for the year, plus the barrels (which they don't otherwise use), plus the freezing, plus all the labor required to the produce this beer that isn't a factor if they brew their real ale for three weeks and then keg it.

I'm not saying everyone ought to go out and pay £50 for a beer or a cider; if they don't feel it has that value to them, then it's a bad idea (for that money, I'd rather a decent bottle of single malt). But just because you don't place that same value on something doesn't mean someone else is inherently wrong for being willing to pay it.

Matt Moser Miller

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[Matthew Moser Miller]

Relatedly: there's also something to be said for rarity and availability and its influence on price. The beer Tony linked to was one of 900 bottles; scarcity increases (or can increase) the demand for an item, or the heights that people are willing to go for it.

Also: would you make the same argument that, say, no wine is worth £50? You very well may; I wouldn't pay that for wine, because I don't have that level of appreciation for it. I balk at paying more than $10 for a bottle of wine, but I do (and would continue to) pay $12 for a bottle of Bittersweet Funk from Oliver's or $18 for a bottle from Eve's Cidery in New York made using methode champenoise. For me, it's worth it.

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[Tony Lovering]

Well I'm hoping that there will be a few people that appreciate decent champenoise method cider. I've got 30 bottle laid down for mid 2018 (my 60th)... Lol

[downside perry]

Even with rarity and special methods kept in mind, there is still a reasonable limit to what it should cost.

I wouldnt pay £50 for a botlle of wine, even though I do appreciate good wine. The thing is, I know I can get a very, very good wine for £20 so I wouldnt buy a more expensive one.

Same with cider - I would be prepared to pay a bit extra for something very nice, but only so much.

I don't want to get into some pointless argument, but my basic point is, ridiculous prices are damaging to cider as they create yet more confusion about what the product is worth. Also, the only way we are going to win over winedrinkers with cider is that it's at least competitively priced with wine.

[Alan stone]

How about Once Upon a tree £23 for 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Ray Blockley]

Just to add a bit of interest....

Back after 4 weeks in Spain & exploring lots of excellent & not so
excellent Sidra, & so catching up.

a) Certain "important" CAMRA members who are also cider producers are
against cider being priced anything more than basic beer. They sneer
at those who feel that 100% whole juice craft made cider & perry
(small "c") should be priced accordingly for the true premium quality
product that it is. However - the same people are happy that
watered-down low ABV fast-fermented "flavoured ciders" should be
priced the same as high ABV whole juice quality cider & perry.... I
cannot work out their reasoning!

b) This article is an interesting read for those who also follow the
trends in (overpriced?) "Craft Beers" & similar "innovations". Could
you expect to find Blue cider / Bright Green perry on offer soon? I
fear the clock is ticking...

http://www.thelocal.es/20170112/red-white-but-not-blue-spain-bans-wine-because-its-the-wrong-colour

Ray.

[Tim]

Nice. I can just imagine loads of people running off to Tesco this afternoon and clearing the shelves of food colouring. Mind you, I suspect a fair few already use it on the quiet.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Blockley
Sent: 13 January 2017 12:08
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider prices UK

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[Tony Lovering]

I am also wondering why flovoured cider is allowed to be called cider at all since it contravenes the description of cider in the Alcohol Liquor Duties Act 1979 and also the description of cider in Notice 162. has anybody reported this to the Trades Description people?

Cheers

[Ray Blockley]

So long as the Made Wine duty is paid, everyone seems happy.........

Ray.

[Ray Blockley]

I suspect that if one already pays Made Wine duty then anything goes..? :-( 

Ray.

On 13 Jan 2017 15:02, "Tim" <t...@marshwoodvalecider.com> wrote:

Nice. I can just imagine loads of people running off to Tesco this afternoon and clearing the shelves of food colouring. Mind you, I suspect a fair few already use it on the quiet.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: cider-workshop@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-workshop@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Blockley
Sent: 13 January 2017 12:08
To: Cider Workshop
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Cider prices UK

Just to add a bit of interest....

Back after 4 weeks in Spain & exploring lots of excellent & not so excellent Sidra, & so catching up.

a) Certain "important" CAMRA members who are also cider producers are against cider being priced anything more than basic beer. They sneer at those who feel that 100% whole juice craft made cider & perry (small "c") should be priced accordingly for the true premium quality product that it is. However - the same people are happy that watered-down low ABV fast-fermented "flavoured ciders" should be priced the same as high ABV whole juice quality cider & perry.... I cannot work out their reasoning!

b) This article is an interesting read for those who also follow the trends in (overpriced?) "Craft Beers" & similar "innovations". Could you expect to find Blue cider / Bright Green perry on offer soon? I fear the clock is ticking...

 http://www.thelocal.es/20170112/red-white-but-not-blue-spain-bans-wine-because-its-the-wrong-colour

Ray.

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