Pectinase not dissolving

[Twan Mennink]

Hi, I'm brewing cider for the first time, I took 15 liter of biological cloudy apple juice, and put it in a fermenter with some champagne yeast.

It's in for a little bit over a week now, the SG went from 1052 to 1002, and it was still bubbling strong, so I'm estimating I will end up with about 7-8% ABV.

The cider is very cloudy, so as I started reading, I quickly ordered some pectinase powder and on day 5 added 8 tsp to the batch. This did nothing, so today (day 9) in a sanitized beaker I added 16 tsp, with some of the cider, and tried to get it to dissolve. It just sank to the bottom of the glass. I added some water to try and get more of it to dissolve, but it never really seemed to dissolve into the liquid. I still added it to the carboy though, let's hope this does something.

Question: Is it normal for the pectinase to have difficulty dissolving into cider? Should I have used just water? There's now a total of 50 grams of pectinase powder in my carboy, it seems to be more than enough, what can I do next, I have gelatin, would that work?

[Andrew Lea]

I’m afraid your expectations are unrealistic, for a number of reasons.

First, any commercial biological cloudy apple juice is normally kept that way by pasteurising the juice.  This means that the cloud is a heat set combination of pectin, protein and polyphenols which will not readily clarify.  The cloud is also resistant to breakdown by pectinase (which really only works on native pectin). Depending on which country you are in, it is also possible that a clouding agent has been added to the juice (check the label) and these are usually various gums which would not be broken down by pectinase. So I’m afraid you are starting from a rather poor place if you want a clear cider.

Second, the pectinases which you can buy are not pure enzyme proteins and are not necessarily soluble. The enzymes are normally adsorbed on various fillers and carriers which don’t dissolve - this is to keep the enzyme itself more stable and active for longer than in the pure form. So it’s not a surprise you don't see the powers dissolve - they aren’t intended to.

Third, the pectinases take days or weeks to act. This is biology more than chemistry, and time is needed before any results are seen.

Fourth, pectinases aren’t very efficient in the presence of alcohol, and since your cider was already the best part of fully fermented by day 5, you are not in the best place for them to work.

I would certainly not add gelatin at this stage because it is likely to make the cider cloudier.

The best plan is to ferment to dryness, wait 3 months and then re-evaluate. As the yeast settles out and the pectinase slowly works as best as it can,  the cider may clarify naturally. However, since you started with what is probably a heat-set cloudy juice, you may just have to accept that you will end up with a cloudy cider.

Hope this helps,

Andrew

www.cider.org.uk

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[Igor Osanov]

Hi, I have similar problem with pasteurized and fermented juice now and another question is what about using filter to separate cloud after fermentation?

What kind of filtration is the best in this way?

Thanks in advance!

Отправлено из мобильной Почты Mail.ru

понедельник, 14 августа 2023 г. в 14:37 +03:00 от cider <ci...@cider.org.uk>:

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cider-workshop/D0A0D6B9-E233-4CC1-ADC4-1636AA24B25B%40cider.org.uk.

[Twan Mennink]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you so much for your extended answer, things are (no pun intended) much clearer to me now :)   So, I guess cloudy it is for this brew. I will not be adding gelatin, which I was originally planning to do. I will let it sit a bit longer, and then I intend to put the carboy in the fridge for a month or so. Meanwhile I should call some orchards to see if they will sell me some unpasturized juice. Now is the time of the year.. 

Cheers

Op maandag 14 augustus 2023 om 13:37:33 UTC+2 schreef Andrew Lea:

[Miguel A. Pereda]

If you are short of cider volume and decide to use gelatine for experimentation. It is best to add it when the cider is finished. You can add a few drops to each bottle, after experimenting with the dosage. The gelatine will act quickly and mainly on the longer chain polyphenols which may reduce some of the astringency of your cider and help some of the clarification although in some cases this may be difficult if the cloudiness is due to other causes.
 Leave it corked upside down and the sediment will settle in the neck of the bottle. You can remove them if you also open it upside down as a "disgorging".
Miguel A. Pereda