Water filled bladder presses

[Beitelspacher Ron]

How efficient are the water filled bladder presses from Seidel or Lancman compared to various homemade rack and cloth presses?

This is for a small operation in the 1 to 2 ton category.

Thanks, Ron B

[greg l.]

I started using a lancman bladder press this year (S hemisphere). I am in the 1-2 tonne category and have found the 80L press quite good for my scale of operation. It is as efficient as my old rack press but much easier to use. My old press wasn't very well built so a well built rack press would be more efficient for juice output. The Lancman press is very solidly built, I use it with a water pump which has a pressure switch and a pressure tank so it switches off at 2.75 bar and on again at 1.5 bar, to get the pressure back up when it has dropped I just run off a bit of water till the pump starts up again.

Greg

[Claude Jolicoeur]

For that size operation, a rack & cloth of the size of the larger described in the New Cider Maker's Handbook would be quite good. I built one for 250$. Much less expensive than a Lancman...
Claude

[Dick Dunn]

Adding to Claude's note, specifically about efficiency: The bladder
presses are limited on pressure on-the-fruit. Lancman seem to be under
3 bar; Speidel just at 3 bar. So, switching units, not much over 40 psi.
This is well below the "point of diminishing returns" for pressure; you're
likely under 60% yield, nearly down in the basket-press range. Try to get
up into the 70-80 psi bracket.

A decent pack (rack&cloth) press will bring you up to more like 70%+ yield.
Particularly if you are in an area or situation where quality cider fruit
is at a premium, you'll do well to spend the extra money or construction
effort to get higher yield. Is it worth the effort to get 25% more yield?

Plus, right now (if you're in the northern hemisphere!) is a great time to
pick up some construction projects for this fall's harvest.

--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA

[greg l.]

There's no doubt a pack press is more efficient juice wise, but in the range of 1-2 tonnes juice yield isn't the only factor. A bladder press is easier to fill and operate, and easier to clean. Also you don't have to apply dangerous amounts of pressure with a hand pumped jack. Slipping of cheeses and blocking of the cloth  are other issues with a pack press. Bladder presses are also more versatile if you might be pressing other fruits eg grapes. A bladder press is easily better than a basket press.

It comes down to making the right decision for you, and making these sort of decisions is what being a cider-maker is all about. You have to weigh up money, time, convenience, safety etc.

Greg

On Thursday, 5 March 2015 17:54:53 UTC+11, Dick wrote:

[Max Nowell]

I can't really see why anyone would want a bladder press unless speed was the over-riding criterion.  Above a certain scale of operation, i suppose speed might become more important given the seasonal time-scale of cider-making, but at 1-2 tonnes, roughly the scale i'm at these days, a pack-press must be a better bet. And a well-built cheese is a lovely thing, beautiful as it squeezes down; turning on a pressure tap just doesn't come close!

[greg l.]

I can see the attraction of a full hydraulic pack press such as a voran, just make up the cheese and press a button. When you have to make up the cheese, put in some spacers, place the jack and pump it up by hand, maybe have to stop in the middle to extend the jack, then watch the frame bending as you apply 10-15 tonnes of pressure hoping nothing goes wrong such as slipping, that doesn't seem so much fun to me. Having a nice stainless steel basket you can fill with milled apple and gently squeeze out the juice, it has certain attractions to some people.

Greg

On Friday, 6 March 2015 08:48:43 UTC+11, Max Nowell wrote:

[Beitelspacher Ron]

Greg, Thank you again for your help…all of this is very helpful to me…past experience is the best source of knowledge there is….

All of you folks are great for sharing your thoughts with me.

ron b

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[Beitelspacher Ron]

Thank you sir for your time and your advice…I have your book so marked up witht high lighters and colored tabs there would barely be room for you to  autograph it…thank you

ron b

[Beitelspacher Ron]

Dick, thank you for that good advice..—those are sound numbers and will help me a lot.

I am very appreciative of your willingness to share your hard earned insights.

ron b 

[Ron Beitelspacher]

Greg, thank you very much...good luck in the future.

ron

[Beitelspacher Ron]

Well Max, when you are 70 and have paid lots of tuition over the years for many educations and usually all earned in what I would call the “hard way”…and even then sometimes with the best of intentions…either failure or more experience was the end result…and then along comes the internet and the ability to reach out and ask for advice from folks who probably have forgotten more than I may ever know about cider making….Well that is what I have done.

And I must say that I am very appreciative to all who have taken the time to help me in my continuing educations…only this one is about making cider.

And the fact that you all are probably just as busy as I seem to be this day and every day…still many have taken the time to give me their point of view. It  sort of restores one’s faith in the rest of the world out there…

And when someone like Claude Jolicoeur takes some time to respond…well I am just bowled over…that is about like Elvis showing me a better way to strum my guitar……This, indeed, is a great community.

Max, I am trying to read and learn from all of you who take some of your precious time to help me along my way.

thanks

ron b

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Ron Beitelspacher wrote:

And when someone like Claude Jolicoeur takes some time to respond…well I am just bowled over…that is about like Elvis showing me a better way to strum my guitar……This, indeed, is a great community.

Well, this is certainly the first time someone compares me to Elvis!
This has to be a milestone.

In any case, for your grinder press decision to come, it all comes to quite simple things...

Waterpress vs rack & cloth - do you value more your time or the apples?
The waterpress will let you go through your apples faster, with less work, but you will at the end get less juice from the said amount of apples.

Buying a mill-waterpress tandem vs build your own?
If you have the time, tooling and ability, you can build just as good for a few hundred $, while buying a decent kit will cost 3000 to 4000$.
However, if you value your time at 30$ per hour, buying might be cheaper, as you will easily spend 100 or more hours building your kit.
And still another way to see it is the proudness and pleasure of having made your own - this is worth more than anything else!

Your choice really - there aren't really bad choices there... Just a question of selecting what is best for you.

Claude

[Beitelspacher Ron]

well :>)))  I did grin a bit when I wrote that….your fellow afficianados —at least the ones that can outrun you—may start calling you Elvis…:>))  but I was just astonished that someone of your stature….would respond to my request for guidance…I have read your book at least 3 times and every day open it up again to one of my many page markers to help me clear up some new question in my mind…you further explanation below pretty well sums up what is going into my decison making process..  Again your response and the responses of others here is great reflection upon this cider making community.

thank

ron b