Cheese cloth

[MarkI]

is there a disadvantage to use hessian sacks (clean of course!) to be used as a cheese cloth ? Was that the old ways of doing it apart from straw ?

[Andrew Lea]

Have you ever tasted wet hessian? Do you want that baggy jute flavour in your cider?  

After straw (neutral flavoured) in the 19th century came boiled cotton or linen cloths. They are also neutral in flavour. Their disadvantage is the amount of juice they absorb. Synthetic cloths are far superior in that regard. 

Andrew 

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

On 28 Aug 2016, at 21:22, MarkI <markire...@btinternet.com> wrote:

is there a disadvantage to use hessian sacks (clean of course!) to be used as a cheese cloth ? Was that the old ways of doing it apart from straw ?

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[Andrew Lea]

Oh I forgot horsehair, coconut fibre and Manila hemp which were also used in the 19th century. They were gradually replaced by Egyptian cotton before woven synthetics overtook them all. 

Andrew 

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Handmade Cider]

Makes me wonder about some of the cloths I have that I am sure were supplied with my press when new. There are only 2 left now and one of them burst last season, the press is a 100t Beare, I think new in the 40's and the cloths in question are natural, have the slubs in the fibres one expects from hemp but I thought hemp was out by then...

Denis

Denis France   www.handmadecider.co.uk   07590 264804  Company. No. 07241330

White Label – Champion Farmhouse Cider, Bath & West Show 2015.

Spring Surprise - Cider of the Festival Chippenham Camra Beer Festival 2015 & 2014

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Andrew Lea <ci...@cider.org.uk> wrote:

Oh I forgot horsehair, coconut fibre and Manila hemp which were also used in the 19th century. They were gradually replaced by Egyptian cotton before woven synthetics overtook them all. 

Andrew 

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

On 28 Aug 2016, at 21:39, Andrew Lea <ci...@cider.org.uk> wrote:

Have you ever tasted wet hessian? Do you want that baggy jute flavour in your cider?  

After straw (neutral flavoured) in the 19th century came boiled cotton or linen cloths. They are also neutral in flavour. Their disadvantage is the amount of juice they absorb. Synthetic cloths are far superior in that regard. 

Andrew 

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

On 28 Aug 2016, at 21:22, MarkI <markireland2004@btinternet.com> wrote:

is there a disadvantage to use hessian sacks (clean of course!) to be used as a cheese cloth ? Was that the old ways of doing it apart from straw ?

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[Tim]

Hi
Where is a good place to buy new synthetic cloths?
Thanks

[MarkI]

Thanks for the answer, I was going to try it but as you pointed out it would give a strange foul flavour ! Synthetic cloths for me then, Do you know any suppliers as I have got a large twin screw press with a large press bed.I am going to make some cider with the old equipment that was last used forty years ago, so hopefully a success making it.

Mark

On Sunday, 28 August 2016 21:39:20 UTC+1, Andrew Lea wrote:

[Richie McBride]

I buy Voile curtain material from Dunelm Mill or any materials shop. There is a large range both in fibre strength and colours! 😃

[knivetoncider]

Ditto - Dunelm Mill - we keep away from the colours and pretty patterns though.

[Vince Wakefield]

This from ebay is good, it is what I and a number others use

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-metre-CIDER-CLOTH-CHEESE-MESH-NET-FILTER-STRAIN-FRUIT-JUICE-SCRUMPY-ML-/161834633520?hash=item25ae188930:g:wzkAAOSwsB9WAYmt

 

 

Vince

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[Ben]

Yep. Have used that person before from Ebay. If you contact them direct they have some extra strong and big stuff which is as good as new after being qwished 50+ times with 50 tons and then going through the wash at 90C a few times. Also was about 1/10 of the cost of similar items from voran etc. Think it was about £100 for a full set of 11 meshes. Not sure it will last as long as voran ones but seems very positive so far!

If you mention Ben suspect he may be able to get you the same stuff he found me last year

[Ray Blockley]

Hey don't dis the patterns...! :-) 

These photos were taken 15 & 20-ish years years ago (the older one is scanned pre-digital) when we were using strong terylene fine-mesh net curtains from our local market (pre Dunelm Mill days). Strength & mesh size was our target so if it had a slight pattern it wasn't a big deal. They do last a long time. We found that the patterned-net cheeses gave a higher yield... (cough!)

Ray.

Torkard Cider. 

 

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Ben <benfa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yep. Have used that person before from Ebay. If you contact them direct they have some extra strong and big stuff which is as good as new after being qwished 50+ times with 50 tons and then going through the wash at 90C a few times. Also was about 1/10 of the cost of similar items from voran etc. Think it was about £100 for a full set of 11 meshes. Not sure it will last as long as voran ones but seems very positive so far!

If you mention Ben suspect he may be able to get you the same stuff he found me last year

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[Joe Brind]

I m building a rack and cloth press and the racks will be 60cm square what size cloths should I go for and what size should the cheese be compared to the racks themselves pre pressure thanks great site

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le mercredi 7 septembre 2016 11:15:02 UTC-4, Joe Brind a écrit :

I m building a rack and cloth press and the racks will be 60cm square what size cloths should I go for and what size should the cheese be compared to the racks themselves pre pressure thanks great site

Joe, the size of the cheese should be somewhat smaller than the racks to avoid the cheeses produding too much outside the racks under the pressure. This would depend on the height of the layers. For example, if your layers are 6 cm high, I would then suggest to make the square cheese form with an interior dimension of 55 to 56 cm for 60 cm racks. If you choose thicker layers, then this dimension could be a bit smaller.
For the size of the press clothes, in the New Cider Maker's Handbook I suggest to take 2 times the interior dimension of the square plus one and a half the height of the layer. This would give you about 115 to 120 cm square. Note this gives plenty of overlap, and you could make them slightly smaller, but I wouldn't go under 105 cm square.
Claude

[Seva Nechaev]

четверг, 8 сентября 2016 г., 4:44:39 UTC+3 пользователь Claude Jolicoeur написал:

are 6 cm high, I would then suggest to make the square cheese form with an interior dimension of 55 to 56 cm for 60 cm racks.

Hmm. Claude, in your book you suggest 41.3 cm (16 in.) form internal dimension for 7.8 cm (3 in.) sizes. Could you mean more 9 cm than 6? Or have you reconsidered ideal proportions?

The question is kinda crucial for me as I was prepared to send form/tray/racks blueprints to the factory just tomorrow:)

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Seva, I am not sure I understand your question...
In the book, I suggest 41.3 cm for the form internal width, which is 4 cm less than the rack width - quite similar to what I told Joe yesterday.
Are you worried about the form height which is a bit larger at 7.8 cm in the book? I suppose you could make your square form slightly smaller, but honestly I don't think it would really make a difference.
I just checked my own press... the racks are 43 cm, and the form internal width is 38,5 cm (4.5 cm less) and the height is 8 cm. Works fine like that...
You can see from this photo
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMns-H4Leg9gAvJlmHptNJiocSDM52G5C32jiJX/photo/AF1QipMepjzXSzFTscPAGSJk_tXVUhvWDu7r34-ofAIi
that when fully compressed the layers are well contained inside the racks. And even the form internal width could be a bit larger and the layers would still be contained...

Does this answer your question?
Claude

[Seva Nechaev]

Claude, sorry for the typo -- q. was about the form height of course. 

So, what is the general rule -- the greater the racks, the higher the form, or the lower? 

пятница, 9 сентября 2016 г., 4:08:50 UTC+3 пользователь Claude Jolicoeur написал:

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Le vendredi 9 septembre 2016 03:47:37 UTC-4, Seva Nechaev a écrit :

Claude, sorry for the typo -- q. was about the form height of course. 

So, what is the general rule -- the greater the racks, the higher the form, or the lower? 

There is no general rule as far as I know. It is only acompromise between
1- thinner for a greater number of layers, longer time to build the cheese, shorter pressing time.
2- thicker for fewer layers, less time for building the cheese, more time under the press, possibly slightler lower yield.

Aywhere between 6 and 9 cm will work fine...

Claude

[Seva Nechaev]

I see.. I was under impression that form height should affect the clearance between form and rack edge. Like, the higher is the form, the more space we need for a cheese to extend.

Thanks, Claude.

пятница, 9 сентября 2016 г., 13:08:14 UTC+3 пользователь Claude Jolicoeur написал: