Frost damage to cider apple and perry pear trees

[michael]

I have a copy of Raymond Bush's books 'Frost and the Fruit Grower' and 'Fruit Growing diaries 1933-37? ',in which the issue of frost on fruit tree blossom seemed a major consideration way back in those days.He regularly talks about several degrees (F) of frost in May blackening the emerging blossom on pears and apples.It seems to me that our winters are somewhat milder than some years ago,and I havent given the problem a thought until recently,when we had quite a severe frost in our part of Herefordshire.My vine shoots were killed,emerging potatoes were completely blackened,but I could not find any evidence of damage to the full blossom out on perry pears,and emerging pink blossom on my cider apples.

Have any others experienced a bad frost,say a week ago,and did it affect any fruit blossom.

Michael

[greg l.]

The damage to blossoms won't become apparent till the blossoms drop
off and no fruit forms. In my experience the extent of damage depends
on the flowering stage when the frost hit. If the trees were in full
flower, with most blossoms open but no fruit formed yet the damage can
be quite bad. If a decent portion of the blossoms still haven't
opened, or flowering is nearly finished, the damage is not so bad. It
also depends how bad the frost was.
Cider apples flower quite late so aren't as bad as some early
flowering fruits. The damage isn't immediately apparent the way it is
with vines. If you have a few different cultivars it helps because
they will be at different stages. Usually one side of the tree will be
hit worse than the other, don't quite know why that is.

Greg

[Andrew Lea]

I believe there is anecdotal evidence that (some?) UK varieties of cider
apples and perry pears in blossom are inherently more frost resistant
than their dessert counterparts, even for the same degree of frost
exposure at a comparable blossom stage. I was having a conversation with
a very longstanding UK grower the other day and he confirmed that to me;
and it's not the first time I've been told it. So it may be a bit more
than just 'cider apples tend to flower late' (which is of course true).

I agree with Greg that in practice it's difficult to be sure of the
extent of topfruit frost damage until the fruitlets fail to form, so a
frost only a week ago may not be showing too much effect yet. Within
the last couple of weeks I have watched bees (hive and wild) working
plum blossom by day while the temperature was well below freezing at
night - I wondered if the insects were wasting their time but it will
take a week or two more until I can be sure ;-)

Andrew

[greg l.]

It wouldn't surprise me if cider cultivars are a bit less frost
sensitive. My crab apple seedlings I use for cider tend to be more
reliable.
I wonder if better hardiness could be due to a less uniform flowering
period - dessert fruit growers value uniformity of flowering and
ripening but I imagine these factors are less important when selecting
cider cultivars. Less uniform flowering would mean fewer of the
blossoms are at the stage when they are at maximum frost
sensitivity.With apples the window of frost sensitivity is smaller
than stone fruits. Before the flowers have opened and after the
fruitlets have formed the flowers are fairly safe, except from the
hardest frosts.

Greg

[Stephen Hayes]

Our apple crop was wiped out by late April and early May frosts in 1997. We were not alone.

 

I have Raymond Bush’s book of frost too, and note how they used to send loads of men with oil burners all round the orchard. Evidently labour and oil were cheap and fruit was costlyu then!

 

I agree its too early to say what this curious weather will do, and probably it will be patchy.

 

Stephen

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[Andrew Lea]

waOn 21/04/2012 15:08, Stephen Hayes wrote:
> Our apple crop was wiped out by late April and early May frosts in 1997.
> We were not alone.

> I have Raymond Bush�s book of frost too, and note how they used to send

> loads of men with oil burners all round the orchard. Evidently labour
> and oil were cheap and fruit was costlyu then!
>

An alternative and I think less expensive but counter-intuitive method
is spray irrigation (see eg
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/resmgmt/publist/600Series/670100-1.pdf p 25)
making use of the latent heat given up as water freezes. I remember a
lot of experimental work on it at Long Ashton when I was there in the
1970's but I'm not sure if it is used commercially in the UK now. As far
as I recall the timing was quite critical so that you might have to wake
up and spray at 3 a.m. (alarm triggered by temperature drop). The staff
who were assigned to the project worked very unsocial hours and had a
caravan where they could sleep out in the orchard till the alarm called
them!

Andrew

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www.cider.org.uk

[Vicky]

On 21 April 2012 15:08, Stephen Hayes <haye...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Our apple crop was wiped out by late April and early May frosts in 1997. We
> were not alone.
>
> I have Raymond Bush’s book of frost too, and note how they used to send
> loads of men with oil burners all round the orchard. Evidently labour and
> oil were cheap and fruit was costlyu then!
>
> I agree its too early to say what this curious weather will do, and probably
> it will be patchy.
>
> Stephen
>

I have a young Quince tree which I am training, it put on a lot of new
leaf last month which the cold gusts have nearly destroyed the last
few days here in Cornwall. All the new leaf is scorched and brown and
it's looking very unhappy indeed. James Grieve is in blossom but my
dabinett hasn't even begun to bud. Maybe it knows something and has
more sense!

Vicky

[Stephen Hayes]

Walking in my cider orchard today, the Le Bret is almost in full bloom, the
Yarlington Mill is at early pink bud, the Dabinets are barely at bud burst.
Shame about the quince, you might need to think about shelter, for example a
willow hurdle, if its open to a bad prevailing wind. But don't worry about
the Dabinet.

Stephen

>
> Stephen
>
I have a young Quince tree which I am training, it put on a lot of new
leaf last month which the cold gusts have nearly destroyed the last
few days here in Cornwall. All the new leaf is scorched and brown and
it's looking very unhappy indeed. James Grieve is in blossom but my
dabinett hasn't even begun to bud. Maybe it knows something and has
more sense!

Vicky

--

[greg l.]

> An alternative and I think less expensive but counter-intuitive method

> is spray irrigation (see eghttp://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/resmgmt/publist/600Series/670100-1.pdfp 25)

> making use of the latent heat given up as water freezes.  I remember a
> lot of experimental work on it at Long Ashton when I was there in the
> 1970's but I'm not sure if it is used commercially in the UK now. As far
> as I recall the timing was quite critical so that you might have to wake
> up and spray at 3 a.m. (alarm triggered by temperature drop). The staff
> who were assigned to the project worked very unsocial hours and had a
> caravan where they could sleep out in the orchard till the alarm called
> them!
>
> Andrew

I have an irrigation system in my vineyard to protect against frost.
It is easier in a vineyard, the sprinklers are mounted above the rows
at 4m spacing and spray a fine mist down the rows. It is a bugger to
go out around midnight on a freezing cold night, turn on the
sprinklers and make sure none are blocked. The heat of fusion as the
water freezes warms the new buds and prevents damage, very counter
intuitive. It is quite a sight to see the vineyard shrouded in ice in
the morning, the sprinklers have to stay on until there is enough heat
to melt the ice without the process reversing and freezing the buds.
You don't need to get up at 3am because it doesn't hurt to have the
sprinklers on before the frost starts, I guess it depends how much
water you have available. I met a fellow who has a 50ha vineyard under
frost sprinklers at Tumbarumba, I think he could use 50ML of water
just for frost protection.
Inland SE Australia has big problems with frost, I probably lose 1/2
my apple crop to frost every second year. Some years I lose it all.

Greg