Tannins in Red Fleshed Apples

[Scott Harring]

Beginner question, but I'm having trouble tracking the answer down.  Is there a difference in general taste profile between a traditional tannic cider apple and a red fleshed cider apple?  Other than color of course.  Like Redfield or Otterson, will they have the same effect on ferment as your general bittersharp, or will the redness of their juice affect taste in a special way?  I'm looking to add a few more tannic apples to blend with my dessert apples, and wondering if I need to plant classic bittersharp/bittersweet or will get the same effect with something red.

[Alma Cider]

I grow about 9 types of Redflesh apples and have made a number of Single Varietal Rosé ciders. One thing that I find all Redflesh apples have in common is that, Redflesh apples are sharp and much more acid forward. TA ~ 10.5-14, pH~ 3.2-3.3. Less abundant in the Tannins department…

The end result is lovely but not going to be a high tannin cider without additions or blending. 

Y. Dave Klawer (he/him)

Alma Cider 

Cidermaker/ Orchardist 

Certified Pommelier ™️

Board Member of the Northwest Cider Association 

On Apr 24, 2024, at 8:48 PM, Scott Harring <harrin...@gmail.com> wrote:



Beginner question, but I'm having trouble tracking the answer down.  Is there a difference in general taste profile between a traditional tannic cider apple and a red fleshed cider apple?  Other than color of course.  Like Redfield or Otterson, will they have the same effect on ferment as your general bittersharp, or will the redness of their juice affect taste in a special way?  I'm looking to add a few more tannic apples to blend with my dessert apples, and wondering if I need to plant classic bittersharp/bittersweet or will get the same effect with something red.

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[Scott Harring]

Aha, thanks for your experience Dave. Maybe I'll put in another Otterson but not go too overboard with reds then.  Still trying to figure out how I can get some reliable trees with tannins to blend with my desert and dual purpose heritage apples in a no-spray setting.  I have a few European bittersweets.  But my neighbor has got a bunch of pears full of fireblight so I'm cautious about allocating too much of my orchard to susceptible varieties. 

[Wes Cherry]

Our Redfield apples have tons of astringent tannins.  So much so that a SV of them isn’t very drinkable.  We blend with Arlie’s Redflesh which isn’t very tannic.   

Otteson trees should provide a decent crop this year.   Their juice is much redder than Redfield’s and much much moreso than Arlies.

IMO rosé ciders shouldn’t have much in the way of tannins as they distract from the red fruit fruitiness.  Similar to rosé wines...

-'//es Cherry
w...@dragonsheadcider.com
Vashon WA, USA

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[Gloria Bell]

I have a lot of varieties of red fleshed cider and eating apples.  They all have tannins and many have tannic skins and I'm speaking mostly of red leaved red fleshed Type one Hansen type like Redfield, Otterson (haven't tried this one yet), Geneva, Niedz.  These are tannic and acid bombs but that will also depend on where they are grown as I have heard of a lot of variation as with other apples.   Type Ones tend to be more primitive in flavour and have more tannin, acid and bittering (some varieties) components which is great for cider but are harder for sure to make a single varietal.  They can be weak in the middle or harsh at the end ect so blending is your best best.  They add a nice pomegrante, cranberry, rasberry, red berry and sometimes soft strawberry to a blend which rounds out to be a jolly rancher type experience.  Red fleshed are a great acid component if you have a lot of bittersweets planted.

I'm in Pacific northwest and Airlie Redflesh/Mountain Rose/Hidden Rose (all same apple) doesn't have much tannin but has over the top acid for me.  Those that are grown in hotter areas will naturally have less acid but perhaps less colour.  It's also a very late apple and ripening it in short season climate is a futile battle for some.  Don't pick them underripe - been there done that and not worth the effort there.  The Type Two red fleshed Etter type apples with green leaves and green inner wood can have tannins too but they are a lot more approachable and dare I say refined.  More suited to eating or eating for those looking for a unique experience.  I also think that the closer an apple gets to becoming a grocery store apple, the less flavour we get in the cider.  

I should also note that type one red flesh has more tannin but if you use them in a pie, those tannins settle with cooking and they are delish in pies and cumbles!