Sage Nutri juicer?

[Trevor Appleton]

What do people think about this juicer rather than going down the road of scratter and press? I anticipate juicing around 25 stone of apples. Also a small quantity of grapes (though more in future years).

[richard marlborough]

james adams whole fruit juicer or john lewis whole fruit juicer do the job but nevin stuart is the guy to ask.

cheers

rich

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Trevor Appleton <trevord...@gmail.com> wrote:

What do people think about this juicer rather than going down the road of scratter and press? I anticipate juicing around 25 stone of apples. Also a small quantity of grapes (though more in future years).

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[Paul Brouwer]

I have just invested in a whole fruit juicer, awaiting its arrival!  This is solely for use when I am given relatively small batches of apples and just want to do the odd gallon!  In the past I have tended to wait until I have enough apples to warrant getting all the kit dirty, and have ended up chucking stuff away.

Paul

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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 17:00:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Sage Nutri juicer?
From: ri...@prforklifts.com
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[Onslow's dry]

Hi Trevor,

The Sage machines are produced by Breville. I have not evaluated any of this series yet. However, their previous models have worked extremely well for us. We have now processed some 700kg of apples through our pair of high performance juicers and they are both still running sweetly. We reliably obtain 65% by weight of apple juice with about 1% by weight of pulp fines, removed in the straining bag.

My detailed step by step method is now published by MAKE magazine on their website which can be accessed via my blog http://juiceandstrain.wordpress.com/

Happy juicing. I think that you have made a good choice.

Nevin

[Trevor Appleton]

Marvellous that sounds like the way forward for me.

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[Jez Howat]

Trevor,

 

For the sake of clarity (and to some degree personal preference) I must point out that Cider Workshop does not promote or favour any one method of pressing fruit – despite Nevin being the world number one proponent of using juicers.

 

Juicers are handy for smaller quantities – Nevin has taken this to several hundred kg but I wouldn’t expect others to do so. A number do use juicers for small quantities of juice (where it is impractical to get the big kit out). For example, a Voran P1 rack and cloth press takes about 100kg of pomace, so not much use at this early stage of the season.

 

However, as cider makers produce more and want more robust, larger (and unfortunately more expensive equipment) then rack and cloth or even hydro-presses are hard to beat both for durability, ease of use and scale.

 

I say this as I often see Nevin putting the case for the juicer method but think that most of us (who in fact use more traditionally established methods) tend to keep quiet. Please don’t take this as a slight on ‘Juice and Strain’, although it has to be said that Nevin is very passionate about this, but I think that if it was such an advantageous method of extracting juice on a larger scale we would see industrial ‘juice and strainers’ already in use.

 

If you ever get the chance to visit Weston’s, you will see the industrial answer to pressing – the mighty Boucher press which is quite something – and has to be said is neither rack and cloth or juice and strain… but sheer bloody brute power!

 

All the best

 

Jez

 

PS – Personally, I find it difficult to see how juice and strain could be anywhere near as satisfying as rack and cloth in the production of juice or cider. After all, there is as much ‘art’ in cider making as ‘science’ and to reduce it to electronic juicers is I fear reducing that pleasure…

[Onslow's dry]

Jez,

Each to their own.

Nevin

On Tuesday, 3 September 2013 16:41:23 UTC+1, Trevor Appleton wrote:

[Tim]

Have to agree, juice and strain seems a boringly slow way to obtain apple juice, even a small mill and basket press would be favourable in my eyes.

 

Tim

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[Onslow's dry]

Do you call a gallon of apple juice produced in four minutes slow? Can I suggest that you view : http://youtu.be/Qvc0cCh5r0c.

Please remember that juice and strain is in its infancy. I can foresee many, many refinements and improvements yet to come.

Nevin

[Ray Blockley]

I use a Juicer for testing and sampling apples, a small 40kg Vigo Rack & Cloth screw press for small pressings and the Voran Rack & Cloth for large loads. Like Jez and Tim, I also concur that the juice & strain method doesn't cut it with me.

 

Each to their own - I'll stick with the better selection for me (pukka presses) as the Juicer is tedious and slow.

 

Ray

 

 

[Ray Blockley]

So an age-old trusted and efficient process that is *still* being continually tweaked, refined and developed should be ditched in favour of a Juicer...?

 

Each to their own.

 

Ray  

[Tim]

I have viewed the video, would not even consider using a juicer.

[Onslow's dry]

I think that what is needed is a fair test comparison. I am keen to see this conducted, perhaps based on equal capital outlay basis, soon.

Overall, I wish to see more people using their surplus apples and enjoying the pleasures of making and enjoying their whole fruit ciders. J&S makes this easily accessible for a minimal monetary outlay.

On Tuesday, 3 September 2013 16:41:23 UTC+1, Trevor Appleton wrote:

[vince wakefield]

 

I started making “cider” about 5 years ago, I used a large juicer, it worked very well for to qty’s I was making, 150L or so but on the 3^rd year the prospect of sitting in front of that juicer for a number of hours nearly stopped me from making any “cider” at all.

 

I have since made my own scratter and rack & cloth press and it is a much more enjoyable process all together.

 

The juicer seemed to make it a race to finish as soon as possible and I can still here the constant buzzing.

 

Where with the press you add some pressure have a cup of tea or some apple fresh apple  juice, add some more pressure, wash a few apples, check the sg, add some more pressure, etc, etc.

 

Just my view.

 

Vince

 

 

 

“Jez

 

PS – Personally, I find it difficult to see how juice and strain could be anywhere near as satisfying as rack and cloth in the production of juice or cider. After all, there is as much ‘art’ in cider making as ‘science’ and to reduce it to electronic juicers is I fear reducing that pleasure…”

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[Trevor Appleton]

 

I see what you mean – thanks Vince

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[Jez Howat]

Vince,

 

You sum it up nicely.

 

I pressed some 6-10 tons of juice for cider last year and, whilst you build in gaps for cups of tea (and the odd cigarette) there is an awful lot to do aside this… I never find myself sitting and waiting for the pressing to stop. I also like to have some delay between washing, milling and pressing – rack and cloth naturally builds this in to the schedule. I feel (especially dessert fruit) benefits from this enforced maceration… Looking backwards (sorry Nevin, I know you are trying to look forwards), pulp was slow to process and the idea of separating juice from apple in an ever increasing rush seems not to capture everything I want for my cider.

 

Jez

 

From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vince wakefield

Sent: 03 September 2013 20:50
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[Onslow's dry]

Jez,

No need of apology. I simply see it as a matter of "horses for courses", and we are all different.

Nevin

On Tuesday, 3 September 2013 16:41:23 UTC+1, Trevor Appleton wrote:

[Jez Howat]

Nevin,

 

I wasn’t apologising – although I agree with your sentiments about making use of apples.

 

I see juice and strain as ‘a’ way of juicing fruit (which is what they are designed to do). Having spent the last 11-12 years making ever larger quantities of cider – now at least to what I hope is a pretty high standard – I see that there is a lot more to getting juice out of apples than simply extracting it. Its getting high quality juice that produces a good character, good cider and behaves itself.

 

For example, if I mill dessert fruit and macerate for 24 hours I often get (from one orchard at least) a good pectin gel on top of the juice just prior to fermentation. I like the results of this – it slows things down while I am waiting for cider fruit to be ready. If I mill the same fruit and press straight away I don’t get it. For cider fruit, depending on the variety, I want to press quickly to maintain high tannin or macerate to reduce it. I also like blending the fruit that I mill as it makes for easier pressing (and some apples give up more juice than others). For those making perry, milling and preparation of the fruit is even more important, depending on variety.

 

So there are a number of factors that have led me to keep things simple and use rack and cloth – not just speed… in fact, speed is not my main priority; although as I grow my production I do appreciate the time constraints… but we are talking multiple tons of apples and only me to press them.

 

So yes, it is horses for courses and I didn’t wish to deride your method – it has a rightful place in the pantheon of apple pressing methods. However, given the above nuances to cider production I am not sure what a side by side trial would achieve.

 

All the very best

 

Jez

 

From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Onslow's dry
Sent: 03 September 2013 21:15
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Sage Nutri juicer?

 

Jez,

No need of apology. I simply see it as a matter of "horses for courses", and we are all different.

Nevin

.

[chris barlow]

In a recent post by Jez, Jez commented that he "macerate for 24 hours" and then a pectin gel appears on the top prior to fermentation

Now I take this to mean that once the apples have been milled he leaves it to sit in the buckets for a  day

Firstly, does this produce better tasting cider (depending on the desert fruit variety/I assume experimentation is needed)

secondly, is the pectin gel removed once it  appears?

 

Kind Regards

Chris

[richard marlborough]

my twopence worth

the point of using a juicer is that if you have less than 50kg of fruit, using a scratter & basket press will get you 20L of juice unless you want to sit there all night.(i don't)

you will get 35L with a juicer in minutes. you can't keep a scratter & press

 in your kitchen cupboard.

i want to get a massive press & a motorised shark but for those of us without a cider room & a budget of £50 it's not an option :)

rich

for people with one tree or some neghibour's apples

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[Trevor Appleton]

 

I like the idea of being able to also use the juicer in my kitchen for vegetable juices, as well as for 50-100 kg apples each autumn so it sounds for me the juicer is more appropriate.

Also found it bitterly cold using the vigo system outdoors in November, but the juicer will allow smaller batches if I store the  apples in my garage.

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[Ray Blockley]

My little home- and hand-made rack & cloth press cost me less than £50 back in the late 1990's - a lot less - and I had no cider-room, just a small kitchen (where it was warm and dry by the way). Much of the press was from re-cycled or scrounged materials; net-curtain press cloths were the cheapest from the local market. We used a small domestic Moulinex food-processor to "mill" the apples which we had to cut up to fit in the machine first, hence our first cider was called "Sore Finger cider"... All our apples were initially scrounged from roadsides and a neighbour or two. We made 60 litres of cider in a *good* year.

 

But it was great fun - making your own kit and experimenting /developing / improving has it's own momentum, and is great for the have-a-go hobbyist.

 

Don't assume that everyone starts off with a big scratter and press. There are many ways of starting off. No one's saying that one is better than the other. Well apart from one person that is...

 

Each to their own. Different strokes for different folks. But this Juice & Strain evangelicalism is like having the local Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door telling me where I've being going wrong for the past X-years and ramming their convictions down my throat.

 

Check your budget. Check what you can and can't do space-wise. Consider all options. Think where you want to be in a couple or so years time. Thank about the flexibility of the system you are envisaging - can it be developed? If making for your own consumption on a very small scale, the world is your oyster.

 

Just go ahead and do it.

 

Ray

 

 

[Jez Howat]

Chris,

 

I was just giving an example of other factors in producing cider – there are plenty of other reasons that a slower pressing makes for better cider.

 

To be honest it is a case of knowing your apples and how they behave – much more so for perry making except (for the pedants) replace apples with pears!

 

I get quite a few dessert apples quite early in the season – well before the cider fruit. By releasing pectin I am also binding up some nutrients (Andrew – do correct me if I am wrong!) which slows things down. I don’t think this should be confused with a chapeau brun for keeving – it isn’t that. I usually (if I get to it in time) scoop the pectin off… if you don’t it simply sinks back down and there is nothing gained or lost.

 

Does it produce better tasting cider? Well, the varieties produce a good acid and fruity base for my cider so yes, in that respect it does. It doesn’t make the cider any better in itself. Of course, for later apples, where macerating binds up tannins, it will change the character of the juice and change the taste – whether it is better is really dependant on knowing what you want to achieve (i.e. working knowledge of the apples/cider that you create).

 

Other reasons for rack and cloth include such things as contact time with the press. After a few years of use, the press builds up a stock of yeasts that transfer and help things along. Also, batch processing – I can wash half a ton of apples, mill half a ton and then work on the press in sessions. If I am pushed for time I can take on one of these tasks and then leave things for an afternoon or evening. All of this stuff I think affects what comes out as cider at the other end

 

There really is so much more to this cider making than just squishing apples!

 

All the best

 

Jez.

[richard marlborough]

hi jez

what apples do you usually use for your early season cider? do you blend any of it with cider apple juice later? for non-cider apples i've got katy, cox's orange pippin & egremont russet.

cheers

rich

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[Jez Howat]

Certainly both cox and Egremont but I have never used Katy. However, both of these are October harvesting so fit I nicely with the cider fruit.

 

I am thinking more of Laxtons Epicure and Beauty of Bath – that sort of thing. A few other old early varieties too.

 

I always blend early dessert fruit with later fruit – I cannot think it is that special on its own but does lay down a sharp base for the later juice (I like my cider to have a bit of tannin as well as a bite).

 

All the best

 

Jez

 

From: cider-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cider-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of richard marlborough

Sent: 04 September 2013 13:31
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com

[richard marlborough]

thanks

very helpful

rich