Perry clearing

[Claude Jolicoeur]

I have read that in general perries don't clear as easily as ciders
when the fermentation ends. And in effect I have a nice batch of perry
this year that doesn't seem to be on its way to clear itself... This
perry is 1/3 Thorn perry pear, 1/3 Golden Spice hybrid pear, and 1/3
normal eating European pear.

Do we know what are the reasons why perries don't clear as well as
ciders? Is it a question of pectin?

I will probably do some fining tests on small samples of this perry,
but before I start this, are there any fining agents that are known to
be more efficient in the case of perry? And how about pectinase, could
it work?

Thanks for any help...

Claude Jolicoeur

[Andrew Lea]

On 19/03/2013 19:09, Claude Jolicoeur wrote:
>
>
> Do we know what are the reasons why perries don't clear as well as
> ciders? Is it a question of pectin?

For UK and French and central European high tannin perry pears, the
problem is usually attributed to the pear 'tannin', which is a polymeric
procyanidin of much higher molecular weight than found in bittersweet
cider apples, and behaves very differently from the apple material,
especially as regards its property of dropping out of some perries (eg
Butt) in copious amounts.

However, this is unlikely to be the case with the varieties you mention.
Your problem is likely to be mostly carbohydrate in nature, but
complexed also with some tannin and protein. It won't be simple 'pectin'
as it often is in apples. The carbohydrate element in pears is complex
(eg the stone cells seem to be partly lignified cellulose) and even the
pectin chain in pears is acetylated not methylated as it is in apples,
not to mention its extensive neutral side chains such as arabinans.

All this is a very roundabout way of saying there is no simple
explanation for perry haze as there (sometimes) is for apples. It is
complex and of multiple origin depending on fruit type and maturity

>
> I will probably do some fining tests on small samples of this perry,
> but before I start this, are there any fining agents that are known to
> be more efficient in the case of perry? And how about pectinase, could
> it work?

As far as finings go, I think you will find that a polyelectrolyte like
Chitosan may be more effective than the more traditional agents
(gelatin, bentonite). Alternatively a two part co-precipitation fining
such as kieselsol-gelatin may work well. But as you know, trials are
essential!

As for pectinase, well you may be lucky but you are fighting both the
alcohol and the complexity of pear pectin / carbohydrate. If you were in
large scale commercial production I'd advise speaking to a process
enzymes specialist - they have cocktails designed especially to tackle
pears. Nowadays these issues for large producers are pretty much
circumvented by the magic of cross-flow ultrafiltration!

Sorry this doesn't really help - it just amplifies the picture a bit!

Andrew.


--
Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Andrew Lea wrote:
> As far as finings go, I think you will find that a polyelectrolyte like
> Chitosan may be more effective than the more traditional agents
> (gelatin, bentonite). Alternatively a two part co-precipitation fining
> such as kieselsol-gelatin may work well.  But as you know, trials are
> essential!

Thanks Andrew, this goes with what I had the intention of trying
first. I have had good success recently with some ciders that refused
to clear using Chitosan. It is also often used in tendem with
Kieselsol, with Kieselsol being used first, followed a day later by
the Chitosan.

Claude

[michael]

Claude,

           I have made different perries over a number of years(Oldfield,Teddington Green,Butt,Thorn)and have not had any that eventually did not clear naturally.Recently I have transferred some 2011 Oldfield perry from 30l plastic fermenter to glass demijohns,and it is pretty clear now.It finished fermenting (down to 1.006 because of the unfermentable sorbitol) in summer 2012,and it has taken another 9 months to clear.Some Butt of the same 2011 year is still dropping tannin but is almost clear.So I have realised that my perries take much longer than ciders (6-8months) to clear properly.As Andrew suggests you can hasten this process by selective additions,but I prefer to wait.

Michael

[J.B.Worcester UK]

     I found 2011 cider and perry extremely slow to clear especially noticeable following 2010 which I feel was a vintage year here.
               Wassail     J.B.

[vince wakefield]

Perry pears by Luckwill & Pollard  suggest gelatine on page 202 to help remove haze from blended perry,

“This will remove excess tannin and simplify filtration”

There is a lot more info there that might help if you can get hold of a copy.

 

Vince

[Claude Jolicoeur]

Vince, I do have my copy of it, and yes gelatin is one of the things I
want to try. I mostly wanted to know if some of you out there had
experience with the newer fining agents like Chitosan or Sparkalloid
on perries. Also, there are many new compounds based on silicium on
the market, like Kieselsol, Klebosol, Bevasil which is colloidal
silica... These are often used in tandem with gelatin or Chitosan, the
silica being - while the gelatin and chitosan are +.
Claude