Hopping
159 views
Skip to first unread message
john pantling
Sep 10, 2021, 1:28:08 PM9/10/21
to Cider Workshop
New to cider and wish to know what are the views on hopping cider? Is it a step to far , a way of perhaps turning a nondescript cider into something worth drinking or is it just not what should be done with cider? I read about it on another site and the suggestion was it was worth trying... was an American site though.
Wes Cherry
Sep 10, 2021, 1:31:13 PM9/10/21
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
It’s the work of the…
On Sep 10, 2021, at 10:28 AM, john pantling <jwp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
New to cider and wish to know what are the views on hopping cider? Is it a step to far , a way of perhaps turning a nondescript cider into something worth drinking or is it just not what should be done with cider? I read about it on another site and the suggestion was it was worth trying... was an American site though. --
--
Visit our website: http://www.ciderworkshop.com
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Cider Workshop" Google Group.
By joining the Cider Workshop, you agree to abide by our principles. Please see http://www.ciderworkshop.com/resources_principles.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cider Workshop" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/0d68e6eb-2c4a-4fe8-92bd-acf4a06f7a16n%40googlegroups.com.
Claude Jolicoeur
Sep 10, 2021, 1:42:57 PM9/10/21
to Cider Workshop
Being new to cider, my usual suggestion in that case is to start by mastering the basics before trying things such as hopping...
But yes, there are excellent hopped ciders out there, but a hopped cider can't possibly be good if the underlying cider is bad. So, start by obtaining a good cider on a regular basis, and then in a few years if you are so inclined, try hopping such cider.
Ray Blockley
Sep 10, 2021, 2:03:58 PM9/10/21
to Workshop-Cider
Have had some good & great hopped ciders - & some very poor "because it's the thing to do....".
As with many things, just because you can, doesn't mean you should...?
If you get chance to chat to such as Tom Oliver (Tom's "At the hop" is a great starting point) them you may be able to avoid errors.
Ray.
On Fri, 10 Sep 2021, 18:29 john pantling, <jwp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
New to cider and wish to know what are the views on hopping cider? Is it a step to far , a way of perhaps turning a nondescript cider into something worth drinking or is it just not what should be done with cider? I read about it on another site and the suggestion was it was worth trying... was an American site though.
--
Ed Varga
Sep 10, 2021, 2:47:26 PM9/10/21
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
My average rating for hopped ciders is actually higher than for ciders. I grow my own hops (mainly cascade & fuggles) so it's something I can add to to give abit more variety to my home made cider which is a blend of cookers & eaters, and it seems to work well using freshly dried hops. Olivers "at the Hop" series is very good, Little Pomona (Hard Rain Hopped) & Nightingales (Hoppy Cox) both use local hops, also Beard & Sabre have swapped their production to mainly hopped ciders (e.g. Congal the Blind - see the ciderdrinkers review on youtube), so there are plenty of examples of good hopped ciders out there
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/CAO7CN4kK405mCG85gLHiLoXqyGH4Fd73HdC2k%3DP0LvkCepYKVA%40mail.gmail.com.
Wayne Bush
Sep 10, 2021, 4:09:29 PM9/10/21
to Cider Workshop
I think there are plenty of people on this forum who would say that "hopped cider" is a contradiction in terms. If it is hopped, it is not cider, since cider is a drink made only of apples. But in the ever-widening cider media out there, it seems that it depends on who is doing the hopping. A few producers in the UK and US seem to attract a disproportionate share of all "coverage" of cider, and sometimes it seems that depending on your brand name, anything goes, including adulterating cider with hops, which are really something that God intended for beer (I guess if Wes can invoke the devil, I can invoke diety). Lest I offend, this is all meant in good humor, but for now, I agree with those who say to focus on making good cider before you think about blending or changing it with non-apple additions.
Wayne Bush
Sep 10, 2021, 4:11:57 PM9/10/21
to Cider Workshop
sorry, misspelled deity above.
gareth chapman
Sep 10, 2021, 4:41:14 PM9/10/21
to Cider Workshop
@Wayne Bush I have to agree we need to learn to run before we can walk.
I totally get where those who are trying to "rebrand" cider are coming from and I totally get the "cider is wine" movement from a diversity point of view, but some of the weird and wacky flavourings out there could just put off the market we are trying to chase.
I totally get where those who are trying to "rebrand" cider are coming from and I totally get the "cider is wine" movement from a diversity point of view, but some of the weird and wacky flavourings out there could just put off the market we are trying to chase.
It's all a bit schizophrenic firstly you try and disassociate from the beer market, with which cider has traditionally been associated, and then in the next breath you try and throw yourself right back in there.
Brian Drake
Sep 10, 2021, 4:56:03 PM9/10/21
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
I’ve experimented with hops, both in primary and secondary. I wouldn’t have dreamed of tainting any of my batches where I had decent apples to work with, but where I’ve had mediocre dessert apples or ground falls from my neighbor’s neglected dessert apple tree, I think it’s been a good call. Not my favorites, but generally crowd-pleasers all-in-all.
Getting the dose and duration right is a trick and not one I can say I’ve mastered. I’ve considered making a tincture of hops (hop extract) from my own hops (Cascade, Centennial & Columbus) for less mess and tighter control. Fishing a mesh sock of soggy hops out of your cider is a bit of a mess.
There are arguably two primary paths to cider experimentation - one from the beer drinkers and one from the wine drinkers, so hopped cider seems to be a ‘gateway cider’ for the bi-curious beer drinkers. :) Hopping seems to help with forming a ‘head’ and provides a sorely needed dimension in those fully dry ciders made from low-acid dessert apples that have a tendency to be thin. Can be enjoyable after mowing the yard on a hot day, ala Coors Light or a Corona.
Have fun!
Brian
OOLLC
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/a1887f65-ff37-4fda-80c1-2f7931409fd9n%40googlegroups.com.
john pantling
Sep 11, 2021, 2:35:16 AM9/11/21
to Cider Workshop
Thanks for the replies!
Brian seems to be describing the cider I am likely to make because what I start out with are dessert apples. I do have an idea to add a little sweetness and fresh apple flavour by making up a load of frozen fresh apple juice cubes to add to the glass before pouring in the dry cider.
cheers
John
Ed Varga
Sep 11, 2021, 3:48:58 AM9/11/21
to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
If you have the budget and want to avoid the mess of fishing out a mesh sock of soggy hops that Brian mentioned, one of the stainless steel mesh strainers works well:
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/f5ebc2a9-4339-4f43-881c-81dcc5d9e743n%40googlegroups.com.
Steve Drew
Sep 12, 2021, 5:09:55 PM9/12/21
to Cider Workshop
Good discussion!
I did my first hopped cider this season just gone. Apart from curiosity, and the fact that I have had some rather nice hopped ciders in the past, I really just wanted to work on ('sweet'-sour-bitter) flavour balancing. Toward the end of the Tasmanian apple season there are only dessert and cooking apples, as elsewhere I imagine, and once the Sturmers are finished, then there is little in the way of apple-sourced bitterness to be had straight from the trees.
This year I had some end of season Granny Smiths and some feral Croftons from the roadside. They made a good appley sour-sweet blend and thought a bit of 'dry hopping' would make a good initial trial for 'bittering'.
After reading up a bit, I thought that either Cascade or Cintra would be good to try. I also remembered the fruity bitterness that Galaxy imparts to beers and decided to go with that for my initial foray considering the fruit being used. A planned risk.
Technique: 28 lt of juice 50:50 Granny Smith and Crofton inoculated with EC1118 and left to get into active primary fermentation. I put 50g of Galaxy hop pellets into a mesh 'sock' with a float attached and added to the ferment for 72hrs (+/- 15min :-)). I fished the sock (and float) out, being careful not to squeeze the 'teabag' too much. The primary fermentation was left to complete to dry before transfer and priming for conditioning in bottles.
Taste? Sharpness from the Granny Smith plus appliness from both Grannies and Croftons. Galaxy hops added a complementary fruity note but also a satisfying and thirst quenching slight bitter edge. The limited time on hops ensured that it did not overpower the underlying apple cider flavour.
The neighbours, so far, think that it is great. Fellow ciderists, down at the social club, had varying opinions, depending on their partiality to hops in general. Overall, and after a concentrated appraisal, they thought it was successful. Me too!
After more thought, I would do this again if the appropriate apple combo presented itself. I would probably try dry hopping with our local Cascade hops for a different flavour profile next time however. If there was a surfeit of dessert apples at some stage next season I might also try fermenting on the hops from start to finish to get a feel for that technique too.
Best
Steve
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages