Canadian source for American scionwood?

[Derick Greenly]

First off, this a longtime lurker's first post. G'day!

I have a few large old trees, plus a few seedling stocks, which I hope to work over to some of the most notorious American cider varieties (wickson, redfield, harrison and hewe's) plus try M. Jolicoeur's cultivars (banane amère, douce du charlevoix, bilodeau). I am in central ontario, zone 5b/6a.

Siloam and o'keefe grange no longer ship scionwood, at least not to the public...and i came pretty close to begging.

Does anyone know of true and healthy sources of these varieties in the great white north? If it were practical to do a swap, i can offer antonovka seedlings, ohxf 97 callused cuttings or nut tree seedlings of many types. Otherwise, I'm happy to pay.

Furthermore, i pledge that if I get these varieties, I would continue to make them available for others as long as I can operate secateurs!
DG
Warkworth, ON

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 13 décembre 2016 12:57:21 UTC-5, Derick Greenly a écrit :

I have a few large old trees, plus a few seedling stocks, which I hope to work over to some of the most notorious American cider varieties (wickson, redfield, harrison and hewe's) plus try M. Jolicoeur's cultivars (banane amère, douce du charlevoix, bilodeau). I am in central ontario, zone 5b/6a.
Siloam and o'keefe grange no longer ship scionwood, at least not to the public...and i came pretty close to begging.
Does anyone know of true and healthy sources of these varieties in the great white north? If it were practical to do a swap, i can offer antonovka seedlings, ohxf 97 callused cuttings or nut tree seedlings of many types. Otherwise, I'm happy to pay.

Have you had a look at this page from my web site?
http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/SourceCanada.htm
I am very surprised to learn that Siloam and O'Keefe don't ship scion wood.
Note that in central ON, zone 5b/6a, you will probably find that my varieties ripen too early. You would possibly obtain better results with standard late season bittersweets like Yarlington Mill or Dabinett.
Claude

[77grundy]

 

Try cidersupply.com . I got some scions from them last year and was very happy with the material.

DG

Lumsden, SK.

 

[Derick Greenly]

Yes, I definitely did see your page. In fact, that's where I first saw the lists from either nursery. Siloam states explicitly on their site that 2017 scionwood will not be happening. I called the fellow at o'keefe, and though he was very cordial and happy to chat, he told me that scionwood was absolutely not happening this year. Maybe you want to confirm with them, and maybe it's pertinent to make a note on your page.

Claude, I am still quite interested in those 3 of yours, despite a shift in ripening dates that might occur. At worst, it would help me spread out my pressing days. At best, an earlier crop of good cider apples might afford me an additional "season", gaining me more annual uses from my tanks. I'm still quite eager.

Thanks for the replies. Did that place ship to saskatchewan without major expense or hassle? Their site says lower 48 states only.

Thanks!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mardi 13 décembre 2016 18:36:15 UTC-5, Derick Greenly a écrit :

Yes, I definitely did see your page. In fact, that's where I first saw the lists from either nursery. Siloam states explicitly on their site that 2017 scionwood will not be happening.

Yes, looking at the Siloam page, everything is gone, no list of varieties, no nothing... It seems something is happening this year. Maybe they are taking a break...
You can recontact me this winter (by February), and we can see availability. I would be interested by some Antonovka seedlings for rootstocks...

As of Cidersupply.com, Chris is on this list and he has one of the most extensive collection of cider apples in N.A., and possibly he will tell you on how it can be done.

Claude

[77grundy]

Yes Chris managed to find a way to ship scions to me in Saskatchewan no problem. Drop him an email and I'm sure he will try his best to deliver.

Other places to maybe try, in Canada, is whiffletree nursery or silvercreek nursery. Both might not have quite the varieties you're looking for but they seem to be expanding their cider collections.

[Jonathon Bowman]

Hi Derick,

I'm in Southwestern Ontario, and have dealt with most of the local growers and suppliers as I've started my own cider orchard. 

Whiffletree have more selection available than in their catalogue, but not scionwood as far as I know. I bought some Harrison and Wickson trees from them this past year (Spring 2016) and they were very nice. 

I talked with Bill O'Keefe this past thanksgiving at their annual apple tasting event, and he indicated that dealing with scionwood has become too problematic to want to continue. He's a heckuva nice guy, but he seemed disheartened by some bad experiences that he'd had. 

I've also recently dealt with Chris from Cider Supply for scionwood, whose selection of varieties, as Claude has said, is really exceptional. I'll be receiving my first shipment from him Spring 2017 and looking forward to it. Thanks Chris!

All of that said, I am always open to scionwood exchanges here in Ontario. My orchard is still fairly young, and availability of cuttings may be slim this year once I've taken what I need for my own grafting, but I might be able to send you some Harrison and others... I'll likely have Hewes and Wickson budwood available for 2018, but not for 2017. I do have a decent number of cider varieties started. I'll need to do a proper inventory later in the winter to see what I'll have available, but please let me know if you're interested in talking more. 

Speaking of which, if anyone in Ontario has any of the following for cuttings, I'd be interested in an exchange: Baldwin, Granniewinkle.

Best,

Jonathon

[Derick Greenly]

A very important update:

Harrison, Bilodeau, banane amère and douce de charlevoix are potentially going to be in Summerland's catalogue this winter. They definitely have the varieties, it's just a matter of whether or not they'll have them in the catalogue in time. Yyyyyyyes!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Yes, I sent them the wood last winter for them to propagate. Plus a few others like Kermerrien, Virginia crab, Major and Reine des pommes.
They are certainly better than me for propagation and distribution of such varieties. Their only drawback is that there is a minimum charge which might be a bit stiff for a hobbyist.
I guess the availability (if any) will be very slim this year as they only have one-year grafts, but as their mother trees grow bigger, they will have more and more available.
Claude

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mercredi 14 décembre 2016 05:55:57 UTC-5, Jonathon Bowman a écrit :

Speaking of which, if anyone in Ontario has any of the following for cuttings, I'd be interested in an exchange: Baldwin, Granniewinkle.

Actually, the perfect "trio" of old american cider apples was Harrison, Granniwinkle and Campfield. Harrison being borderline bittersharp to sharp, Granniwinkle a sweet, and Campfield a bittersweet. I understand they blend very well together. Harrison is findable in Canada, but the 2 others are not as far as I know.
If anyone knows of a canadian source for Granniwinkle and Campfield, I'd be happy to hear...
Claude

[Matthew Vasilev]

Hi Claude,

if it's possible for you to send scion to BC. Can anyone in BC send scionwood to you without going through a CFIA disease control centre.? I've always been perplexed by even the interprovincial regulations...

[Chris Schmidt]

Hi Matthew;

Last time I checked, shipping scionwood across the country is a no-no due to disease control regulations. For example, look at our honeybee problem (mites being introduced to the island because of someone up in Comox area not following the rules).

Have you checked with Summerland Varieties? They have a really good source. Also, the BC Fruit Testers Association would be another great source.Their annual meeting in March they sell the buds there (www.bcfta.ca)

Cheers!

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le lundi 19 décembre 2016 12:15:11 UTC-5, Matthew Vasilev a écrit :

Hi Claude,

 if it's possible for you to send scion to BC. Can anyone in BC send scionwood to you without going through a CFIA disease control centre.? I've always been perplexed by even the interprovincial regulations...

Well, I always thought there were restrictions for material going into BC, but not the other way around. There are nurseries in the East who won't ship to BC.
For my part I have been sent material from PICO (the ancient name of Summerland Varieties - SVC) and by the CPH (Center for Plant Health) which I gather is a federal organism based in BC - but I don't think they still distribute fruit tree wood anymore. If there would be restriction for going out of BC, I am quite sure one of these organisms would have mentioned it.
As of sending material to SVC, these guys certainly have the professionalism and competence to handle plant material in an intelligent way, so I am not too worried.
Claude

[Derick Greenly]

I believe that apple maggot and maybe sawfly are not present in BC, so they want to keep it that way. SVC will ship out. Rootstock companies from the states have informed me that shipping to BC requires an ungodly amount of washing and fumigating.

[Jonathon Bowman]

This combo sounds like a winner! Claude, if you do manage to find a source for Granniwinkle and/or Campfield, please let me know. 

Thanks! 

Jonathon

[Peri Lavender]

Hi Chris. 

I'm wondering when you last checked the CFIA disease control regulations?  I know that they have made changes within the last year, or so, and that inter-provincial shipping looks as if it is more of a reality than it has been in the past.  

Not sure though, and looking for others to weigh in on rule interpretation. 

Cheers!

Peri

[CiderSupply.com]

I think that many of the associated Agucurltural rules and regs mean well and are quite valid. And even more where overseas commerce is at hand.

Based in the US, we don't ship plant material overseas or direct into Canada. Canadian orchardists, we fulfill through existing sources there, so i am not familliar with Canadian rules and regs.

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[Gloria Bell]

As for Summerland PICO - They don't have Harrison - yet and are not sure that what they have is actually running true to variety.  Apparently they are listing some varietals notes/info but unless it is in their Budwood list - it's not available.  I was happy to see some of Claude's varietals listed there.

[CiderSupply.com]

I will say that most all of the USDA cider cultivars are available in Canada through various clubs and organizations, and personal orchards...but finding an easy way to shop and order them is a problem. It seems that provincial transfer and sharing is not popular in Canada.

Best regards
Chris Rylands

[gloria bell]

In BC the BCTFA is a good source of scion wood. I've receive a good proportion of my wood through their sale in March. They do purchase scion wood through Summerland and then also receive donations From members to sell. I go every year. Love it.

I believe Alberta has an association or scion wood exchange in either Edmonton or Calgary.

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[CiderSupply.com]

Keep hunting, i have seen Harrison in Canada, but cannot remember the name of the BC orchard where we picked them at.

[gloria bell]

Wow!!! Good to hear! Thanks for making my night.

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 10:50 PM, CiderSupply.com <cryl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Keep hunting, i have seen Harrison in Canada, but cannot remember the name of the BC orchard where we picked them at.
>

[luis.ga...@gmail.com]

Hi Claude,

I think that a group of ciderist in Ontario (Norfolk Cider Apple Initiative) do have these variety. I don't know them but if I understand well their project, they should be very happy to send you some grafting material.

Good luck!

Louis