Fining to remove excess tannin

[Carl Silverlock-Eriksen]

Hi, I have done gelatin/bentonite tests on my Dabinett/Crab apple cider with a view to removing some tannin. 4 ml of each gave the best result but it was still quite hazy six hours later when compared with my control sample. When i stuck a straw in the top and carefully sampled it, it did seem to have worked in regards to removing the tannin, but the sediment immediately clouded the sample. 
Should I have given it a lot longer to clear?
Would a slight excess of bentonite be advisable to make sure all of the gelatin is removed?
Would it be a better idea to get some kieselsol instead, would the more solid sediment mean that I could rack off clear cider?

Thanks in advance

Carl

[Andrew Lea]

Have you been following some sort of recipe or procedure for your test fining or just doing it 'on the hoof'? I would say six hours is not long enough if using bentonite. I'd wait at least overnight and keep it cool. If you use the proportions given in my book or my website you should generally be OK, but you can experiment with more or less gelatine if you like. Both gelatine and bentonites vary. But if you buy from a specialist supplier like Erblsoeh then they will give you data sheets and conditions of use for their specific products. 

Ideally you would use kieselsol which is much more efficient than bentonite and forms much more compact bottoms. Also, if your plan is to remove tannins then you should add the gelatin first and the kieselsol second. 

If tannin removal is the main objective, not clarification, then you could consider using Polyclar which is an insoluble PVPP which removes tannins but does not clarify per se. 

Andrew 

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

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[Carl Silverlock-Eriksen]

Thanks Andrew, I followed your procedure. I've just looked up polyclar. Sounds like a good idea. I'll get some and do some trials. Any suggestion as to the best procedure for the trials?

[Andrew Lea]

On 02/04/2017 19:13, Carl Silverlock-Eriksen wrote:
> Thanks Andrew, I followed your procedure. I've just looked up polyclar.
> Sounds like a good idea. I'll get some and do some trials. Any
> suggestion as to the best procedure for the trials?

You'll have to check the Polyclar data sheet and be prepared to
experiment with different doses. Most of what is in the data sheets is
about beer and wine, not cider. Many years ago I used it with a client
in the cider vinegar business at a dose of 0.5 g per litre to remove
haze precursor tannins. That may be OTT for what you need because it
would be crazy to use Dabinett and then spend money taking most of the
tannins out of your cider. You may need a lot less.

The other thing to bear in mind is that Polyclar is a contact treatment
resin, not a fining agent. Hence it needs to be kept in continuous
suspension by gentle stirring. We stirred ours for 24 hr AFAIR. But
again that may be OTT for what you need. Time is another variable in
your trials.

Andrew

--
near Oxford, UK

[Carl Silverlock-Eriksen]

Ok, if I go for 0.25 as an upper limit. This really is more like fine tuning, I really don't need to take much out. It's for my first competition. 

Thanks

Carl

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 21:47:41 UTC+1, Carl Silverlock-Eriksen wrote: