Thawing frozen juice

[Mike Lachelt]

Hello group,

For reasons to do with space, I have frozen a few IBC's filled with apple juice (with headspace for expansion). I added sulphite to the juice as well as a pectin enzyme, kept it cold (4C) for a few days, and then froze it. Now I'm thinking about issues related to thawing the juice in preparation for fermentation with a cultured yeast, and was hoping the group might have thoughts and/or experience with this.

I wonder if there is an ideal amount of time to thaw the juice? Should the thawing occur "gently," perhaps by leaving the tanks outside for longer (at about 4C to 9C), or more quickly, by moving them inside sooner and turning up the heat to 15-17C (i.e. pitching temperature)?

Also, it seems likely that there will be uneven temperatures in the tank. The outer region might reach 15 degrees while the middle is still at 9, for example. So perhaps stirring and waiting a few days for the tank to even out will be in order?

Thanks again for your thoughts!

Cheers,
Mike

[Matt Cavers]

Good question - I'm also eager to hear some answers as I'll be thawing a couple of IBCs of juice shortly.

M.

[Andrew Lea]

On 15/11/2015 20:51, Mike Lachelt wrote:

> Now I'm thinking about issues related to thawing
> the juice in preparation for fermentation with a cultured yeast, and
> was hoping the group might have thoughts and/or experience with
> this.

Seems nobody here has much to say. So I'll just point out this was
discussed recently on Cider Digest # 1993 and 1994. You can find them at
the archives here http://www.talisman.com/cider/curyr/index.html

Andrew

--
near Oxford, UK
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Clinton McDougall]

Hello from Vancouver,

I have frozen and thawed IBCs a couple of times this year. Juice was sulphited prior to freezing and inoculated after thawing once it reached 14°. After speaking with a few other cider makers about this, the general consensus was to get it thawed as quickly as possible to inoculate, as the goal with most of these particular totes was to use a cultured yeast and allow the fermentation to assert dominance over anything else present.

I used a stainless steel mixing paddle to break up the ice block and move it around inside the tote, both to get liquid contact to faster melt the ice, but also to avoid stratification. Depending on the ambient temp, I could usually chisel a hole right down through the centre of the ice block after 3-4 days (it's seems really tough at first, but gives way once you get down a couple inches) Thaw speeds up once you do this, smaller chunks are easier to melt.

In the summer heat 20-28°C, it took about 7-9 days to thaw 1100L, in early fall 15-20° it was closer to 10-12 days.

ps. A thawing totes drips a lot of condensation!

Hope that helps. 

Clinton

Sunday Cider

[Mike Lachelt]

Thanks Andrew! Mike

Sent from my iPhone

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[Mike Lachelt]

Thanks Clinton, this is really informative!!  I wasn't sure how long it would take to defrost so it's nice to know what to expect.  Great idea about splitting the ice block.  A stainless paddle, wow!!   Thanks again,

Mike

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[Bob Luke]

Hi Folks-

I've been thinking about doing this too, freezing some IBCs so that I can keep production going throughout the year.  It's too late for this season, but maybe next year!  To help with the thaw I am considering the idea of imbedding a coil of 3/4" stainless tubing in center of the frozen juice, then using a circulator pump to push slightly warm water through it during the thawing.

Does it seem like a viable plan?  Thanks for any input.

/bob

p.s.- Mike, how much headspace did you leave?

---

From: mlac...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Thawing frozen juice
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 18:05:18 -0800
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

Thanks Clinton, this is really informative!!  I wasn't sure how long it would take to defrost so it's nice to know what to expect.  Great idea about splitting the ice block.  A stainless paddle, wow!!   Thanks again,

Mike

On Nov 20, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Clinton McDougall <clintonm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello from Vancouver,

I have frozen and thawed IBCs a couple of times this year. Juice was sulphited prior to freezing and inoculated after thawing once it reached 14°. After speaking with a few other cider makers about this, the general consensus was to get it thawed as quickly as possible to inoculate, as the goal with most of these particular totes was to use a cultured yeast and allow the fermentation to assert dominance over anything else present.

I used a stainless steel mixing paddle to break up the ice block and move it around inside the tote, both to get liquid contact to faster melt the ice, but also to avoid stratification. Depending on the ambient temp, I could usually chisel a hole right down through the centre of the ice block after 3-4 days (it's seems really tough at first, but gives way once you get down a couple inches) Thaw speeds up once you do this, smaller chunks are easier to melt.

In the summer heat 20-28°C, it took about 7-9 days to thaw 1100L, in early fall 15-20° it was closer to 10-12 days.

ps. A thawing totes drips a lot of condensation!

Hope that helps. 

Clinton

Sunday Cider

On Sunday, 15 November 2015 12:51:01 UTC-8, Mike Lachelt wrote:

Hello group,For reasons to do with space, I have frozen a few IBC's filled with apple juice (with headspace for expansion).  I added sulphite to the juice as well as a pectin enzyme, kept it cold (4C) for a few days, and then froze it. Now I'm thinking about issues related to thawing the juice in preparation for fermentation with a cultured yeast, and was hoping the group might have thoughts and/or experience with this.  

I wonder if there is an ideal amount of time to thaw the juice?  Should the thawing occur "gently," perhaps by leaving the tanks outside for longer (at about 4C to 9C), or more quickly, by moving them inside sooner and turning up the heat to 15-17C (i.e. pitching temperature)?
Also, it seems likely that there will be uneven temperatures in the tank.  The outer region might reach 15 degrees while the middle is still at 9, for example.  So perhaps stirring and waiting a few days for the tank to even out will be in order?
Thanks again for your thoughts!  
Cheers,
Mike

--
--

[Mike Lachelt]

Hi Bob,

I left 10% headspace.  I haven't seen my tanks since I had them frozen, so I can't say for sure that 10% is sufficient...but I'm hoping it's enough!

Interesting idea about the coil...I can't see anything wrong with it, but I can't reassure you either.  Best of luck,

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Bob Luke]

Mike, thanks for the info.  I am sure your tanks are fine.  Otherwise you would have gotten an irate call from the storage facility re: ice skating on an apple juice pond!

/bob

---

From: mlac...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Thawing frozen juice

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:37:33 -0800
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

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