Pectin in juice

[Rich Everett]

We are pressing with a new belt press and for the first time are noticing a large amount of what we think is pectin in the apple juice.  We’ve always pressed the same apples although we’ve used rack and cloth and a good nature to press with out seeing this challenge.  Does anyone know why this pressing contained the pectin or a cloudy juice.  It did  settle out to the bottom after letting it sit for 3-4 hours.  It almost looks cloudy and leaves a chalky taste in your mouth?  Could it be the belt press?

Rich Everett

Everett Family Farm

"Fine Organics From Seed to Core"

reof...@gmail.com

[Andrew Lea]

On 29/09/2014 05:42, Rich Everett wrote:

> It did settle out to the bottom after letting it sit for 3-4 hours.
> It almost looks cloudy and leaves a chalky taste in your mouth?

Sounds a lot more like starch granules to me than a pectin gel. How ripe
are your apples?

Andrew


--
near Oxford, UK
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Rich Everett]

We did pick early this season, but we had a normal brix reading of 13-14 and the seeds were dark brown. They tasted good as well, but we now think that may be the issue also. We only picked and pressed a ton so we still have 15 tons hanging! We also picked and pressed the next day and we normally sweat them for one to two weeks, could that of been it?
Is there a way of testing for starch or to much pectin prior to picking?

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[nfcider]

Rich,
Sounds to me you're finding the downside of belt pressing,(we went the other way and gone back to the Goodnature system),bags or cloths give you that element of primary filtration,which unfortunately you never get with belt systems,pack pressing always has a dryer finished pomace(therefore more juice yield),belt pressed juice inevitably picks up frasse (apple flesh solids) which generally stays in the juice in suspension,you will find that after your primary fermentation you will have a considerable increase in the depth of lees settled out when racking,taking that into account as waste also completely alters your juice extraction rate. Belt pressing might be the bees knees to some,but pack and bag pressing (with the added work of cleaning cloths etc) does have it's benefits!
Barry

[Mike Beck]

Barry,
What kind of Belt Press did you use? We have used one over 15 years and have none of those issues. Possibly <1% more pectin, but certainly not an issue. I think it is more of a variety issue. I will notice if we use many Red delicious for our fresh juice sales the pectin level goes up and the chalkiness is present. However, both issues settle out with 24-36 hours of hold time in the tank. I have used many styles of presses to make cider from and have not seen any real difference between them.
Did your juice go through any form of screen device before going to holding tank? We use a Stainless Steel fine mesh screen before going to holding tank. This screen is much finer than any press cloth I have used in the past. We never had any form of visible solids in our juice with this process. I question the statement of yield as well. We have been pressing 10,000 gallon a week lately and have been getting 3.5 gallons a bushel, which is identical to the rack and cloth press we used to run. I have used both a rack and cloth and belt press for over 30 years and I personally would not go back to the rack and cloth. The speed obtained with a belt press just does not make the economics work for us to go back to a rack and cloth.
My 2 bits
Mike Beck
St. John's, MI

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[Dick Dunn]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 07:51:47AM -0700, Rich Everett wrote:
...

> Is there a way of testing for starch or to much pectin prior to picking?

You can check starch with ordinary tincture of iodine. (Did that come up
earlier? Can't remember.) Cut a slice of apple and put a drop of iodine
on it; if it turns black quickly you've got a lot of starch still there.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[Andrew Lea]

On 29/09/2014 15:51, Rich Everett wrote:
>
> We also picked and pressed
> the next day and we normally sweat them for one to two weeks, could
> that of been it?

Highly likely. Starch in unripe apples is converted to sugar off the
tree as the apples mature. That one to two weeks storage could be quite
critical.

> Is there a way of testing for starch or to much pectin prior to picking?

Qualitative starch test on apple slices is shown here
http://cider.org.uk/iodine_test.html as I posted a few days ago. This is
a simple test for cider makers who need zero starch. If you Google it
you can find more sophisticated versions designed for professional apple
growers who need to put slightly underripe apples into CA store.

All apples / juice contain pectin and unlike starch the soluble pectin
tends to increase on storage not reduce (because it is leached out from
the spaces between the cell walls as they break down). You can do a
qualitative test for soluble pectin by adding 3 parts alcohol to 1 part
juice and watching for clot formation. Not sure that will help you here.

[Charlotte Traynor]

Just out of curiosity, Andrew - what effect would the addition of starch have on a cider?

Charlotte

[Andrew Lea]

On 30/09/2014 17:47, Charlotte Traynor wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, Andrew - what effect would the addition of starch have on a cider?

I don't understand why anyone would want to add starch deliberately? Is
that what you are suggesting?

Starch is a normal and characteristic component of unripe apples. As the
fruit ripens the starch is naturally broken down into sugars. If you
ferment apple juice with unconverted native starch in it, you get a
lower alcohol yield because there is less sugar and also lower flavour
because the rest of the fruit isn't ripe yet. The starch itself is in
the form of granules about 25 microns in size which is why it has a
chalky taste. If you leave such juice overnight you will see the
granules separate out, or you can find them as a layer under the yeast
after fermentation. Starch is not broken down by yeast.

Large cider makers often do not wait for all the starch to convert
naturally (time is money!) and they treat it with amylase enzymes
instead to get the maximum realisable sugar and hence maximum alcohol.