Malolactic fermentation and development on bottle q:s
Andreas Sundgren
Have been following recent discussions here about fermentation times
closely. Interesting and educational. Thank you all.
A few questions.
1. Mostly out of interest; Can Malolacitc fermentation occur in
bottled cider or will it only happen in larger vessels?
2. To what extent, if there is a noticable difference, does the cider
mature and develop in bottle as opposed to being left to develop in
larger vessels? More? Less? Differently?
All the best,
Andreas/www.brannlandcider.se
Michael Cobb
> A few questions.
>
> 1. Mostly out of interest; Can Malolacitc fermentation occur in
> bottled cider or will it only happen in larger vessels?
>
A few years ago now I shortlisted a cider to enter at Bath and West in
February shortly after bottling it. It was fully dry but come May when I
wanted to transfer it to the competition bottles it had developed a slight
fizz. Normally I do not like any fizz in cider as (to my taste) it masks
and destroys the taste of the cider, just giving a mouth feel rather than
a flavour. The cider must have undergone a malolactic in bottle as there
had been no sugar left to create the fizz. I debated entering something
else as I do not like fizz, but in the end stuck to my original decision
and won the class!
Michael Cobb
from Heather
Heather
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:40:45 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Malolactic fermentation and development on bottle q:s
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greg l.
all is regarded as a serious fault and renders the wine unsaleable.
The main reason is the carbonic acid produced by dissolved co2, gives
the wine quite a sour taste. Also wild MLF can produce off flavours if
the wrong micro-organisms are involved. Just about all red table wine
gets MLF, whether wild or cultured, because the red pigments bind to
so2 and so it is hard to protect red wine from wild MLF. White wines
and cider, without pigments, are more stable in the bottle because the
so2 is more effective. However, with high levels of malic acid, cider
with low levels of so2 is very likely to undergo a wild MLF.
Greg
from Heather
Anyway, to have change the flavor profile, well that's more serious to me, especially to something unpleasant. Everything I'm googling says it is the lactic aroma of cured meats, or describing a dirty dishcloth. I wish the lecture I had heard had a website...
Heather
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:08:53 -0700
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Malolactic fermentation and development on bottle q:s
> From: breadandb...@gmail.com
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Dick Dunn
> To me, fizz would be a minor flaw in wines. Let me stress that - "to
> me." However, I do know that fizz changes taxation here in the US.
It does, but not at any level you're likely to achieve by chance.
The taxation (which goes up by something like a factor of 5, iirc, inal,
and ymmv) changes at 3.92 g/l of CO2, which is like "seltzer" level of
sparkle. Along with the carbonation level, there are rules about not
saying things like "Sparkling" on the label unless you want to pay a lot
more tax.
Isn't there something similar in the UK due to EU regs? I recall Julian
Temperley having a fit over exorbitant taxation on his bottle-conditioned
KB and Stoke Red, unless I'm much mistaken.
--
Dick Dunn rc...@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
NB
The Harmonised System of the (international) Customs Tarif defines 'sparkling' as being in bottles and having 3 bar pressure or more at 20'C due to CO2 or with mushroom-shaped stoppers held in place with ties or fastenings (my simplification from memory - note the 2nd 'or').
As Dick indicates, 3bar at 20'C is rather less than 4 gm per litre or <2 volumes - the measure still in occasional use in the UK at least.
Best
Nick
Andrew Lea
lactic acid bacteria so I thought a (short!) essay might help to put
things into perspective.
There are literally thousands of species of bacteria which can
metabolise carbohydrates to form lactic acid as a major metabolite.
Amongst them are those in genera such as lactobacilli, leuconostoc,
pediococcus, streptococcus and many others. All are known as 'lactic
acid bacteria'. They are ubiquitous in nature and are responsible for
the formation of dental plaque, yoghurt, sourdough, sauerkraut and most
traditional forms of pickled foods such as olives and fish amongst many
others. They are also 'commensals' associated with the maintenance of a
healthy pH balance in the mammalian gut and vagina - we all have them
living inside us. It is believed that many strains also produce
'bacteriocins' which are inhibitory to pathogenic bacteria.
The food-associated organisms are mostly tolerant of high salt and low
pH, conditions which are hostile to nearly all food poisoning organisms,
and by their metabolism they enhance this effect, hence they are
typically regarded as beneficial. In pickles they convert the sugars in
the vegetables to acid which is a part of traditional maturation. In the
case of dairy products, they metabolise lactose to form lactic acid
which drops the pH and helps to preserve for instance yoghurt and they
also produce a polysaccharide 'glucan' which provides the characteristic
thick texture.
In acid fruit-based beverages such as ciders and wines, lactic acid
bacteria can have a wide range of effects, good and bad. Typical species
are strains of lactobacilli, leuconostoc, oenoccus and pediococcus. They
typically ferment malic acid to lactic acid and by doing so liberate
carbon dioxide (not the case in most other foods). This is what we know
as the malo-lactic fermentation (MLF) which is evident by the formation
of gas and the lowering of acidity (compare with yoghurt, where the
acidity goes up). This may or may not be required for a particular style
of wine / cider. Apart from the change in acid, they also generate new
flavour components as they work. Two classic examples are the formation
of diacetyl 'buttery' notes in Chardonnay wines and the formation of
spicy / phenolic notes in bittersweet ciders. Both these are typically
regarded as positive quality factors. On the negative side, some strains
and species can be responsible for defects such as ropy cider (again,
compare with yoghurt), mousiness, acetoin, and excessive (anaerobic)
acetification (as in some Spanish ciders).
Whether malolactic bacteria are 'good' or 'bad' in ciders depends
entirely on the organisms present and their context. For the last 20
years or so it has been possible to buy MLF organisms (strains of
Oenococcus) taken from wine fermentations and cultured for the wine
industry. The primary focus of these is probably acidity reduction
rather than the generation of more subtle flavour notes but again this
will depend upon strain and context (eg the presence of particular
nutrients).
I hope this all helps. There is much more information on Wikipedia eg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid_bacteria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
www.cider.org.uk
Andreas Sundgren
Thank you for your replies, I got some legislative knowledge
on EU and US taxation regulations to boot...
So to re-phrase my first question, malolactic fermentation can occur
in bottle although unlikely.
Correct?
Still the second q still awaits debate.
Is there a noticable difference between aging in larger vessels vs
aging in bottle?
- More/less develpment?
- Faster/slower development?
- No noticable difference in development?
Looking forward to more feedback.
All the best,
Andreas/www.brannlandcider.se
Andrew Lea
>
> So to re-phrase my first question, malolactic fermentation can occur
> in bottle although unlikely.
> Correct?
No less likely in bottle than in bulk so long as you have some active
organisms present. For instance ageing in old wooden barrels which
contain ML organisms in the pores of the wood will be faster than in
bottles which don't. If you add a culture there may be no difference. If
you add SO2 before bottling, MLF is very unlikely. Context is all.
>
> Is there a noticable difference between aging in larger vessels vs
> aging in bottle?
> - More/less develpment?
> - Faster/slower development?
> - No noticable difference in development
You cannot expect a one-word answer to this. It depends on the nature of
the cider eg bottle-conditioned vs pasteurised in bottle, and the nature
of the bulk ageing vessel eg stainless, steel, HDPE, wood etc, which all
have different oxygen permeability characteristics. Let alone issues
like temperature profiles and storage conditions.
Andreas Sundgren
Thank you very much. Clear answers as always. As for the second
question you
are right. I should have asked of course for experiences rather than
answers as
such. Will remember.
We (me and one person) are visiting the UK from the 8th. Is it
possible to meet with you?
All the best,
Andreas/www.brannlandcider.se