Ethanol taste in chaptalize cider.

[James O Donoghue]

Hi, over the last number of years I have tried to make an 8% Alc apple wine using dessert apple and chaptalisation (using beet sugar) to move the alcohol content from 6.5% to 8%. Unfortunately, I always taste the ethanol in the finished product.

How can I get an 8% alc apple wine without the ethanol taste?

( I do use yeast nutrition in my fermentation)

Thank you so much for any advice you may have.

James

[Andrew Lea]

What apples? What yeast (or is it wild?)

Andrew

——————————

Wittenham Hill Cider Page

www.cider.org.uk

On 18 Aug 2025, at 09:00, James O Donoghue <ja...@dovehillorchard.ie> wrote:

Hi, over the last number of years I have tried to make an 8% Alc apple wine using dessert apple and chaptalisation (using beet sugar) to move the alcohol content from 6.5% to 8%. Unfortunately, I always taste the ethanol in the finished product.

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[James O Donoghue]

Hi Andrew & Bennie.

Thank you both for your comments.

Andrew, please see the details below.

Apples. Percentage by juice volume.

Michelin 25%

Dadinett 25%

Bramley 25%

Red Prince 15%

Idred 10%

Yeast Laffort Spark at 25g/hl

Nutrient Fermaid C at 40g/hl in a split application. 20g/hl at the start of fermentation and the second one-third sugar depletion.

Chaptalize sugar added before the Yeast was pitched.

Bennie, please see the comments below.

No. 1. Interestingly, the start temperature of the juice was 9.8 °C. I heated the juice 20 °C and pitched the Yeast. Maybe I overcooked it.

No 2. Yes, it has entirely fermented out SG 0.998

No.3. pH was 3.06 at the start of fermentation. I do not have the equipment to measure acidity. As you can see from the blend, there should be plenty of Tannins.

No 4 My start alcohol was 7% SG1053 I only brought it up to 8%

No.5 I have not done this. I will try this and wait to see what happens

No. 6. I have outlined the Yeast and nutrients above for your review.

I'm looking forward to hearing back from you.

James.

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[Andrew Lea]

Cider will necessarily taste of alcohol since that is its major component. And the more you chaptalise the more it may be. But do you mean ethanol in the true sense or a congener like butanol or phenylethanol? These can sometimes taste much more alcoholic and at a much lower percentage than ethanol itself.

The apples you have chosen are not terribly “apple -like” (apart from Dabinett and its tannins) and in some ways you need something fruitier which will counterbalance the ethanol. I suggest dropping all the nutrients, fermenting slowly and possibly using wild yeast not a cultured strain.  Were the apples fully ripe? Few apples in the UK and Ireland are anywhere ripe for cider making yet. The apples themselves should be stored to develop inherent flavour.  Aim for a fermentation that takes weeks / months, not days. I have no experience of the yeast you use and what its flavour profile is intended to be. Time of maturation is also very important. Perhaps you are trying to do everything too quickly (If this the 2025 crop, not 2024?)

I think experiment is the key to this.  We do not know exactly what your required flavour balance is because we all have different perceptions. It’s up to you!

Good luck,

Andrew

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[Brent Miles-Wagner]

Is it possible Bennie sent you a PM? We aren't seeing their reply.

My questions are: 

• What was the temperature during fermentation? It does feel like if you heated it to 20C and then let it go without temp control plus the nutrients that you just fermented too hot, which afaik can create more fusel alcohols
• How long after fermentation is complete are you tasting the ethanol? And are you sure the aroma you don't like is ethanol?
• If you don't like the taste of alcohol/ethanol, what is the goal of chaptalizing to 8%?

[James O Donoghue]

Hi Andrew.

Thank you for your feed back.

The apples i have used were harvested in the autumn of 2024. All hand picked into timber bins and allowed to fully mature over a 3 to 4 week time period. I normally do a few iodine ripeness test to see how things are going.

Is a waxy layer on the outside the apple before pressing good or bad for cider in your opinion?

The cider i am referring to was fermented in Nov 2024 and i start to bottle it in the last month or so.

Interestingly i am not a fan of wild fermentation, because of the funky flavours that some fermentation can develop, but i will give it a try in 2025.

 Regards 

James.

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[Andrew Lea]

Thanks for the extra info. 

I still don’t understand why you would want to remove the taste of ethanol from cider, least of all by actually adding it via chaptalisation which makes no sense that I can see.

I don't want to sound insulting,, but are you actually familiar with the taste of ethanol in water as opposed to eg acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, various higher alcohols and the many other volatiles in cider which are actually much “pokier” than is ethanol, and have much more aroma?  Are you barking up the wrong tree?  Why do you think adding more ethanol will make the fermentation less alcoholic?

As I said before, if you don't like the taste profile of the yeast you use, then drop the nutrients and experiment with a wider range of yeast types which can generate a huge range of possible flavour.

Good luck!

Andrew

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