Using bittersweet/ bittersharp cider apples in juice making

[Ian Shields]

I have always stuck mainly to dessert/culinary/ sharp or sweet  cider apples for juice making but it occurrs to me that as it is said that the polyphenols in apples are of  health benefit and they are found in higher concentration in tannic apples perhaps I should be putting some in juice. I may be too used to drinking tannic juice but it has always tasted just fine to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Should I be adding tannic apples to my juice mix?

Ian

[gareth chapman]

I would say probably bittersharps would be OK, but bitter sweets might lack the acidity and the tannins may be a bit too pronounced.
Whilst it's obviously down to personal taste I'm not sure that a strong dry tannin flavour is something desirable in juice, a nice balance of sweetness and background acidity would be more appropriate.

[Ian Shields]

Thanks for your comments Gareth. I wasn't thinking of only using bittersweets but rather making a balanced juice with a mixture of sharps and bittersweets. Actually more or less the same as I would when making cider.

Ian

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[gareth chapman]

Yeah its all about the balance. I think you have already identified, the challenge might be the tannin

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[Ian Shields]

Part of what I am interested in is if a tannin rich apple juice could be a niche in the market, i.e promoted as healthy and also perhaps more interesting than conventional juice. I have a vague idea that I saw something recently that seemed to be suggesting this.

Ian

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[Andrew Lea]

In the UK / EU, you could not make such a health claim on a commercial product unless you had documented clinical evidence to back it up.  The FSA would need to approve such a claim. I’m not aware that any polyphenol health claims are currently allowed in the UK. The claims for pomegranate juice were rejected by EFSA, for instance, see https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2010.1750

In my view it is best to blend apple juice for its flavour alone.  If you want health benefits from apples, or any fruit in general, you should be eating the raw fruit, not consuming it in processed form. Fruit juice is enjoyable, but it’s not healthy. 

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Page

www.cider.org.uk

On 24 Nov 2022, at 09:40, Ian Shields <iancs...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Les Price]

I sold juice for a couple decades until, eventually the local health departments have put me out of business. I, too thought maybe I could achieve a richer flavor with some tannic apples. I tried all my cider varieties in many blends, concentrations. The evaluations were always the same.... it ruined the juice.

Keeping in mind, this was customers evaluations who were at the farm to buy fresh juice. I asked them to sample this "special" blend and give feedback. 

A cider drinker might have appreciated it, who knows?

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[Ian Shields]

That's interesting. I might make more of an effort to make my friends assess the drinkability of juice destined to be cider.

Thanks.

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[Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck]

I'm doing cider in Normandie and I know that in the region selling apple juice with at least some percentage of bitter sweets and even bitters is done and successful, sometimes the juice is done by majority from it. However most of the producers would try to have acidic varieties by main percentage adding the bitter sweets by some tenths of percents. Personally I like apple juice both from acidic and partly bitter sweet or even bitter apples, the later I would be however very careful about. I do my cider in Cotentin and sometimes drinking the juice is quite an adventure, it is the region with most bitter ciders in France with exception with small part of Bretagne, can not remember name of that department. I offer my apple juice during tastings and I sell it (just starting in small quantities) to people which are from other countries than cider is consumed traditionally and they like the juice a lot. In my case I did it from apple mix quite traditional from Calvados region which would be roughly around 60% bitter sweets the rest some bitters, acidic and sweets.
I'd definitely recommend commercialization, I'm sure that you will find your clientele, it has something in it, well as cider from Normandie regions, polyphenols, more complex flavour ... By the way I did not filtered my product and did not use any additives, it is just pasteurized, it has been two years since I bottled the batch I'm talking about and it is still fine.

[Ian Shields]

That is very interesting. Since I first mentioned trying to use bittersweets and bittersharps in a juice I have been asking friends who come to  help with pressing to try the juice which is being pressed for cider and so far it has had universally positive results.

This is just a blend of apples that will be fermented for cider. I guess as I make blends that are in the 'Somerset'range of acidity / tannin that the juice is probably a bit sharper than a typical Normandie cider juice. I must admit that I do like the added complexity  that the tannins give the juice. I've not yet tried to pasteurise this juice but will try that soon.

Ian

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